how important is clean power...really ?!?

[bass-boy68]

hi guys , im interested to hear any thoughts on the usage of power conditioners and power cables for home theatre and hi-fi setups...I use a few decent power cables but am mindful of for me at least , large outlays of cash for small percentage gains in performance . i try to keep it proportional in respect to cost of equipment to cable ratio. I have read and heard that one should accomadate 10% to 20% of total costs towards cabling...I have equipment that im thinking of adding a better power cable to inhance PQ performance.

cheers guys :cheers:

 

[RickyDeg]

Good topic!

I'd say it greatly depends on ones equipment and/or how "dirty" the powersupply is. It can differ a great deal from system to system, from home to home. But in essence I'll just say this for my system; I could not do without the excellent ISOTEK EVO3 SIRIUS and ISOTEK OPTIMUM power cable. The combo have lowered the noisefloor and brought new levels of clarity. Plus the 6 sockets benifit all my a/v components. When switching back to a "normal" powerstrip with standard cables thats when I truly notice the difference - it sounds more "grainy" and less "vivid". Yes, it might be subtle, but at this level even small nuances of improvements can be worth the money.

A good friend of mine who have similar electronics borrowed my ISOTEK gear over a weekend to laborate, and I was there when he connected it up. We didn't notice the kind of improvements that were evident at my place. He lives in a house with his own powersupply, I live in an apartment building sharing powersupply with 11 other residents. In this case that might have been part of the reason? You just don't know for sure.

People who automatically write off cables and power conditioning equipment as 'snake oil' have simply not experienced differences first hand. I'd still say its important to have a level head about this sort of accessory, and definitely try at home before buying!

 

[relocated]

I have had excellent results in the past with specific power cables and blocks. My mains is now excellent, as the up a big pole step down transformer is a little behind my house and I'm first in line for the power but I still use the gear just in case it helps a tiny amount.

First step for many people is to have an electrician put in a dedicated spur/loop for the audio/video and is probably the most cost effective. Don't use conditioners on power amps is the general consensus.

Money invested in good quality actives would probably cure you of cable worries.

 

[ellisdj]

Tacima CS929 worth every penny of £25 you can get them for - don't see need to spend any more very good product

 

[chudleighpaul]

Tacima CS929 worth every penny of £25 you can get them for - don't see need to spend any more very good product

+1

Spend any more and it is a waste of money.

 

[relocated]

So Bass etc.,

Have you read any of the replies to your post because you haven't had the good grace to acknowledge any of them? It would be nice to know whether you and WE have wasted our time. :shame:

 

[cheeseboy]

if your mains power is that bad, then surely getting a ups which smooths out the mains and properly conditions it is going to do a lot more wonders, and protect your kit, over expensive mains cables.

 

[cheeseboy]

if your mains power is that bad, then surely getting a ups which smooths out the mains and properly conditions it is going to do a lot more wonders, and protect your kit, over expensive mains cables.

 

[Chewy]

if your mains power is that bad, then surely getting a ups which smooths out the mains and properly conditions it is going to do a lot more wonders, and protect your kit, over expensive mains cables.

Agreed! If you are going to go down the route of investing quite a bit of cash in mains cleaning products from the likes of Isotek, then a mains regenerator is the better option. A mains filter is a half-fix of the problem, whereas a regenerator will at least give you a pure and perfect AC sinewave free from all distortion or interference.

These units are excellent value for money, have similar specs to the so called 'audiophile' models from PS Audio etc, and a decent amount of available current output to support power amps also:

http://upsmart.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=98_99&products_id=1742

 

[cheeseboy]

yep, even a cheap model like this http://www.ebuyer.com/81906-apc-sc420i-smart-ups-420va-260w-serial-with-shutdown-software-sc420i at 115 quid has auto voltage regulation so keeps the voltage steady.

Cheaper than a couple of "audiophile" mains cables...

 

[Chewy]

yep, even a cheap model like this http://www.ebuyer.com/81906-apc-sc420i-smart-ups-420va-260w-serial-with-shutdown-software-sc420i at 115 quid has auto voltage regulation so keeps the voltage steady.

Cheaper than a couple of "audiophile" mains cables...

That model would be fine for protecting your system, but I don't think it would do much for mains noise and interference, its still a direct connection to the mains supply with some voltage filtering - but as you say, it would probably do more than your average power cord upgrade.

The point with a mains regerator is that the incoming mains AC feed is converted to DC, and then back again into AC in a perfect AC wave form. All mains noise, voltage and wave form irregularities are inherently removed by the very nature of the two conversion steps.

Some higher spec UPS units do this as standard, but they tend to be a bit big and noisy.

 

[jaxwired]

I agree with "The Audio Critic":Just about all that needs to be said on

this subject has been said by Bryston in

their owner’s manuals:

“All Bryston amplifiers contain

high-quality, dedicated circuitry in the

power supplies to reject RF, line spikes

and other power-line problems. Bryston

power amplifiers do not require specialized

power line conditioners. Plug the

amplifier directly into its own wall

socket.”

What they don’t say is that the same

is true, more or less, of all well-designed

amplifiers. They may not all be the Brystons’

equal in regulation and PSRR, but

if they are any good they can be plugged

directly into a wall socket. If you can afford

a fancy power conditioner you can

also afford a well-designed amplifier, in

which case you don’t need the fancy

power conditioner. It will do absolutely

nothing for you. (Please note that we

aren’t talking about surge-protected

power strips for computer equipment.

