• If you ever spot Spam (either in the forums, or received via forum direct message) please use the Report button at the bottom of each post to make sure a Moderator can handle it quickly. Thanks for your help in keeping things running smoothly!

I’ve been very bad boy and brought a Yamaha A-S3000

Page 10 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
7
18,795
Tonestar1 said:
They haven't wisely tested anything. All they have done is plug it in and been unable to recreate the issue.
+1

A shop sales person plugging it in for a few hours is not testing it. Unless it goes back to Yamaha to be properly checked or at the very least a suitably qualified and experienced electronics engineer it has not been properly tested.

This is why you should not accept the same amplifier back again and should demand either a brand new replacement or a refund.
 

jjbomber

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2006
715
238
19,270
CnoEvil said:
So far, I don't think the dealer has done much wrong.

They have taken the amp back, kept in contact with the OP and have wisely tested it for themselves. If they can find nothing wrong with it, then it's hard to justify sending it back to Yamaha.

It is imo premature to slag off the dealer.

Let's wait and see how this plays out.
Or they could have fixed the fault and are now pretending there was nothing wrong with it in the first place.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
1,637
84
19,770
Does the amp still have a current manufacturers warranty? If it does I would suggest you tell the seller to get Yamaha themselves to check it out or demand a replacement. You are legally within your rights to do so.

It doesn't matter how much of a discount the seller offered to secure the deal (that's down to them and Yamaha), if it isn't as described then Yamaha shouldn't hesitate in supplying a replacement.

When I first purchased the Pulse it had an earthing issue. I contacted Leema Acoustics and they repaired it immediately. No questions asked.

Yamaha Audio UK are in Milton Keynes.
 

chelstondave

New member
May 23, 2010
23
0
0
I bought an M-DAC from Sevenoaks, there was an occasional crackle. They took it back, tried it and found no problems. Wanted to send it back to me, I said no and they gave me a refund without question. I would advise you to say the same. I am sure that the dealer is reputable and have just bought a half-price Audiolab M-one from them as need to do a bit of downsizing
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
77
10,970
The Yamaha A-S3000 I brought is brand new and I didn’t get any discount and the last thing I wanted to do is slag of Audiovisual as they are just following there policy which they are in titled to follow .

It is correct that they are not engineers just salesman checking out the amplifier to see if the fault appears which it hasn’t done but Monday they will try a heavier load by using 4 ohm speakers and we will see if the fault appears then .

if things are still ok on Monday they obviously can’t send the amplifier back to Yamaha if no fault is found and that then leaves me with a choice have the amplifier back or cancel the order .

but the amplifier definitely had a fault with me which I can’t prove and seems strange to me it’s now working again and obviously makes me look stupid

so I will probably cancel the order on Monday as I’ve no trust in the amplifier that I sent them with a fault that seems to of disappeared and Audiovisual will not order a new Yamaha A-S3000 if there is nothing wrong with the one they have got which is understandable from there point of view but obviously not mine now .

so again I do not want to slag them of as they have given lots of emails and lots of phone calls but manly me phoning them but been ok to talk to and have there understanding but they just have to follow there policy in returns .
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
7
18,795
Blacksabbath25 said:
... It is correct that they are not engineers just salesman checking out the amplifier to see if the fault appears which it hasn’t done but Monday they will try a heavier load by using 4 ohm speakers and we will see if the fault appears then ...
Even if they try it with 4 ohm speakers this is not testing it properly. I'm not slagging of the shop here just stating a fact from a technical point of view.

Obviously the choice is yours but if I were in your shoes I would not accept the same amplifier back unless it had been properly checked by a qualiied engineer who actually works for Yamaha and I had written confirmation directly from Yamaha that it was functioning correctly. Anyhing less and I would demand a refund or replacement.

TBH I would probably just ask for a refund anyway. This is not being rude it just putting your own needs before the shops needs. £4000 it far to much to risk on something that might turn out to be a lemon later on down the line.
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
9
4,595
Can you visit the dealers Balck Sabbath and see if they are running the Yamaha off a power conditioner or some sort of spike protector.

Were you using anything similar when you tried at home.

Was it a stormy night with possible spikes in electrical mains.

I don't think it is moisture or cold start related.

