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I am fed up

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Native_bon

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2008
180
2
18,595
amormusic said:
When I get a chance I’ll create a thread of really good hip hop artists/groups which are not commercial, don’t swear loads and you’ve probably never heard of.

There are some gems to be heard and I’m sure I could point you to some you’d like.
US3 a good example, love them. Rap & jazz and well recorded as well. BLUENOTE records.
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
jjbomber said:
MajorFubar said:
Oh that's old music and doesn't count. Ok fair enough, I'm racist.
I love Hendrix, as does everyone I know. It is impossible to imagine the whole blues/classic rock scene without him.
Agreed.

To put it in context, the comment was thrown at me on a music producers' facebook group. I rarely visit the group because it's too full of sixteen year olds who think they're Berry Gordy or Quincy Jones because they know how to make 'sick beats' from loops on a laptop, which they invariably rap over no doubt using their obligatory Blue Yeti USB mike. But I pop in now and again because sometimes I can help with questions about recording and production techniques, and also because among the dross that most people post up, there's sometimes something that makes me go wow.
 

Romulus

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2014
108
48
10,620
BigH said:
Romulus said:
And to all of you who pay a monthly £20 to Tidal, Spotify, Quobuz, Roon (glorified library where you pay for the privilege), why do it, is the SQ so different to CD? I went to HMV and bought myself various Cd's. They are mine to keep, SQ is good, I can read their lyrics and all other info and no nonsense of a direct debit to any one.
It's not the sound quality, it's more about discovering new music and you have so much variety, to get anything like that you would need a vaste library of cds. A lot I play I would not buy but I can play them the odd time. Problem is over the years have loads of cds her I now never ever play. Quite a few I only played a few times, so I wasted my money. You don't have to pay £20pm, in fact there are quite a few free services. WIthout streaming I would not know what to buy anyway. If people suggest music on here do you go out and buy the cd?
A lot of new music I obtain from Forums, discovered artists such as Diamanda Galas (you either like or dislike her music). As to storage of CDS no problem I have a component which rips Cds and stores them on the hard drive (2TB storage); so its an open road to buying Cds, from HMV, Amazon and any other outlets. After burn of Cds, I store them - but hey alot of my Cds are played in my Car Cd, funnily enough a lot of the Cds (not all) sound really good via my modest audio in my car. My wife often comments that she clearly hears all the seperate instruments over the speakers in the car, and a comment from her about audio is rare praise indeed! As to streaming I play internet Radio but don't have a clue how to 'stream' music. Does one own music from Streaming and is it always the dreaded direct debit payments for the privilege? At least with Cds its a one of payment and the CD is my to keep for ever..!
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
Romulus said:
Does one own music from Streaming
No. Not unless you've already purchased it as a download. Some streaming services are also vendors, like Apple Music, so if you've purchased the music, you do own it forever. But what most people call streaming is a free / subscription service to play music you haven't outright bought. It's like paying a subscription to access a record library with 20 million records, but you never literally own the records and the librarian can withdraw songs or complete albums off the shelves at any time for any reason, without notice. But equally, they're a brilliant way of accessing new music from your favourite artists, or discovering artists you haven't heard, without having to buy a CD you might not like.
Romulus said:
is it always the dreaded direct debit payments for the privilege?
Some are free. With free services, the facility is usually crippled in some niggling way to make you subscribe. E.g. you might not get acess to their full library, or you can only listen for a limited mount of time (Spotify once did this), and there are between-song adverts.
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
97
1
0
Romulus said:
BigH said:
Romulus said:
And to all of you who pay a monthly £20 to Tidal, Spotify, Quobuz, Roon (glorified library where you pay for the privilege), why do it, is the SQ so different to CD? I went to HMV and bought myself various Cd's. They are mine to keep, SQ is good, I can read their lyrics and all other info and no nonsense of a direct debit to any one.
It's not the sound quality, it's more about discovering new music and you have so much variety, to get anything like that you would need a vaste library of cds. A lot I play I would not buy but I can play them the odd time. Problem is over the years have loads of cds her I now never ever play. Quite a few I only played a few times, so I wasted my money. You don't have to pay £20pm, in fact there are quite a few free services. WIthout streaming I would not know what to buy anyway. If people suggest music on here do you go out and buy the cd?
A lot of new music I obtain from Forums, discovered artists such as Diamanda Galas (you either like or dislike her music). As to storage of CDS no problem I have a component which rips Cds and stores them on the hard drive (2TB storage); so its an open road to buying Cds, from HMV, Amazon and any other outlets. After burn of Cds, I store them - but hey alot of my Cds are played in my Car Cd, funnily enough a lot of the Cds (not all) sound really good via my modest audio in my car. My wife often comments that she clearly hears all the seperate instruments over the speakers in the car, and a comment from her about audio is rare praise indeed! As to streaming I play internet Radio but don't have a clue how to 'stream' music. Does one own music from Streaming and is it always the dreaded direct debit payments for the privilege? At least with Cds its a one of payment and the CD is my to keep for ever..!
I see what you mean about Diamanda Galas, good job I did not buy the cd. No you don't own the music, you just pay a monthly fee each month, depending which service you have, Spotify is £10 for premium. Yes I think direct direct, what's wrong with them? I never play internet radio I can play what I want. The real beauty of streaming is you have instant access to most music, even more obscure catalogues such as ECM are now on streaming services. So if I come across a group or artist then I can hear their albums, 90% I probably won't like. You can also find lots of similar artists if you do find one you like. Before buying music was a bit pot luck, maybe you hear a track on the radio or read a good review. That's why I eneded up with a load of cds I don't like. Some cds are quite expensive, I was looking at buying a few and they were around £14.
 

