HiFi - Imagination, Exaggeration and Colouration?

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davedotco said:
Central american jaguar, almost but not quite a leopard, very hard to find but we might get lucky...*unknw*

Running into a Jaguar is not my idea of getting lucky.
 
Ajani said:
davedotco said:
Central american jaguar, almost but not quite a leopard, very hard to find but we might get lucky...*unknw*

Running into a Jaguar is not my idea of getting lucky.

Hence the enthusiasm for remote control cameras....*good*

Some years ago we spent most of a week tracking tiger in nothern India, no luck whatsoever but we woke up one morning to a full grown male sitting on the rocks just outside our bungalow. By the time I fetched the camera, he was gone...*sorry2*
 
ID. said:
Much of the discussion can only be theoretical, even by those interested in the science because we don't have access to the data and don't have the capability to test in ways that may be revealing.

*good*

Yep, the only research or measurements most of us can use is the published research by Dr Toole, Sean Olive, John Atkinson etc... I don't have access to proper DBT facilities and an anechoic chamber, nor would most audiophiles...

ID. said:
With speaker technology I believe we're at a near enough is good enough stage and there just isn't the commercial incentive to fund R&D to a level closer to perfection, if it is even possible. We're a pretty niche market.

Only large rich groups like Harman can afford to fund it. However, even those who can fund it, may just not care to do so. If you can sell products by using trial and error or making minor tweaks to old designs, then what's the incentive to invest in heavy R&D?
 
davedotco said:
Actually quite busy getting my **** together for a trip to cental america, Costa Rica/Nicaraguar. Spent much of today programming the iPad and cameras to allow remote shooting in the faint hope of getting photos of this...

jaguar_web_20938.jpg


Central american jaguar, almost but not quite a leopard, very hard to find but we might get lucky...*unknw*

Easy to find if you just ask the nearest American dentist.
 
chebby said:
davedotco said:
Actually quite busy getting my **** together for a trip to cental america, Costa Rica/Nicaraguar. Spent much of today programming the iPad and cameras to allow remote shooting in the faint hope of getting photos of this...

Central american jaguar, almost but not quite a leopard, very hard to find but we might get lucky...*unknw*

Easy to find if you just ask the nearest American dentist.

I never liked dentists....*bad*

The jaguars are protected, even from the septics, fair few about but like leopards they are largely tree dwellers so pretty hard to see. One factor in our favour is that some of the forest is 'dry' rather than 'rain' forest, better visability.
 
davedotco said:
Actually quite busy getting my **** together for a trip to cental america, Costa Rica/Nicaraguar. Spent much of today programming the iPad and cameras to allow remote shooting in the faint hope of getting photos of this...

Sounds like a great trip Dave. You mustn't stint on the kit.

This is essential:

419%2BiwGzTYL._SX315_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


I'd also splash out on a pair of Swarowski EL 8.5x42:

img_346.jpg
 
Is apparently pretty spectacular, we have some guides downloaded to Mrs DDC's iPad but any suggestions are appreciated.

The new Swarovski binoculars look pretty impressive but at £2k+ a pair I think we will have to stick with our old Bushnell 8 x 42s.

These are getting on a bit and 'original' japanese built models from the early 90s. One service due to a mild lubricant 'leak' but otherwise pretty good. No match for the Swarovskis but better than most modern designs under £300-400. Tough too, they have been everywhere, from the Himalayas to the Kruger, safari land rovers to dive boats.

Anyway our new toys for this trip is a DSLR with wi-fi remote control, enabling us to pre-place the camera then observe, focus, adjust exposure etc all from the iPad.
 
davedotco said:
Is apparently pretty spectacular, we have some guides downloaded to Mrs DDC's iPad but any suggestions are appreciated.

We had Costa Rica booked in 2011 but had to cancel because Mrs49 got promoted. Still itching to do it.

davedotco said:
Anyway our new toys for this trip is a DSLR with wi-fi remote control, enabling us to pre-place the camera then observe, focus, adjust exposure etc all from the iPad.

The wi-fi remote thing is excellent. I have a Canon that does it. My other indulgence was one of these:

Canon-EF-400mm-f-5.6-L-USM-Lens.jpg


A bit of a nuisance to lug about, but in good light it means you can do stuff like this:

24174719265_bf068e4f80_k.jpg
 
Photography wise I am somewhat behind the times, I still have a brace of motor drive Nikons with proper lenses ranging from 28 to 500mm.

All in all about as much use as a chocolate teapot, though worth slightly less...!
 
Bradley747 said:
can someone with some authority around here step in and close this topic down as a score draw?

Why? All we need is 12 more posts about cameras and we'll hit 300 posts.
 
Covenanter said:
Vladimir said:

Yep have read that.

Chris

It is very misleading. Redbook specifies 0dBFS as 2Vrms for a CD player. That is the absolute maximum that the player can produce. Analogue levels are usually quoted assuming some (often significant) headroom in the system. The 500mV for the tuner is not directly comparable to 2V for the CD player.
 