Could be electrical. I have a electrical engineer on board, who looks after our electronic systems. Will check with him and see if he has any ideas
 

paulkebab

New member
Dec 26, 2014
66
0
0
my gut instinct is a power supply issue, which might contain one or more capacitors that can self-heal. If that has already happened an oscilloscope might pick up the faulty one but the store hasn't got that facility and no-one might tell the difference in normal listening conditions anyway. The dealer is in a no-win here as they cannot replicate the fault and they have to believe the customer. They have ordered a new one so it sounds like they will replace the amp, Yamaha engineers must know that this is an unusual fault but it definitely exists.I would only agree to have it back if it went directly to Yamaha for a full checkover, and possibly an extended warranty as a measure of good faith.

When my mains supply was low the MDAC did exactly the same thing at random, it was only when I noticed a very slow fan that I investigated further.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
As an ex dealer, I have seen such situations many times.

Customers bring back product with faults that we are unable to replicate in the shop, we would always try to play the unit there and then, in front of the customer if at all possible. In the case of an obvious, replicable fault, a new replacement would be supplied immediately or if out of stock, ordered in. Simple.

But in a surprisingly large percentage of cases the equipment would work perfectly, in such cases we would suggest that it is left running for a while and perhaps collected later or the next day. Most customers were comfortable with this, assuming, usually quite correctly, that they had not installed/connected the equipment correctly. They would take the item home, install it with a little extra care, and that would be the end of it.

Very, very occasionally it would be an actual intermittant fault, actually quite rare in decent equipment in my experience. Mostly it would be some form of installation issue, sometimes but really not that often, a 'rogue' faulty product.

This is what the dealer sees on a regular basis, 'finger trouble' is far and above the most common reason for new equipment issues, that is the reality for any dealer and it is the first thing that any compedent dealer will check out. Simply playing the item is the simplest, quickest way to do this, most genuine faults will be immediately apparent, you do not need a technician with test gear to do this.

That is the reality of the situation, the dealer does not know the customer and his experience tells him that it is most likely finger trouble, and it makes perfect sense to check this out first.
 

paulkebab

New member
Dec 26, 2014
66
0
0
I'm pretty sure that at this level, equipment gets a good 'soak test' before it leaves the factory to prove it. Not too long, or it won't smell new .. or maybe they spray it with 'NewSmell' ;)
 

newlash09

Well-known member
Aug 28, 2015
163
9
4,595
That it can't be because of a cold start. The inbuilt temp protection would trip the power, before anything awkward would happen.

And he says that the problem might be because of power supply quality, especially frequency mismatch, more than voltage.

Secondly he suggests that a capacitor or resistor could be over heating after a usage of 2 hrs and leading to shut down. And when the amp is switched off, this capacitor or resistor is cooling down, and thus enabling the next restart.

Both the above suggestions are generic as he doesn't know the exact details or construction of your amp.
 

davedotco

New member
Apr 24, 2013
20
0
0
paulkebab said:
I'm pretty sure that at this level, equipment gets a good 'soak test' before it leaves the factory to prove it. Not too long, or it won't smell new .. or maybe they spray it with 'NewSmell' ;)
Yes and no.

Testing procedures will vary but the manufacturer does not want to be dealing with loads of faulty product, so whatever is done will be pretty effective.

Back in the 80s, as a dealer, we would routinely check all electronics and some speakers prior to delivery/collection by the customer, this was normal, it was really checking for what, in effect, would be transit damage. This was stopped as many customers started to insist on 'factory sealed' units, understandable but perhaps not best practice.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
77
10,970
newlash09 said:
That it can't be because of a cold start. The inbuilt temp protection would trip the power, before anything awkward would happen.

And he says that the problem might be because of power supply quality, especially frequency mismatch, more than voltage.

Secondly he suggests that a capacitor or resistor could be over heating after a usage of 2 hrs and leading to shut down. And when the amp is switched off, this capacitor or resistor is cooling down, and thus enabling the next restart.

Both the above suggestions are generic as he doesn't know the exact details or construction of your amp.
thanks Newlash

The amplifier needs to go back to Yamaha really to get peace of mind as this would be the only way I would know for sure that the amplifier has no fault as it could be a number of things really .

they have had the amplifier running fine there end all day which I do not understand because it was definitely a dead amplifier when they took it back of me and I didn’t setup the amplifier in correctly as I have the Yamaha A-S2100 which is basically the same setup so it’s all a guess why it broke down for me and I do not use any mains equipment just the plugged straight into the wall .

