Horlicks hour, ot three . . . ?

[CJSF]

Mate, have you considered that you may be running up against the limitations of your arm and turntable with the Dynavector?

Yes, and discussed it with the 'Rega Guru' at Infidelity . . . There is more to come but yes, it has to be watched carefully, we are at the top end of what is financially practical at this level. If the M2 Blue can track down to 32hz, in my set up, so should a Dyno 20x, if it cant . . . ? It may be the Croft Amps phono stage, M2's mm has twice the output of the Dyno 20xH mc . . . ? Be interesting to see how the 'Grado Reference 1' copes at 32hz with a similar out put of 5mv to the M2?

The 20x is doing a good job other than the extreme base end. I have to say, I dont expect to go to 32hz very often, (only when I put that particular recording on in fact) . . . If you had queried the LB1 speakers capability at this frequency level, I might more readily agree . . . however, no one told the LB1's they ain't supposed to go down there . . . :shhh:

I will always push the envelope if I can, its my nature, I was a racer as a younger man! . . . M2 Blue v 20x is one of those underdog type pushes???

CJSF

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You mentioned the Ortofon Blue had better bass, and it was that which made me wonder, since it can't then be a speaker-related issue.

 

[CJSF]

You mentioned the Ortofon Blue had better bass, and it was that which made me wonder, since it can't then be a speaker-related issue.

That right, the speakers are working way beyond expectations and superbly well IMHO. It cant be an arm RB700/TTP5 issue either, as the 2M Blue does the base end with ease . . . therefor its either a cartridge of amp limitation? Work in progress . . .

Try a low out put 20x2 through a MC step up transformer giving 5-6mv, if the Dynovector still fluffs the 32hz its not the amp. Try the Grado Master 1 and the Grado Platinum 1 . . . :? I think the 'Platinum' might be a dark horse in this scenario? If they both do the 32hz, the finger points at the Dynovector? Bringing up the rear in all this are ClearAudio and of course the Benz ACE . . . ? to be auditioned with said 32hz Organ pipe recording on Infidelities site with the Dynovector 20x2'Low output version' connected to my T5 Ortofon MC transformers.

CJSF

 

[altruistic.lemon]

To get the best out of the Dyna you maybe need a better arm and deck. The Ortofon is working within the limitations of your equipment, the Dyna is being limited by that.

 

[CJSF]

To get the best out of the Dyna you maybe need a better arm and deck. The Ortofon is working within the limitations of your equipment, the Dyna is being limited by that.

. . . . :? ??????

 

[chebby]

To get the best out of the Dyna you maybe need a better arm and deck. The Ortofon is working within the limitations of your equipment, the Dyna is being limited by that.

. . . . :? ??????

I understand alt.lemon's point perfectly.

It is about achieving the best balance or (grits teeth) 'synergy'. In other (better) words; a 'whole' that is better than the sum of it's parts.

Caterham cars make one or two versions of their minimalist sports cars that can beat quite a few very expensive supercars around a track for a small fraction of a supercar price. They do this with quite small and quite humble Ford engines that are little different to those found in average family saloons.

You are doing the equivalent (with your Rega) of trying to jam a huge Aston Martin engine into a Caterham and it is frustrating you why some £500 cartridges (2M Black and the Dynavector) are still being outperformed (in some important regards) by your 'humble' Ortofon 2M Blue.

To solve this problem you are considering putting an even more exotic cartridge ('engine') into the P5 rather than enjoying one that mostly works to your turntable's strengths and doesn't emphasise it's weaknesses too much.

 

[plastic penguin]

You mentioned the Ortofon Blue had better bass, and it was that which made me wonder, since it can't then be a speaker-related issue.

That right, the speakers are working way beyond expectations and superbly well IMHO. It cant be an arm RB700/TTP5 issue either, as the 2M Blue does the base end with ease . . . therefor its either a cartridge of amp limitation? Work in progress . . .

Try a low out put 20x2 through a MC step up transformer giving 5-6mv, if the Dynovector still fluffs the 32hz its not the amp. Try the Grado Master 1 and the Grado Platinum 1 . . . :? I think the 'Platinum' might be a dark horse in this scenario? If they both do the 32hz, the finger points at the Dynovector? Bringing up the rear in all this are ClearAudio and of course the Benz ACE . . . ? to be auditioned with said 32hz Organ pipe recording on Infidelities site with the Dynovector 20x2'Low output version' connected to my T5 Ortofon MC transformers.

CJSF

When's half time?

 

[CJSF]

To get the best out of the Dyna you maybe need a better arm and deck. The Ortofon is working within the limitations of your equipment, the Dyna is being limited by that.

. . . . :? ??????

I understand alt.lemon's point perfectly.

It is about achieving the best balance or (grits teeth) 'synergy'. In other (better) words; a 'whole' that is better than the sum of it's parts.

Caterham cars make one or two versions of their minimalist sports cars that can beat quite a few very expensive supercars around a track for a small fraction of a supercar price. They do this with quite small and quite humble Ford engines that are little different to those found in average family saloons.

You are doing the equivalent (with your Rega) of trying to jam a huge Aston Martin engine into a Caterham and it is frustrating you why some £500 cartridges (2M Black and the Dynavector) are still being outperformed (in some important regards) by your 'humble' Ortofon 2M Blue.

To solve this problem you are considering putting an even more exotic cartridge ('engine') into the P5 rather than enjoying one that mostly works to your turntable's strengths and doesn't emphasise it's weaknesses too much.

That makes sense Chebby . . . The problem with the Ortofons, they are dry, the Black is analytical and dry, the Blue just erring towards dry. You will note in post #12, I mention the 'Grado Platinum 1' as the dark horse in the pack? . . . By all accounts its not dry, its smooth and musical, gentle in the top, a bit of a charmer . . . :? Using the car analogy, I'd rather ride in an Aston Martin than a Ferrari . . .

Certainly the Blue, despite its rough edges, is the best cartridge apart from being on the cool (dry) side, it saw off the Sumiko, on a £ for £ basis.

However, shoe horn jobs can be successfully don to good advantage, as I said, I was a racer in a previous life and achieved very notable success with a bit of thought and sideways thinking, no budget, leave the opposition standing, because I though sideways about the problems, got my sideways hat on at this moment. Same in the 80's, achieving an acknowledged, 'almost' universal mass damping system, that, to that point, was deemed unworkable by the biggest names in the industry.

Just had a thought, I applied my sideways thinking to damping the ISO GT2 sub platter as it works now . . . same as the 80's we used to extract performance, especially at the base frequency end, from the most unlikely stand mounted speakers . . . :O

So its powder dry, watch this space . . . in the meantime, enjoy your music . . . CJSF