They cost a lot less than a Tice Audio

magic box, and computers with their peripherals

are electrically more vulnerable

than decent audio equipment.)

The biggest and stupidest lie of

them all on the subject of “clean” power

is that you need a specially designed

high-priced line cord to obtain the best

possible sound. Any line cord rated to

handle domestic ac voltages and currents

will perform like any other. Ultrahigh-

end line cords are a fraud. Your

audio circuits don’t know, and don’t

care, what’s on the ac side of the power

transformer. All they’re interested in is

the dc voltages they need. Think about

it. Does your car care about the hose

you filled the tank with?

 

[AlmaataKZ]

+1 to Jax (and Bryston and Audiocritic).

 

[Chewy]

+1 to Jax (and Bryston and Audiocritic).

I don't disagree with either of you guys - I sit on the fence on this one, but if someone is going to spend money on mains conditioning, they are better off with a regenerator than expensive mains cables and conditioners.

I have to say though using Bryston as an example against mains conditioning may not be the best choice given that the company makes three of their own units?!:

http://bryston.com/products/other/BIT15.html

 

[wireman]

I have to say though using Bryston as an example against mains conditioning may not be the best choice given that the company makes three of their own units?!

Yes, it's funny how Bryston have spent their entire lives ridiculing the idea that any form of power conditioner could in any way make any difference whatsoever... until they want to market a range themselves (or rather to buy them in from a third party and put their own faceplate and price-tag on it!)! There'll undoubtedly be Bryston Mains Cables to follow shortly...

 

[Paul.]

Not all countries have a nice stable grid like we do in the uk. It's understandable that ups and what not are popular in certain areas of the US where they suffer huge fluctuations and brown-outs.

 

[Paul.]

So Bass etc.,

Have you read any of the replies to your post because you haven't had the good grace to acknowledge any of them? It would be nice to know whether you and WE have wasted our time. :shame:

Well they are hardly going to want to come back to snippy little comments like that are they?

 

[Anonymous]

Keeping it clean here in Australia is often scoffed at, and I was guilty of doing it for years.

Since installing a Thor PS10 Smart Power Station into my system I no longer worry about the damage that could be done to it by the grid supply.

I have found that the PS10 has improved the results I get from my equipment; in particular the turntable side of my system, it definately sounds better.

Even if its a illusion, it works for me.......

 

[RickyDeg]

Not all countries have a nice stable grid like we do in the uk. It's understandable that ups and what not are popular in certain areas of the US where they suffer huge fluctuations and brown-outs.

+1 (well said!)

In my country we do have a fairly stable grid, I have to say. That doesn't mean that when living in an apartment building (such as mine) where I have to share powersupply with several other residents and their household electronics it gonna be 100% "clean" and "stable" all day/night.

Personally I would glady have considered a regenerator (as some of you mentioned earlier) if I had known those even existed prior to testing Isotek in my system and noticed the improvements it made. I would never recommend anyone purchased any of this stuff without testing at home first.

 

[bass-boy68]

:clap: Dude!!!?? "the good grace"? , i believe the question asked has invited proactive discussion which I myself have been very enlightened by , ive been in hospital with a heart condition and have had success with surgery , thanks to all who have engaged in the forum and cheers Paul :wave: , Arohanui ( Love and best wish's ) from Aotearoa ( New Zealand ) :clap:

 

[Vizzage]

Yes but you could have sent a short message from theatre before you went under. Congrats on the successful surgery

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Not all countries have a nice stable grid like we do in the uk. It's understandable that ups and what not are popular in certain areas of the US where they suffer huge fluctuations and brown-outs.

Darned right on that one. Here in Houston half the domestic mains supplies are still provided by cables on poles with "pot" transformers up the poles as well. Houston, notable for its humidity and thunderstorms, has a HORRIBLE mains supply as a result. All the electronics in our hose have at least a surge protector in the circuit and my PC runs off a UPS just in case. Serously thinking about having "clean" AC circuits run off a central inverter in the garage built into the house when we move.

 

[aliEnRIK]

I agree with "The Audio Critic":

Just about all that needs to be said on

this subject has been said by Bryston in

their owner’s manuals:

“All Bryston amplifiers contain

high-quality, dedicated circuitry in the

power supplies to reject RF, line spikes

and other power-line problems. Bryston

power amplifiers do not require specialized

power line conditioners.

The sheer fact that Bryston bother to have any RF Rejection at all built into their amps goes a along way to explain just how important it can be.
I also note they recommend plugging the amp direct into the wall socket. I pretty much agree.

 

[aliEnRIK]

OP :

There are a lot of ways and 'claimed' ways that the mains can be cleaned up. Personally I use a balanced mains transformer.

With regards to mains cables, unless theres something fancy in them, then there are 2 main types. Ones that stop radio waves getting into the cable via shielding around it. And the 'braided' type which reject RFI thats in the mains to begin with.
Obviously its down to how much RFI is in the mains and in the air. But I personally much prefer the braided type, and the more 'braids' the better the rejection.
I dont like the braided interconnects and speaker cables though as once RFI is out of the system then you should only shield the cable from outside sources.
I do recommend a Tacima mains conditioning block for the low wattage devices too (CD and DVD player)

 

[ellisdj]

I had a comment previously that a tacima cs929 was all you needed.

This is false

I have a isotek titan powering my power amp and its significantly better. Its cost about a 1000 times as much but its doing a much better job in this role.

I would say a tacima is not ideal for high current high power scenario. Its better than nothing but not ideal

I plan to try more isotek products to see if they better the tacima as.well