Covenanter said:
Vladimir said:

Yep have read that.

Chris

It is very misleading. Redbook specifies 0dBFS as 2Vrms for a CD player. That is the absolute maximum that the player can produce. Analogue levels are usually quoted assuming some (often significant) headroom in the system. The 500mV for the tuner is not directly comparable to 2V for the CD player.
 
andyjm said:
Covenanter said:
Vladimir said:

Yep have read that.

Chris

It is very misleading. Redbook specifies 0dBFS as 2Vrms for a CD player. That is the absolute maximum that the player can produce. Analogue levels are usually quoted assuming some (often significant) headroom in the system. The 500mV for the tuner is not directly comparable to 2V for the CD player.

So the 500mV output of the Tuner will not make the amp give it's maximum specified output at a certain quoted THD?
 
I still believe a system for around £2000 with out a turnatable would sound "90-95%" as good as what is possible, in other words we have reached the freshold where it drops off exponentially, but others again may disagree at where this threshold point is where the system can sound around "90-95%" as good as what is possible, surely most people must agree that a system for a few thousand will sound around the same as a much more expensive system in the £20,000 range, there really is so much hype connected to hi-fi and I am sure the high end manufacturers love this so that they can just up there price and then "say !!" its "better sound quality as you get what you pay for !!" (Also most will probably not sound as good), would be interesting what the reviewers here on what hi-fi think regarding where they think the threshold point is as stated above, also I believe in blind tests to give the most accurate results
 
Snooker said:
I still believe a system for around £2000 with out a turnatable would sound "90-95%" as good as what is possible ...

Really?

That is quite some percentage.

You must have extensive experience of expensive hifi systems.
 
Snooker said:
I still believe a system for around £2000 with out a turnatable would sound "90-95%" as good as what is possible, in other words we have reached the freshold where it drops off exponentially, but others again may disagree at where this threshold point is where the system can sound around "90-95%" as good as what is possible, surely most people must agree that a system for a few thousand will sound around the same as a much more expensive system in the £20,000 range, there really is so much hype connected to hi-fi and I am sure the high end manufacturers love this so that they can just up there price and then "say !!" its "better sound quality as you get what you pay for !!" (Also most will probably not sound as good), would be interesting what the reviewers here on what hi-fi think regarding where they think the threshold point is as stated above, also I believe in blind tests to give the most accurate results

Sounds like you have listened to budget systems. Lots of systems sound good until you hear something better. I agree sometimes you have to spend quite a bit more money. I have a theory about 90% of systems are mismatched, so how do you know? I agree a lot of expensive gear is over priced.
 
Snooker said:
I still believe a system for around £2000 with out a turnatable would sound "90-95%" as good as what is possible, in other words we have reached the freshold where it drops off exponentially, but others again may disagree at where this threshold point is where the system can sound around "90-95%" as good as what is possible, surely most people must agree that a system for a few thousand will sound around the same as a much more expensive system in the £20,000 range...
Definitely not. In my opinion.

there really is so much hype connected to hi-fi and I am sure the high end manufacturers love this so that they can just up there price and then "say !!" its "better sound quality as you get what you pay for !!"
There's hype wherever there is money to be made, regardless of the industry. You do generally get what you pay for, it's just down to whether the buyer thinks the extra is worth it - and personal preference, of course.

also I believe in blind tests to give the most accurate results
Agreed, but spending time with a product in a familiar environment with a familiar system shouldn't be ignored.
 
David@FrankHarvey said:
Snooker said:
I still believe a system for around £2000 with out a turnatable would sound "90-95%" as good as what is possible, in other words we have reached the freshold where it drops off exponentially, but others again may disagree at where this threshold point is where the system can sound around "90-95%" as good as what is possible, surely most people must agree that a system for a few thousand will sound around the same as a much more expensive system in the £20,000 range...
Definitely not. In my opinion.

there really is so much hype connected to hi-fi and I am sure the high end manufacturers love this so that they can just up there price and then "say !!" its "better sound quality as you get what you pay for !!"
There's hype wherever there is money to be made, regardless of the industry. You do generally get what you pay for, it's just down to whether the buyer thinks the extra is worth it - and personal preference, of course.

also I believe in blind tests to give the most accurate results
Agreed, but spending time with a product in a familiar environment with a familiar system shouldn't be ignored.

No idea why we're discussing diminishing returns in 3 or more threads. But anyway, a couple of points:

1) Percentage terms are meaningless, since it's a completely subjective opinion. Further, unless you've actually compared state of the art systems to your prefered 2K budget system, then there isn't even a basis for your subjective percentage.

2) I find the term "you get what you pay for" misleading, as we often assume it means you get audible improvements. Yes, you may get more as you spend more, but sometimes all you are getting is a fancier chasis/nicer cabinet, not audible improvements. Whether you would pay more for build quality/cosmetics is entirely up to you.

3) I think blind testing is extremely important and has specific uses. However, I would not use it to evaluate subtle differences. I would use it to help determine which differences are subtle or imagined.
 

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