Help! rDAC coax/hiFace/USB/192kHz conundrum

[6th.replicant]

Wee bit confused and very underwhelmed - what do you folks advise, please... Keen to explore the world of 24bit/192kHz downloads (DLs), so today I took delivery of an M2Tech hiFace USB interface (£100, incl VAT & next-day deliv) and £70-worth of Atlas Opus coax' (because the Arcam rDAC will only output 192kHz via coax'). Connected the MBP, hiFace and Opus - ta v much to Keith at Purite Audio (M2Tech's UK distr') for his assistance/patience via phone - and applied appropriate settings to the Audio MIDI's setup. Started playing various samples (Linn, Reference Recordings etc) of 192kHz DLs and... umm... er... in short, I'm very disappointed: not hearing the levels of detail, separation or imaging that I was expecting, also noticing a hint of low-end bloat. [] Also tried some 96kHz DLs via hiFace/coax and heard more of the same. Then I disconnected the hiFace/coax and connected the rDAC via USB and listened to the 96kHz DLs again. Ta-dah! Heaps more detail, separation and imaging with tighter low-end bass. Even the 192kHz DLs sounded better via USB, which is limited to 96kHz. And the USB cable cost me a tenner at Maplins. [:S] So what's the explanation? Is is that the rDAC's "dCS asynchronous USB technology" is superior to coax'? Does the Atlas Opus need hours 'n' hours of run-in (I've already used Atlas's burn-in disc, twice)? Or..? As ever, any advice much appreciated. Ta. []

 

[The_Lhc]

What are you using to play the files on the PC?

 

[6th.replicant]

the_lhc:What are you using to play the files on the PC?
Latest iTunes - 10.1.2.

 

[The_Lhc]

The HiFace web page suggests you have to use something like Foobar with the HiFace drivers to get 192kHz files to play correctly (ie bit perfect), otherwise they'll get downsampled and I wouldn't really trust iTunes to do that properly. Just a thought.

 

[6th.replicant]

Ooo, OK, thanks for that.

Erm, "Foobar", you say..? Google!

[EDIT] Ah, OK, seems that Foobar is "an advanced freeware audio player for the Windows platform". For my sins, I'm using OS X (and I've DL'd/installed the latest hiFace drivers), but thanks for the thought.

 

[6th.replicant]

.

 

[macipod]

6th.replicant:Ooo, OK, thanks for that.

Erm, "Foobar", you say..? Google!

[EDIT] Ah, OK, seems that Foobar is "an advanced freeware audio player for the Windows platform". For my sins, I'm using OS X (and I've DL'd/installed the latest hiFace drivers), but thanks for the thought.

Hi

I am interested to know what ( OS X (and I've DL'd/installed the latest hiFace drivers), are as i have a macbook pro and considering it using it with my Rdac hope this makes scene .

Luke

 

[6th.replicant]

Mine's OS X 10.6.6

 

[macipod]

Hi

Sorry i mean is this some sort of software to play hi bit rate audio ?

 

[6th.replicant]

By "this", I assume you're referring to the M2Tech hiFace USB interface? It is a USB/coax adapter that enables a computer to play 24bit/192kHz files via its USB output.

In order to function with a Mac, the hiFace requires OS X 10.6-spec drivers to be downloaded and installed from M2Tech's website.

But it seems that the M2Tech hiFace does not partner well/is superflous with an rDAC...

 

[6th.replicant]

A bit of Googling has found jitter measurements for the rDAC's coax and USB:

Coax input: 4,356ps

USB input: 145ps

Anyone know if these figures are significant?

Ta

 

[shooter]

6th.replicant:A bit of Googling has found jitter measurements for the rDAC's coax and USB:

Coax input: 4,356ps

USB input: 145ps

Anyone know if these figures are significant?

Ta

The lower figure of 145ps is the better for sure. A ps or picosecond is a trillionth of a second, small i know but significant all the same.

Regarding the rDac, reading some reviews on-line the general feeling is the USB is superior to the others, i'm not suprised your hearing that.

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks for explanation, Shooter.

So, the rDAC's USB outperforms the coax. Erm, so the coax's 192kHz ability is effectively superfluous if it's outperformed by the USB?

No point in buying any 24bit/192kHz downloads if you have an rDAC, then.

A shame that none of the hi-fi mags spotted this wee anomaly, or did they..?

 

[shooter]

Just a thought 6th, have you adjusted your setting's within the Audio MIDI Setup?

 

[6th.replicant]

shooter69:Just a thought 6th, have you adjusted your setting's within the Audio MIDI Setup?
Frequently!

I have to open Audio MIDI to select the hiFace and then, of course, keep altering the kHz-settings and closing/opening iTunes, depending on the file/res format being played - I'm up 'n' down like a bloomin' yo-yo!

Seems that this computer-based music lark is too much like hard work if better-than CD-quality sound is desired?

I think I'll stick to SACDs and vinyl.

 

[shooter]

Are you still using the AVS 3D because Audi midi doesn't support 192 Hz?

Have you tried Pure Music with it's own engine and 192Hz capability's, it's free to try?

Don't give up yet 6th it's all pretty fresh.

 

[6th.replicant]

shooter69:Are you still using the AVS 3D because Audi midi doesn't support 192 Hz?

Have you tried Pure Music with it's own engine and 192Hz capability's, it's free to try?

Don't give up yet 6th it's all pretty fresh.

I did consider the AVS 3D. But when I DL'd/installed the hiFace's drivers and then added the hiFace to the Audio MIDI's left-pane, ta-dah, the hiFace adds the full range of kHz options (up 192) to the Audio MIDI.

I'm pretty sure that the problem isn't with iTunes/Audio MIDI/hiFace, more that the rDAC's 96kHz USB is so good while its 192kHz coax is pants?

