Green Bow said:
Well, I think you need to spend a hell of a lot more to trounce a good quality pair of headphones ... .
Still, I hope you will like your BT3's for what they are, a compact (and according to various reviews, here and abroad) high quality powered compact speakers.
Vladimir said:
Good question! Desktop. Only ten minutes ago I bombed off downstairs and got some good foam. Fairly solid stuff and lots of air in it. I have put it under them. They are on my desktop. The foam has helped a little I am about to listen to see if it has increased bass. Rather than letting the audio energy of the bass drain into the wooden desk. (When putting my head under the desk it was booming somewhat and that has stopped.)
However overall the sound is changing significantly. Quite a lot of the chestyness has gone but some is still there. There are some nice tones coming. Acoustic (guitar type) stuff is pretty good. The soundstage is showing more. It was kind of jumbled initially. The overall inital sound reminded me exactly of what my Grado SR60 and SR125i sounded like when new from the box. Just stiff in every way, and kind of coarse.
I think I will wait until Monday before I form a complete critical opinon though. They are quite a way off being run-in. However two other issues holding back the audio, being my average DAC and the interconnect. I have a basic £1.99 off ebay 3.5mm to RCA from my Meridian Explorer DAC line-out. A quality cable is needed. (Possibly a Chord iChord or QED J2P.)
I can say though I still prefer my Grado SR225e hooked up to my DAC headphone socket at the moment.
Are usually the most accurate.
Running in over a few days might well make a small difference, but mostly it is you adjusting to the sound that they make.
Generally it is best to decouple the speakers from the desktop, I use Audio Engine stands, bur sometimes improvised arrangements can work well.
If you have any eq, try cutting the sub 100hz range, see what happens.
Running in over a few days might well make a small difference, but mostly it is you adjusting to the sound that they make.
Generally it is best to decouple the speakers from the desktop, I use Audio Engine stands, bur sometimes improvised arrangements can work well.
If you have any eq, try cutting the sub 100hz range, see what happens.
Also, as you probably know if you have read all those reviews you say, it has been mentioned that they have been voiced with a little warmth ie. upper bass lift. Quite normal for a small speaker intended for home use.
If that is a hurdle you can't overcome, perhaps try something like Vladimir's desktop active system which is about the same price. It will probably have a flatter response but not look as nice.
If that is a hurdle you can't overcome, perhaps try something like Vladimir's desktop active system which is about the same price. It will probably have a flatter response but not look as nice.
@drummerman
Many hahaha. Loved the comment about more cash needed to have trounced the 225e.
It's very difficult to really evaluate them now. They are changing hour by hour. There is potential. With the correct 3.5mm to RCA who knows.
@davedotco
I am a strong believer in burn-in. Short story. I bought some Grado SR60 ex-demo, and they were great from the start. A year later I bought some more SR60 brand new. Initially they were horrid, stiff, cold, hazy, and like 'I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy'. Ten hours later, I could hear real change. Eventually they became the tonally gorgeous Grado SR60 I knew. Exactly the same thing happened when I bought brand new SR125i. From sounding like cardboard to gorgeous lucious tones and wonderful detail.
The previous Grados prestige series took about 70 hours to get fully warm and in their stride. The e-series take the same but actually sound mostly run-in new. Mostly they bloom in the bass and pick up detail and finess, from burn-in.
These BT3 were propely hard sounding. I clean forgot about burn in because the only speakers I ever bought were all used. Anyway after my initial shock and shudder I remembered burn-in. Since being new I have run them lots and they are showing their character. I have definitely read and heard about new speakers needing time.
With my experience with Grado headphones I know what to expect when I think about it. Within the first hour they start to loose the brittleness. Within the first ten hours they start to show their character. At twenty-four hours they are 60% run-in. After that for the next forty-eight hours they just gain more beauty, character, and detail.
I will not sugar-coat it when I report what I think after the weekend.
Many hahaha. Loved the comment about more cash needed to have trounced the 225e.
It's very difficult to really evaluate them now. They are changing hour by hour. There is potential. With the correct 3.5mm to RCA who knows.
@davedotco
I am a strong believer in burn-in. Short story. I bought some Grado SR60 ex-demo, and they were great from the start. A year later I bought some more SR60 brand new. Initially they were horrid, stiff, cold, hazy, and like 'I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy'. Ten hours later, I could hear real change. Eventually they became the tonally gorgeous Grado SR60 I knew. Exactly the same thing happened when I bought brand new SR125i. From sounding like cardboard to gorgeous lucious tones and wonderful detail.
The previous Grados prestige series took about 70 hours to get fully warm and in their stride. The e-series take the same but actually sound mostly run-in new. Mostly they bloom in the bass and pick up detail and finess, from burn-in.
These BT3 were propely hard sounding. I clean forgot about burn in because the only speakers I ever bought were all used. Anyway after my initial shock and shudder I remembered burn-in. Since being new I have run them lots and they are showing their character. I have definitely read and heard about new speakers needing time.
With my experience with Grado headphones I know what to expect when I think about it. Within the first hour they start to loose the brittleness. Within the first ten hours they start to show their character. At twenty-four hours they are 60% run-in. After that for the next forty-eight hours they just gain more beauty, character, and detail.
I will not sugar-coat it when I report what I think after the weekend.
And I'm a strong believer in not puting speakers directly on the floor or the desk, and tweeters bellow ear height. Try lifting them on stacked books and sitting in equilateral triangle arrangement (same distance between you and the speakers).
There is a little more from them when you get stright in front. They are tipped up with a wedge under the front.
I looked at desktop speaker stands but have decided against because of the fear of knocking them over. Stacks of books I think maybe ot then. I am tussling with myself over this somewhat though, and thinking, "What have I got".
Placement is about equilateral. I noted on the What hi-fi review they said the BT3 can just get plonked down wherever they look about right. No need for measuring etc. It was one of my deciding factors when choosing.
(I was just listening to Katie Melua's Faraway Voice.)
EDIT: I know what you mean though about insulation, having owned Partington Dreadnought.
I looked at desktop speaker stands but have decided against because of the fear of knocking them over. Stacks of books I think maybe ot then. I am tussling with myself over this somewhat though, and thinking, "What have I got".
Placement is about equilateral. I noted on the What hi-fi review they said the BT3 can just get plonked down wherever they look about right. No need for measuring etc. It was one of my deciding factors when choosing.
(I was just listening to Katie Melua's Faraway Voice.)
EDIT: I know what you mean though about insulation, having owned Partington Dreadnought.
I am writing my impressions offline and it's almost complete. It's fair to say in the mean time that the BT3 have softened and improved.
I have posted a review here of the BT3.
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/q-acoustics-bt3-review
I think I will paste it in here also.
Q Acoustics BT3 Review
Q Acoustics BT3 Review
Equipment:
Source 16bit 44.1KHz FLAC files stored on computer.
DAC - Meridian Explorer
Cable - standard £2 3.5mm jack to phono RCA.
A smooth DAC and a not-pacey pair of BT3. I think I prefer faster audio kit, but anyway.... this is what I think.
Impressions No offensive buzzing when there is no music playing.
Even after being allowed to burn-in over for four days, they still seemed to have been softening in sound. Initially they were cold sounding and had a very small sound stage; both aspects of which changed. I absolutely hear my Meridian Explorer signature in them. I hear the same sort of slight congestion when the going gets tough.
In every way though my Grado SR225e seemed to be faster and more detailed. These headphones could comfortably pause and take a breath while the BT3 are doing their best. That doesn't mean that the SR225e had it all their own way though. The BT3 get close to the SR225e sometimes. Also because of the new presentation I hear details I missed in my headphones. The details are there in the headphones, but overlooked because other sounds are more forward.
An area where the 225e were winning was in bass response. Given the Grado Prestige Series are reputed as not bass heavy, this isn't good. This may be the fault of my cheap 3.5mm jack to RCA though. I can't confirm this until I buy a quality cable. However doing a little equalising and the BT3 make more sense. My music player allows me to EQ at 31HZ and 62Hz at the lower end. 31Hz had zero effect, meaning the BT3 have zero response at that frequency. However increasing just 3dB at 62Hz and the BT3 had a new lease of life. The lower sounds were all warmer and the overall signature seems normal.
I have settled with increasing 3dB at 50Hz in the Windows Control Panel thus eq-ing all sound from my PC. I had not forseen this bass lightness and to be honest the bass is quite weak without EQ. If this is the natural performance and not cable related, adding a source without EQ would be affected. For music as near field monitors, close up the music sounds good. They do fit the the function of desktop speakers. It took a while to adjust to them though.
Techno sounds surpisingly a little warm and pristine. Testing with Bellisima (DJ Quicksilver) and Seven Days One week (B.B.E.). There's a solidity and punch. Fading Like a Flower (Dancing DJs vs Roxette) fills your ears and messes with air pressure, which is good!
Abba Gold sounded a little digital and harsh sounding on my headphones. Sounds fairly normal on BT3. The best of Lang Lang pretty good representation. However lacking some bite.
The Best of Sade - Smooth jazz, which needs more clarity in the purcussive taps.
Hawkwind - Brainstorm (from Doremi Fasol Latido album) sounded much as I hoped. It was a little slow in timing and could have used more clarity but the album conveyed well.
PC Gaming For this use they are good speakers. Initially I much preferred my headhones. However after a couple of days burning-in I moved to the BT3 most of the time. I found it a more relaxing way to hear audio in games. They produce an audio experience which fills all available space in front so allowing for immersion. Only when absolute directional information of enemy placement is necessary will the headphones be better.
Watching DVD Again they do really well for this job. Watching content is easier with speakers that with headphones.
Upgrades. A quality 3.5mm jack to RCA (Hopefully this would fill out the bass, and increase speed and detail.) All reviews of five-star cables claim better detail so I am going to buy one. A quality length of speaker cable between the master and slave speaker should also make a good upgrade.