And as for the weather it’s been really cold here with lots of snow and low temperatures but my house is warm .
 

Samd

Well-known member
Mar 6, 2013
153
46
18,620
Blacksabbath25 said:
newlash09 said:
That it can't be because of a cold start. The inbuilt temp protection would trip the power, before anything awkward would happen.

And he says that the problem might be because of power supply quality, especially frequency mismatch, more than voltage.

Secondly he suggests that a capacitor or resistor could be over heating after a usage of 2 hrs and leading to shut down. And when the amp is switched off, this capacitor or resistor is cooling down, and thus enabling the next restart.

Both the above suggestions are generic as he doesn't know the exact details or construction of your amp.
thanks Newlash

The amplifier needs to go back to Yamaha really to get peace of mind as this would be the only way I would know for sure that the amplifier has no fault as it could be a number of things really .

they have had the amplifier running fine there end all day which I do not understand because it was definitely a dead amplifier when they took it back of me and I didn’t setup the amplifier in correctly as I have the Yamaha A-S2100 which is basically the same setup so it’s all a guess why it broke down for me and I do not use any mains equipment just the plugged straight into the wall .

And as for the weather it’s been really cold here with lots of snow and low temperatures but my house is warm .
But warm air (your house) contains more water molecules than cooler air and that water may have condensed on the cold of the amp but has now dried out.

Sorry if this has been raised before - not followed thread - been frozen on hols in my caravan!
 

Gonepostal

Well-known member
Apr 26, 2014
51
12
10,545
Wow interesting read, I have to say that In this instance you should trust your gut instinct. After reading this thread mine would be telling me to get a refund and move on.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
77
10,970
bigfish786 said:
could it be those 4ohm speakers causing the problem? or is it something completely different?

i will definitely been interested to find out.

i did a bit of web trawling, and only found one other instance of this happening with the yam. nothing conclusive there.
the Yamaha A-S3000 will go down to a 2ohm load so 4ohm shouldn’t be a problem
 

bigfish786

Moderator
Jan 29, 2013
258
83
18,970
could it be those 4ohm speakers causing the problem? or is it something completely different?

i will definitely be interested to find out.

i did a bit of web trawling, and only found one other instance of this happening with the yam. nothing conclusive there.
 

Blacksabbath25

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2015
289
77
10,970
drummerman said:
Gonepostal said:
Wow interesting read, I have to say that In this instance you should trust your gut instinct. After reading this thread mine would be telling me to get a refund and move on.
they

Why?

Because almost everyone here is making a meal of a situation that only just arised?

The boys and girls from the dealership collected the amp and ordered a new one from Yamaha.

What else do you want have done?

I'd very much dislike being a dealer selling to you lot :)

(Sorry Rick)
they haven’t ordered a new amplifier now because the old one is working again
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Gonepostal said:
Wow interesting read, I have to say that In this instance you should trust your gut instinct. After reading this thread mine would be telling me to get a refund and move on.
Why?

Because almost everyone here is making a meal of a situation that only just arised?

The boys and girls from the dealership collected the amp and ordered a new one from Yamaha.

What else do you want have done?

I'd very much dislike being a dealer selling to you lot :)

(Sorry Rick)

I would agree about cancelling the Credit Agreement but only because I wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy Hifi on HP.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
1
0
Blacksabbath25 said:
drummerman said:
Gonepostal said:
Wow interesting read, I have to say that In this instance you should trust your gut instinct. After reading this thread mine would be telling me to get a refund and move on.
they

Why?

Because almost everyone here is making a meal of a situation that only just arised?

The boys and girls from the dealership collected the amp and ordered a new one from Yamaha.

What else do you want have done?

I'd very much dislike being a dealer selling to you lot :)

(Sorry Rick)
they haven’t ordered a new amplifier now because the old one is working again
???? This thread is moving to fast, can't keep up.

How can all these things happen over the w/end? Are they open 24/7?

I thought you said they have ordered a new one ... . So, they have now cancelled the order?

I am leaving this thread :)
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts