tino
Well-known member
Don't these look nice ... http://www.gamutaudio.com/en-GB/Products/Accessories-and-Upgrades/Stand-for-L3.aspx.
No builders merchant ironwork here.
No builders merchant ironwork here.
Hi, My name is Stu Whisson, I have no idea how to design a perfect pair of speaker stands, but if you design them for me, I promise to make lots of money for myself and my company.
Give me a break.
Give me a break.
chebby
Well-known member
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Dr Lodge said:I always liked the ESPOS ES14 stands I have...custom made for the speaker so they fit perfectly, spikes on top as well as under neath, look quite nice (no big scaffolding tubes).
May be your perfect stands need to be adjustable in size then...
Always liked those stands - I used to use the old Celestion speaker range from the early/mid 90's on them too, which suited a lightweight, open top plate stand. It's amazing what difference an open top plate made to some speakers.
I think something with articulated legs and a padded top plate that grips to the speaker. Easy to place in awkward situations. You could have suction pods on the legs that grip to any flat surface.
Something like the speaker equivalent of the Gorrilapod http://joby.com/gorillapod
Oh if you do design anything like this , I would like my cut :read:
Good luck ....... you could call it " OutSTANDing"
see what I did there.
Something like the speaker equivalent of the Gorrilapod http://joby.com/gorillapod
Oh if you do design anything like this , I would like my cut :read:
Good luck ....... you could call it " OutSTANDing"
see what I did there.
tino
Well-known member
tino said:Has the OP gone AWOL? Thought you wanted some interactive discussion?oke:
Hello?? Calling Mr Whisson? Can you be bothered to reply?
Hi, best wishes with your venture. Have a really close look at the Partington Dreadnought stands. My goodness they got something so right when they designed and made them.
My two cents on stands : why the hell do they cost so much? It's not as if the principle needed to be fully designed over two years by a team of 25 highly paid specialists. Only the material used defines the cost, for all I care, so if one wants real wood or marble, then he should be prepared to pay a certain price. But metal? Cement? I don't know what other cheap material? Come on, using the price point for stands made out of metal, every nation in this world would be totally ruined after having built it's second skyscraper. You can shape the damn thing the way you want, you can put six spikes instead of four, or use an open top, or just make a simple post well grounded and looking nice, but the goal will always be to get heavy materials that do not transmit vibrations, and to put it on a decent contact point - or many as is common. One guy with a little brains in the matter should be able to sit on a chair for 5 hours a day during a whole week, and design something that works and doesn't look bad. And it should not cost more than £100 when the materials are as such mentionned above. It is a SIMPLE STRUCTURE that can easily be made TO LOOK NICE. What the hell, paying £300 for decent stand-mounted speakers, and another £250 for the ******* stands to put them on?! THEY ARE STANDS, not exactly Hi-Fi separates requiring advanced engineering, microscopic precision, and tons of calculations and calibrations to try and find an equilibrium between everything...
Now let's look at something... the universal stand. Yes, it does exist. If, say, Monitor Audio BX6 costs £550, and are provided with plates on which to put the speakers, and spikes to adapt it to a surface, then I fairly assume that the said plates don't justify 60% of that price. In fact, I can fairly assume that similar plates could be provided with stand-mounted too. Speakers would also be designed to still be small, yet made to sit in such a plate. The plate, of course, would be discreet and nice looking, like many companies already do them for floorstanders. Or perhaps someone cleverer than me in those matters - because I really am the dumbest person when it comes to engineering something - could think of an even better solution. Whatever... Then exit the small spikes used for floorstanders, and enter a single bolt-on universal structure made something like a small, thin funnel - the plate can be screwed solidly onto something - thick and heavy metal bolt - while the funnel shape allows it to enter into the top of any stand and look nice and unified. The whole made to encounter the contact point quality of already existing floorstanders plates - which, I still assume, seems to please pretty much everybody, unless they have a very uneven floor. Then, all what's left to do is to produce stands that can be fitted with that universal shape... and produce said stands in whatever shape and design you might think of.ray:
Come on... don't tell me nobody came up with that before... And I'm stupid in those matters, I can only repeat it, and surely there is something illogical somewhere in my design... but I'm quite sure it can work between the hands of - say - my brother. And if he can, then anybody with similar skills does. Then WHAT the HELL is the problem with stands? :shifty:
Now let's look at something... the universal stand. Yes, it does exist. If, say, Monitor Audio BX6 costs £550, and are provided with plates on which to put the speakers, and spikes to adapt it to a surface, then I fairly assume that the said plates don't justify 60% of that price. In fact, I can fairly assume that similar plates could be provided with stand-mounted too. Speakers would also be designed to still be small, yet made to sit in such a plate. The plate, of course, would be discreet and nice looking, like many companies already do them for floorstanders. Or perhaps someone cleverer than me in those matters - because I really am the dumbest person when it comes to engineering something - could think of an even better solution. Whatever... Then exit the small spikes used for floorstanders, and enter a single bolt-on universal structure made something like a small, thin funnel - the plate can be screwed solidly onto something - thick and heavy metal bolt - while the funnel shape allows it to enter into the top of any stand and look nice and unified. The whole made to encounter the contact point quality of already existing floorstanders plates - which, I still assume, seems to please pretty much everybody, unless they have a very uneven floor. Then, all what's left to do is to produce stands that can be fitted with that universal shape... and produce said stands in whatever shape and design you might think of.
ray:Come on... don't tell me nobody came up with that before... And I'm stupid in those matters, I can only repeat it, and surely there is something illogical somewhere in my design... but I'm quite sure it can work between the hands of - say - my brother. And if he can, then anybody with similar skills does. Then WHAT the HELL is the problem with stands? :shifty:
basshound
Well-known member
PhilBlvdElec said:My two cents on stands : why the hell do they cost so much? It's not as if the principle needed to be fully designed over two years by a team of 25 highly paid specialists. Only the material used defines the cost, for all I care, so if one wants real wood or marble, then he should be prepared to pay a certain price. But metal? Cement? I don't know what other cheap material? Come on, using the price point for stands made out of metal, every nation in this world would be totally ruined after having built it's second skyscraper. You can shape the damn thing the way you want, you can put six spikes instead of four, or use an open top, or just make a simple post well grounded and looking nice, but the goal will always be to get heavy materials that do not transmit vibrations, and to put it on a decent contact point - or many as is common. One guy with a little brains in the matter should be able to sit on a chair for 5 hours a day during a whole week, and design something that works and doesn't look bad. And it should not cost more than £100 when the materials are as such mentionned above. It is a SIMPLE STRUCTURE that can easily be made TO LOOK NICE. What the hell, paying £300 for decent stand-mounted speakers, and another £250 for the ******* stands to put them on?! THEY ARE STANDS, not exactly Hi-Fi separates requiring advanced engineering, microscopic precision, and tons of calculations and calibrations to try and find an equilibrium between everything...
Now let's look at something... the universal stand. Yes, it does exist. If, say, Monitor Audio BX6 costs £550, and are provided with plates on which to put the speakers, and spikes to adapt it to a surface, then I fairly assume that the said plates don't justify 60% of that price. In fact, I can fairly assume that similar plates could be provided with stand-mounted too. Speakers would also be designed to still be small, yet made to sit in such a plate. The plate, of course, would be discreet and nice looking, like many companies already do them for floorstanders. Or perhaps someone cleverer than me in those matters - because I really am the dumbest person when it comes to engineering something - could think of an even better solution. Whatever... Then exit the small spikes used for floorstanders, and enter a single bolt-on universal structure made something like a small, thin funnel - the plate can be screwed solidly onto something - thick and heavy metal bolt - while the funnel shape allows it to enter into the top of any stand and look nice and unified. The whole made to encounter the contact point quality of already existing floorstanders plates - which, I still assume, seems to please pretty much everybody, unless they have a very uneven floor. Then, all what's left to do is to produce stands that can be fitted with that universal shape... and produce said stands in whatever shape and design you might think of.
Come on... don't tell me nobody came up with that before... And I'm stupid in those matters, I can only repeat it, and surely there is something illogical somewhere in my design... but I'm quite sure it can work between the hands of - say - my brother. And if he can, then anybody with similar skills does. Then WHAT the HELL is the problem with stands? :shifty:
You are right if it is a simple support on which a speaker sits, over engineering (for the sake of it) is a pointless exercise, unfortunately the simple support so often looks bland at best and Heath Robinson, knocked up in the shed at worst. A properly conceived stand can be an item of 'classical beauty' to the beholder?