Romulus

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2014
108
48
10,620
MajorFubar said:
Romulus said:
Does one own music from Streaming
No. Not unless you've already purchased it as a download. Some streaming services are also vendors, like Apple Music, so if you've purchased the music, you do own it forever. But what most people call streaming is a free / subscription service to play music you haven't outright bought. It's like paying a subscription to access a record library with 20 million records, but you never literally own the records and the librarian can withdraw songs or complete albums off the shelves at any time for any reason, without notice. But equally, they're a brilliant way of accessing new music from your favourite artists, or discovering artists you haven't heard, without having to buy a CD you might not like.
Romulus said:
is it always the dreaded direct debit payments for the privilege?
Some are free. With free services, the facility is usually crippled in some niggling way to make you subscribe. E.g. you might not get acess to their full library, or you can only listen for a limited mount of time (Spotify once did this), and there are between-song adverts.
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, I am beginning to see the attraction of streaming for certain people. Nowadays when I buy Cds, I have already fully researched the CD on internet and Youtube. So I know majority of the time exactly whats on the CD, no suprises. I suppose with streaming one can obtain individual songs rather then having to obtain whole album, which is a system that can sort out the quality from the dire. Ofcourse there are music lovers who are totally into the whole album scene.

I notice you have AVI DM10 active system, I have auditioned them and was mighty impressed with their consistent sonic qualities across the board; a system which can handle most musical styles and genres.
 

Romulus

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2014
108
48
10,620
BigH said:
Romulus said:
BigH said:
Romulus said:
And to all of you who pay a monthly £20 to Tidal, Spotify, Quobuz, Roon (glorified library where you pay for the privilege), why do it, is the SQ so different to CD? I went to HMV and bought myself various Cd's. They are mine to keep, SQ is good, I can read their lyrics and all other info and no nonsense of a direct debit to any one.
It's not the sound quality, it's more about discovering new music and you have so much variety, to get anything like that you would need a vaste library of cds. A lot I play I would not buy but I can play them the odd time. Problem is over the years have loads of cds her I now never ever play. Quite a few I only played a few times, so I wasted my money. You don't have to pay £20pm, in fact there are quite a few free services. WIthout streaming I would not know what to buy anyway. If people suggest music on here do you go out and buy the cd?
A lot of new music I obtain from Forums, discovered artists such as Diamanda Galas (you either like or dislike her music). As to storage of CDS no problem I have a component which rips Cds and stores them on the hard drive (2TB storage); so its an open road to buying Cds, from HMV, Amazon and any other outlets. After burn of Cds, I store them - but hey alot of my Cds are played in my Car Cd, funnily enough a lot of the Cds (not all) sound really good via my modest audio in my car. My wife often comments that she clearly hears all the seperate instruments over the speakers in the car, and a comment from her about audio is rare praise indeed! As to streaming I play internet Radio but don't have a clue how to 'stream' music. Does one own music from Streaming and is it always the dreaded direct debit payments for the privilege? At least with Cds its a one of payment and the CD is my to keep for ever..!
I see what you mean about Diamanda Galas, good job I did not buy the cd. No you don't own the music, you just pay a monthly fee each month, depending which service you have, Spotify is £10 for premium. Yes I think direct direct, what's wrong with them? I never play internet radio I can play what I want. The real beauty of streaming is you have instant access to most music, even more obscure catalogues such as ECM are now on streaming services. So if I come across a group or artist then I can hear their albums, 90% I probably won't like. You can also find lots of similar artists if you do find one you like. Before buying music was a bit pot luck, maybe you hear a track on the radio or read a good review. That's why I eneded up with a load of cds I don't like. Some cds are quite expensive, I was looking at buying a few and they were around £14.
I can understand why you went into streaming and it works for you. With me all my music research is from forums, internet and youtube. So I can find out all important details about a cd before purchase. For me Cds were expensive few years ago, but not anymore, there are so many deals. Lately I bought four Cds all containing some gem classical music in one pack for a stupid sum of approx £6.00. I played the cds fearing maybe they are all poorly recorded with inferior conductors and borderline orchestras; but not at all, on the contrary the pack contained some very fine recordings. And I am finding this all the time with cds. I think thanks to streaming this lowered the price of Cds, competition in the music market and this suits me fine.
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
97
1
0
Romulus said:
I can understand why you went into streaming and it works for you. With me all my music research is from forums, internet and youtube. So I can find out all important details about a cd before purchase. For me Cds were expensive few years ago, but not anymore, there are so many deals. Lately I bought four Cds all containing some gem classical music in one pack for a stupid sum of approx £6.00. I played the cds fearing maybe they are all poorly recorded with inferior conductors and borderline orchestras; but not at all, on the contrary the pack contained some very fine recordings. And I am finding this all the time with cds. I think thanks to streaming this lowered the price of Cds, competition in the music market and this suits me fine.
You are partly right about cds, you can get 10 jazz albums for £10 in some collections, probably because out of copyright. Same for classical no doubt. But some less mainstream artists the cds can be around £12-£15. The other thing is often the cd has not been that well remastered, this happened a lot on 70s rock, some have been remastered much better recently, such as Led Zepp and Jethro Tull, others artists such as Bob Dylan it was around 2010 with the SACD remasters, Miles Davis Kind of Blue the Legacy Edition 2009 is said to be the best. So you can end up with a few versions of the same album. With streaming you can set up playlists, not that I'm into that but you can play other people's, good way of finding 2 music, found 2 new ones today. Tidal is now getting some 24 bit high-res albums if that is something that interests you. Problem with streaming is albums can disappear, had that with the Doors LA Woman, it's back again now, but some artists pull their albums, Neil Young did it. Some artists are not available.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
219
45
10,820
and if I like it, I download same from HD tracks if it is available. But I love how for 20 pounds a month on tidal, I get to try so much new. I would never dare to buy so many unknown albums from a store or online. Only if I think I can listen to a track repetitively I buy it . So the 20 pounds I spend on tidal actaully saves me money otherwise spent on experimenting
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
308
85
10,970
I’ve been using iTunes music it’s pretty good I’ve got a 3 months free and then it’s £10 a month but I feel the sites interface is better then tidals interface much cleaner no hip hop rubbish being prompted and the music quality sounds very good on iTunes
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
Romulus said:
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, I am beginning to see the attraction of streaming for certain people. Nowadays when I buy Cds, I have already fully researched the CD on internet and Youtube. So I know majority of the time exactly whats on the CD, no suprises. I suppose with streaming one can obtain individual songs rather then having to obtain whole album, which is a system that can sort out the quality from the dire. Ofcourse there are music lovers who are totally into the whole album scene.