Ta for the suggestion, though.

I think I need a cuppa char, a Sainsbury's in-store bakery doughnut(s), and several Cutter's Choice rollies...

 

[shooter]

6th.replicant:I did consider the AVS 3D. But when I DL'd/installed the hiFace's drivers and then added the hiFace to the Audio MIDI's left-pane, ta-dah, the hiFace adds the full range of kHz options (up 192) to the Audio MIDI.

Does the Hiface use it's own engine or does it rely on the Mac. It might have the option but not the capability??

6th.replicant:I'm pretty sure that the problem isn't with iTunes/Audio MIDI/hiFace, more that the rDAC's 96kHz USB is so good while its 192kHz coax is pants?

I agree, but i'm not convinced it's that the USB connection is so much better, yes those at dCS are world leaders in digital playback so i' not surprised that connection is the best but reading the views of others the coax isn't that far behind. Have a search for "arcam rdac asynchronous usb dac" and have a read. If it's not any of the above and everything is in order, i.e drivers up to date etc. then maybe it's the cable? Long shot i know but it's the only unknown quantity as it stands. Have you another coax to try, even a cheap buy from Maplin's to do a comparison?

Edit: forget this, i wrote this before the first question.

6th.replicant:I think I need a cuppa char, a Sainsbury's in-store bakery doughnut(s), and several Cutter's Choice rollies...

 

[6th.replicant]

shooter69:... Does the Hiface use it's own engine or does it rely on the Mac. It might have the option but not the capability?? ...
Umm, er, I was kinda hoping/assuming it does?

If it's not too much of a chore, M2Tech's website has the hiFace's tech info/spec, link below (I would copy/paste, but no doubt that would infringe a House Rule...)
http://www.m2tech.biz/index-3.html

Ta

 

[shooter]

It's a clocking devise that allows you to transfer files at whatever rate up to 24/192 with the minimum of jitter.

The Mac can deal with 192 kHz rates but it's limited 96 kHz through the Audio MIDI set up.

You'll need something like Sonic Studio's Amarra 2.0 or Channel D's Pure Music to get the rates you want.

 

[shooter]

Pure music demo link.

http://www.channld.com/puremusic/

 

[6th.replicant]

Cheers, will give Pure's demo a spin.

So in other words, the hiFace is basically a glorified USB-coax adaptor - albeit 192kHz compatible - which costs a hundred quid?

 

[6th.replicant]

Been playing with Channel D's Pure Music (demo) - hell, is that the time?! - and for once I read a product's instruction book before launching into maximum attack.

Blimey, the Pure definitely improves iTunes's sound.

Ta very much for the clue, Shooter.

But although Pure-iTunes now delivers much more detail, texture etc with the hiFace/coax, it is as if the treble's been cranked up - which IME is similar to the AVS 3D's effect - which makes all a tad bright-sounding and sacrifices mid- and low-end bass - very noticeable during classical music - and has caused some vocal sibilance. I hope there's some type of equalizer option?

Also noticed that the Pure has a couple of quirks: first, if a music file is 176kHz, when the Pure auto-selects that setting (Pure negates the need for Audio MIDI - yipee!), the rDAC's light goes from green to red and there's no sound, yet all other types - 44.1, 88, 96, 192 - are selected/play OK; second, it seems that the Pure is prone to randomly pausing playback when a track finishes.

Still, the demo lasts 15 days, which should be enough time to tweak/understand the setup - and decide whether or not the Pure Music is worth £86...

 

[shooter]

6th.replicant:But although Pure-iTunes now delivers much more detail, texture etc with the hiFace/coax, it is as if the treble's been cranked up - which IME is similar to the AVS 3D's effect - which makes all a tad bright-sounding and sacrifices mid- and low-end bass - very noticeable during classical music - and has caused some vocal sibilance. I hope there's some type of equalizer option?

Using Pure Music cancel's the iTunes equaliser, which is a pain. It could be worth contacting Keith at Purite regarding the sibilant problems as i've found nothing on it, in fact most views out there is that it does the opposite, refining.

6th.replicant:Also noticed that the Pure has a couple of quirks: first, if a music file is 176kHz, when the Pure auto-selects that setting (Pure negates the need for Audio MIDI - yipee!), the rDAC's light goes from green to red and there's no sound, yet all other types - 44.1, 88, 96, 192 - are selected/play OK; second, it seems that the Pure is prone to randomly pausing playback when a track finishes.

Have a look at the below link, there is a "Pure Music stops after playing the current track" section plus some other info that may come of use.

http://www.channld.com/support-troubleshooting.html

6th.replicant:Still, the demo lasts 15 days, which should be enough time to tweak/understand the setup - and decide whether or not the Pure Music is worth £86...

One glitch i've noticed is that when i minimise the iTunes window PM stay's up, then when i restore window PM's scroller is hidden behind iTunes. Hmm.

JUST A NOTE....

Anyone following this who maybe thinking about getting Pure Music to listen to Hi-Rez music, it's for PC>DAC>AMP use only, you can't use it with any third party devises like Squeezebox or Sonos etc.

You can use it with Airport Express or Apple TV using Airfoil, have a look at the Pure Music support for setting's but resolution is at 16bit 44.1kHz, CD quality.

 

[6th.replicant]

Thanks for feedback, Shooter.

I've sussed the non-playback of 176kHz, by selecting permanent upsampling to 192kHz.

When using iTunes, I have its EQ and Sound Enhancer off, which IMHO produces a more 'organic' type of sound compared to Pure's brighter, albeit much more detailed, delivery.

TBH, I'm bewildered by Pure's EQ settings, which I assume are the 'AUDIOUNIT PLUG-INS'?

And, in Pure's context, what the hell is 'Dither'??