However, as an ex stand designer it ain't as simple as that, no point in making a stand that looks OK but sounds naff . . . a lot do! It took me many hundreds of hours to work out what makes the passive engine of a speaker stand work? I started my research in 1975, received an award in 1985 for the Foundation Classic. That design has been copied ever since, the principal visual impact is so often ba$tardised, generally to no good effect. The passive engine (filling) has often been copied, but as far as I know, the workings have never been properly understood, hence, speaker stands are perceived as just that, 'speaker stands', not an item that is designed to work, adding to the whole.
Moving on, now knowing how the passive engine works and how to apply it to a structure. We move to more complicated fabrications, still simple, uncomplicated to look at, but understanding how materials work with each other in a high energy environment, thats another story, of samples, tests and more tests amounting to hundreds of man hours . . .
There were processes involved in the fabrication of the next generation of stand that only a highly skilled engineer is capable of performing. All sorts of cheap ways around were tried, they simply did not work at the 'audibly test stage'. Looking at modern designs, some appear to use those cheap options, and I suspect, looking at the fudges employed, suffer the audible problems we rejected 25 years ago.
So my friend, you can have your cheap, £100 stand, but thats what it will be 'a stand' to support a box. You can pay and have a 'designed' stand, it will look nice, might even have a 'passive engine' concept, but from what I can gather the workings are often far from ideal. You have to pay for; time, design and thought, if you want something that works. That is of course why people object to paying exorbitant prices . . . for an item, that at best, is perceives as only half working??? This is a personal view of course, there are one or two stands that do seem work, but they cost.
This project is fraught with danger, perfection . . . not usually from a consortium? Many companies and people have tried . . . . the original, award winning 'Classic Foundation Stand' was the catalyst. Twenty-five years on, and one still reads, 'I wish I had kept my Foundation Stands' . . .
Its all about, 'less is more', 'adding to the whole', 'what the eye does not see' . . . after 20 years, I have recently resurrected and applied the 'passive engine' damping and tuning principles to other items of hifi engineering to good effect, it still works.
CJSF
Th
Talking of over Engineering..
"One of the biggest issues with any system is isolation of the speaker from the rest of the room. "
Thinking outside the box, isn't this effectively what shock absorbers do on a car? To an extent they isolate the car from bumps in the road by smoothing out shocks (vibration) from the road surface?
Continuing this theme; has such a concept as 'floating' stands ever been developed? Perhaps not fluid filled obviously but incorporating some sort of dampening medium between the speakers and floor aisde from current gel pads etc?
"One of the biggest issues with any system is isolation of the speaker from the rest of the room. "
Thinking outside the box, isn't this effectively what shock absorbers do on a car? To an extent they isolate the car from bumps in the road by smoothing out shocks (vibration) from the road surface?
Continuing this theme; has such a concept as 'floating' stands ever been developed? Perhaps not fluid filled obviously but incorporating some sort of dampening medium between the speakers and floor aisde from current gel pads etc?
Cpt.Issues said:
This crowd do a good job, but they are VERY expensive (and very effective): http://www.trackaudio.co.uk/
and also - http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-vibration-isolation/seismic-sink-platform
chebby
Well-known member
Weight of air: 1.2kg per cubic meter at sea level . . . 8) Multiply that by an acceleration factor of mind boggling proportions, getting close to a brick wall!!!:bounce:
CJSF
CJSF
CJSF said:
The Track Audio stuff works, where little else will....though the 600mm cost £1300
The Townsend Stello Stands cost about £1000 (positively good value!):
http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-vibration-isolation/stella-stand
SteveR750
Well-known member
BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
+1 too. My cosultancy fees are £150/hour, plus you will need to sign an NDA giving me a share of any IPR that is developed. But, since it's Xmas, I'm feeling generous. The answer is to buy a floorstander
CJSF said:
I have a friend whose system is in his bedroom, which is in the roof space of the house. Speakers never sounded right until he used this solution, which is very effective at isolating them from the floor.
In my case, I use Auralex Grammas, resting on Granite worktop savers and trimmed with wood...£110 all in!