I notice you have AVI DM10 active system, I have auditioned them and was mighty impressed with their consistent sonic qualities across the board; a system which can handle most musical styles and genres.
You're very welcome. Streaming for me is background music, or a way to introduce myself to new albums or new-to-me albums. It will be a long time before it replaces CDs and records for me. My brain is too wired into the old way of thinking where I buy a CD or an LP and it's mine forever, not until someone decides they don't want me to play it anymore, or they replace it with a different version. E.g.: try finding any of Phil Collins' 80s/90s studio albums on iTunes...they've all been replaced with the post-'15 remastered versions with the new cover art.
 

Romulus

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2014
108
48
10,620
MajorFubar said:
Romulus said:
Thank you for your comprehensive reply, I am beginning to see the attraction of streaming for certain people. Nowadays when I buy Cds, I have already fully researched the CD on internet and Youtube. So I know majority of the time exactly whats on the CD, no suprises. I suppose with streaming one can obtain individual songs rather then having to obtain whole album, which is a system that can sort out the quality from the dire. Ofcourse there are music lovers who are totally into the whole album scene.

I notice you have AVI DM10 active system, I have auditioned them and was mighty impressed with their consistent sonic qualities across the board; a system which can handle most musical styles and genres.
You're very welcome. Streaming for me is background music, or a way to introduce myself to new albums or new-to-me albums. It will be a long time before it replaces CDs and records for me. My brain is too wired into the old way of thinking where I buy a CD or an LP and it's mine forever, not until someone decides they don't want me to play it anymore, or they replace it with a different version. E.g.: try finding any of Phil Collins' 80s/90s studio albums on iTunes...they've all been replaced with the post-'15 remastered versions with the new cover art.
I think I have done streaming by looking up album cd on Amazon, which allows you to zero in on an album then scroll down the page and it will list exactly the songs on the album, then I can play a limited time of each song listening on earphones. This procedure is ideal for deciding whether I want to purchase the particular CD. As to 'remastered' recordings I know very little, maybe the original recordings is the best (for some tastes) as it is the least interfered with..?
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
Romulus said:
As to 'remastered' recordings I know very little, maybe the original recordings is the best (for some tastes) as it is the least interfered with..?
That's one of those things which easily fills a topic on its own. Technology exists to digitize old analog tapes better than 30-odd years ago, if you ignore for a second the likelyhood that the tapes have deteriorated over the decades (which is actually a significant factor). But too often, once they've created a new digital capture, they also can't resist effing-about with the EQ and using audio-compressors to raise the average volume in order to make old albums 'competitively loud' with modern recordings, sapping the original recordings' dynamics. Depending on your point of view, this kind of post-production butchery null-and-voids any advantage the potentially better capture might have had.
 

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
97
1
0
Romulus said:
I think I have done streaming by looking up album cd on Amazon, which allows you to zero in on an album then scroll down the page and it will list exactly the songs on the album, then I can play a limited time of each song listening on earphones. This procedure is ideal for deciding whether I want to purchase the particular CD. As to 'remastered' recordings I know very little, maybe the original recordings is the best (for some tastes) as it is the least interfered with..?
Yes some albums you can listen to 30 seconds of each or most tracks but not always, the less mainstream albums seem to be less available and is the first 30 secs really enough? But most who buy cds also do streaming, then you can play the albums several times to make sure you like it, as said you can get streaming free. Yes some are on youtube. Also when I do buy a cd I check out the best version, as I said earlier some were well remastered recently or were done for SACD, or you may want the most dynamic version, check on DRdatabase. A lot of the pre-digital recordings were poorly transferred to cd, even now vinyl is often better than the digital version. If you are really interested in an album then you may want to seek out some special remasters such MoFi. I agree in the last 20 years many remasteres are compressed for loudness.
 

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