Final Impressions. I think the better deal was the Onkyo A9010 and the Q Acoustics 3020 currently on Richer Sounds at £315. It would have been my choice if two aspects had not changed my mind. I have no space for the amplifier. The 3020 are best 15cm from a rear wall and that moves the speakers forward. They would have been too close to the user on desktop.
I expected more from the BT3. However I think I can not expect too much given the weak interconnect between DAC and BT3. I know from experience that good quality cables make all the difference. A cable described as being fast and detailed would be ideal. Neither is the DAC really of exceptional quality. Having said this the BT3 are good speakers. The ground work is done, meaning with the weak cable, they are a reasonable package.
If a new 3.5mm to RCA cable adds the missing bass, then they will be great. However if not then the BT3 for me do not operate without EQ. They are too bass light and not a complete package.
At the moment they also have a very slight tendancy just occasionally to sound like their enclosures.
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/q-acoustics-bt3-review
I think I will paste it in here also.
Q Acoustics BT3 Review
Q Acoustics BT3 Review
Equipment:
Source 16bit 44.1KHz FLAC files stored on computer.
DAC - Meridian Explorer
Cable - standard £2 3.5mm jack to phono RCA.
A smooth DAC and a not-pacey pair of BT3. I think I prefer faster audio kit, but anyway.... this is what I think.
Impressions No offensive buzzing when there is no music playing.
Even after being allowed to burn-in over for four days, they still seemed to have been softening in sound. Initially they were cold sounding and had a very small sound stage; both aspects of which changed. I absolutely hear my Meridian Explorer signature in them. I hear the same sort of slight congestion when the going gets tough.
In every way though my Grado SR225e seemed to be faster and more detailed. These headphones could comfortably pause and take a breath while the BT3 are doing their best. That doesn't mean that the SR225e had it all their own way though. The BT3 get close to the SR225e sometimes. Also because of the new presentation I hear details I missed in my headphones. The details are there in the headphones, but overlooked because other sounds are more forward.
An area where the 225e were winning was in bass response. Given the Grado Prestige Series are reputed as not bass heavy, this isn't good. This may be the fault of my cheap 3.5mm jack to RCA though. I can't confirm this until I buy a quality cable. However doing a little equalising and the BT3 make more sense. My music player allows me to EQ at 31HZ and 62Hz at the lower end. 31Hz had zero effect, meaning the BT3 have zero response at that frequency. However increasing just 3dB at 62Hz and the BT3 had a new lease of life. The lower sounds were all warmer and the overall signature seems normal.
I have settled with increasing 3dB at 50Hz in the Windows Control Panel thus eq-ing all sound from my PC. I had not forseen this bass lightness and to be honest the bass is quite weak without EQ. If this is the natural performance and not cable related, adding a source without EQ would be affected. For music as near field monitors, close up the music sounds good. They do fit the the function of desktop speakers. It took a while to adjust to them though.
Techno sounds surpisingly a little warm and pristine. Testing with Bellisima (DJ Quicksilver) and Seven Days One week (B.B.E.). There's a solidity and punch. Fading Like a Flower (Dancing DJs vs Roxette) fills your ears and messes with air pressure, which is good!
Abba Gold sounded a little digital and harsh sounding on my headphones. Sounds fairly normal on BT3. The best of Lang Lang pretty good representation. However lacking some bite.
The Best of Sade - Smooth jazz, which needs more clarity in the purcussive taps.
Hawkwind - Brainstorm (from Doremi Fasol Latido album) sounded much as I hoped. It was a little slow in timing and could have used more clarity but the album conveyed well.
PC Gaming For this use they are good speakers. Initially I much preferred my headhones. However after a couple of days burning-in I moved to the BT3 most of the time. I found it a more relaxing way to hear audio in games. They produce an audio experience which fills all available space in front so allowing for immersion. Only when absolute directional information of enemy placement is necessary will the headphones be better.
Watching DVD Again they do really well for this job. Watching content is easier with speakers that with headphones.
Upgrades. A quality 3.5mm jack to RCA (Hopefully this would fill out the bass, and increase speed and detail.) All reviews of five-star cables claim better detail so I am going to buy one. A quality length of speaker cable between the master and slave speaker should also make a good upgrade.
Final Impressions. I think the better deal was the Onkyo A9010 and the Q Acoustics 3020 currently on Richer Sounds at £315. It would have been my choice if two aspects had not changed my mind. I have no space for the amplifier. The 3020 are best 15cm from a rear wall and that moves the speakers forward. They would have been too close to the user on desktop.
I expected more from the BT3. However I think I can not expect too much given the weak interconnect between DAC and BT3. I know from experience that good quality cables make all the difference. A cable described as being fast and detailed would be ideal. Neither is the DAC really of exceptional quality. Having said this the BT3 are good speakers. The ground work is done, meaning with the weak cable, they are a reasonable package.
If a new 3.5mm to RCA cable adds the missing bass, then they will be great. However if not then the BT3 for me do not operate without EQ. They are too bass light and not a complete package.
At the moment they also have a very slight tendancy just occasionally to sound like their enclosures.
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