CnoEvil said:
Ah . . . wood floor isolation . . . what a bind, I know a dealer, who had an old Victorian shop, he used 30" sq granite slabs, now retired so no Victorian wood floor, but he wont give up his granite for any one. I can see the application of the Townsend supports on a suspended wood floor?
I live in a 1880's Victorian cottage, thick solid walls, high ceilings, thankfully the previous owner removed the wood floors and replaced with solid concrete!
Best speaker stand ever made . . . I dont think there is, or will be any such thing, to many variables?
CJSF
CJSF said:
Tell me about it. I have a 4 ft gap below mine (Victorian), into which a lot of the bass used to disappear.
CJSF said:
+1. There is no such thing as BEST speaker stands as different speakers have totally different resonance and box vibration characteristics which require different stand design in order to obtain the best sound output.
Hi,
Not sure if someone has mentioned this already but I would do the following:
1) Only have three spikes in triangle formation so that the stand is a lot more stable and easier to level
2) Have massive / large spikes where you can adjust them from the top, without having to lift the stand up, knock it out of position slightly to tighten the locking bolt.
3) Have a built in level, into the centre of the top place.
4) Allow the stand to be filled with sand, once in place (Filled from the top)
5) Attaching the speaker to the centre of the top plate is always a pain, how about a detachable top plate, where you blue-tac it to the bottom of the speaker, then a pole / thread, attached to the top plate, which slots into the stand.
6) Adjustable height, with the above pole / attached to the top place, use something similar to garden sheers, with either ball bearing / pre drilled height selectors, or a continuous cut out, that allows you to select the required height, shove a bolt through,
7) The best custom speaker stands bolt to the speakers – how about a T.V type bracket, that clamps to the side / back of the speaker to make it more secure.
8) Binding posts at the bottom of the stand / or some form of fixing method, for speaker cable to be attached to the stand, to keep cables nice and tidy.
I can’t think of anything else. Hope this helps – though looking at the rest of the comments, most only care about what it looks like and colour!
Not sure if someone has mentioned this already but I would do the following:
1) Only have three spikes in triangle formation so that the stand is a lot more stable and easier to level
2) Have massive / large spikes where you can adjust them from the top, without having to lift the stand up, knock it out of position slightly to tighten the locking bolt.
3) Have a built in level, into the centre of the top place.
4) Allow the stand to be filled with sand, once in place (Filled from the top)
5) Attaching the speaker to the centre of the top plate is always a pain, how about a detachable top plate, where you blue-tac it to the bottom of the speaker, then a pole / thread, attached to the top plate, which slots into the stand.
6) Adjustable height, with the above pole / attached to the top place, use something similar to garden sheers, with either ball bearing / pre drilled height selectors, or a continuous cut out, that allows you to select the required height, shove a bolt through,
7) The best custom speaker stands bolt to the speakers – how about a T.V type bracket, that clamps to the side / back of the speaker to make it more secure.
8) Binding posts at the bottom of the stand / or some form of fixing method, for speaker cable to be attached to the stand, to keep cables nice and tidy.
I can’t think of anything else. Hope this helps – though looking at the rest of the comments, most only care about what it looks like and colour!
My speaker stands would be a scaled down version of the burg al arab with a flat-top made with carbon fibre.oooh!!
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=burj+al+arab&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=499&tbm=isch&tbnid=iyKYDdUWkm5VVM:&imgrefurl=http://www.e-architect.co.uk/dubai/burj_al_arab.htm&docid=dQddwSbaekJ1XM&imgurl=http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/dubai/burj_al_arab_jumeirah231008_2.jpg&w=900&h=699&ei=yCj2TvqnIMa08QOB0ujSAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=436&vpy=205&dur=145&hovh=198&hovw=255&tx=205&ty=183&sig=112653470233067822266&page=1&tbnh=124&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=burj+al+arab&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=499&tbm=isch&tbnid=iyKYDdUWkm5VVM:&imgrefurl=http://www.e-architect.co.uk/dubai/burj_al_arab.htm&docid=dQddwSbaekJ1XM&imgurl=http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/jpgs/dubai/burj_al_arab_jumeirah231008_2.jpg&w=900&h=699&ei=yCj2TvqnIMa08QOB0ujSAQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=436&vpy=205&dur=145&hovh=198&hovw=255&tx=205&ty=183&sig=112653470233067822266&page=1&tbnh=124&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:0
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