Best upgrade to current system

[MikeAndo]

Hi everyone,

I have a bit of a mis-matched system thats been put together over a period of many years and I'm now looking to see where I should take it next.

I'm not really looking to replace the whole system as I actually like the current sound from it, but I'm not sure if I'm missing out on its ability and so wanted to ask if theres an obvious upgrade I'm missing here. My main suspect for an upgrade are the speakers, as these were stock speakers taken from a famly member's all-in-one Hi-Fi system.

Sony TA-FB730R (QS /UK SE) Amp

Marantz CD 6000OSE CD player

Maverick Audio TubeMagic D2 DAC

Logitec Squeezebox (the original old model which doesnt seem to have a name or model no)

Sony SS-LB 355 speakers (these came with a Sony LBT-N355 which is not mine, its owner only uses head phones).

and a PC (it has some horrable VIA on board sound chip which crackles but I use the USB connection from the DAC).

Sennheiser HD 449 headphones

I connect everything to the DAC, PC via USB, CD player via optical and squeezebox via coax.
DAC to the Sony Amp via the normal out (non tube) as its less than 24 hours old still.

I play all types of music, blues,rock and dance and its also providing the sound for movies and games from the PC, so I need to be an all-rounder.
Some extra info in case it helps, the speakers sit under a desk and so the bass gets brought out by it, space apart about 1.5m, the CD player's laser seems to have satrted to wear, as it will on occaision have toruble seeking. Most of the music on the PC/squeeze box is FLAC.

The DAC is a new addition, mainly to solve the PC sound problems, and thats the reason for my renewed interest in upgrading the system. It would appear to me that the DAC is the higher level item at the moment, but I could well be wrong.

Any advice on what would be a suitable upgrade or even just how (badly?) balanced it is currently would be greatly appreciated.

 

[arrabon]

In terms of the order of upgrade, here's what I think (highest to lowest priority) with some suggestions:

1. Speakers - I've never heard them personally, but I think most people on this forum would agree that speakers from Sony all-in-one systems are generally not considered "audiophile" quality. Go to a Hi-fi store and have a listen to any of the speakers listed on the What-Hifi best buys and see how they compare to yours - the difference will probably be quite pronounced. Speaker upgrades also make the biggest difference to sound in any audio system.

2. Amp - you might consider getting a power amp to take advantage of your Maverick audio DAC's pre-amp functionality.

3. CD player - depends on how often you listen to CDs

Why are you speakers under the table?? If you need to put them under the table to boost the bast, that's probably a convincing reason to upgrade them.

 

[Overdose]

I'd agree with the above, but probably forgoe the CD player, as your DAC is the leveller in terms of sound quality.

Another option, would be to consider active speakers.

 

[MakkaPakka]

Spend 100% of the cash you have available on new speakers/stands (if needed). If you need a replacement CD player look <£50 second hand and use it with the DAC - personally I like the Pioneer stable platter players.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yes, I'd go with new speakers too. What's your budget?

 

[MikeAndo]

In terms of the order of upgrade, here's what I think (highest to lowest priority) with some suggestions:

1. Speakers - I've never heard them personally, but I think most people on this forum would agree that speakers from Sony all-in-one systems are generally not considered "audiophile" quality. Go to a Hi-fi store and have a listen to any of the speakers listed on the What-Hifi best buys and see how they compare to yours - the difference will probably be quite pronounced. Speaker upgrades also make the biggest difference to sound in any audio system.

2. Amp - you might consider getting a power amp to take advantage of your Maverick audio DAC's pre-amp functionality.

3. CD player - depends on how often you listen to CDs

Why are you speakers under the table?? If you need to put them under the table to boost the bast, that's probably a convincing reason to upgrade them.

I did actually take a trip into town to try to have a general listen, sadly all of the audio shops I used to know have all gone - we used to have 4 or 5 in all in the same area - an excellent second hand place as well who just filled up all available space with stuff. Sadly all gone. Now it seems just the big chains like john Lewis, who have reduced their audio section down to a single isle of the compact separates - desktop size? about 10inch wide ones. I could try listening to those to maybe get an idea of the sound from a brand and hope the larger models are close? I guess then it would give a comparision point so I could say I like the sound of X.

The current speakers are quite large, maybe 19inch tall. They tend to live under the desk mainly to save space/keep them out the way, although after discovering the bass boost I kept thme there for that reason as well.

I'd agree with the above, but probably forgoe the CD player, as your DAC is the leveller in terms of sound quality.

Another option, would be to consider active speakers.

Spend 100% of the cash you have available on new speakers/stands (if needed). If you need a replacement CD player look <£50 second hand and use it with the DAC - personally I like the Pioneer stable platter players.

Seems like the CD player isnt too important then, I don't tend to use it so much now either as I tend to rip my CDs to FLAC and play them that way. I might just make do with that for the moment. I heard some pople have used cheap DVD players and use the digital out to their DAC, I do happen to have an old Toshiba and a Denon I could try that with if needed.

Active speakers would effectivly remove the AMP from the system as they have their own correct? The only downside I see there is even with the DAC, I'm still short of analogue inputs on the AMP - theres a second output from the same PC the DAC serves (from a HDMI capture card), a second PC, and 2x game consoles. Oh and a tuner which I havnt used for a very long time and don't even know why I still put it on the stack, and (presses power button) is actually unplgged. And I'm also short of power sockets, even with 2x power boards.

Yes, I'd go with new speakers too. What's your budget?

I'd say probably £200-£300, maybe a bit more at a push, is that going to be enough?

 

[Overdose]

Yes, it should be.

Certainly for speakers

 

[MikeAndo]

Given the quality difference from my current speakers to say sometihng like a Cambridge Audio S30 or a Q Acoustics 2010i or the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 - all around £120-£150, would there be any point going into the higher bracket area like the Wharfedale Diamond 121 (£230) or even an Arcaydis DM1 (£299)? I sort of got the impression that I'm likly to be suitably impressed regardless, and therefore would I see a noticable difference between those 2 brackets or would the higher level be overkill and maybe better left to a point in the future when I perhaps change out the Amp?

With regard my current Amp, is there likly to be any issue in using bookshelf speakers with it? The size looks to be a bit reversed - such a large amp and small speakers. It also appears to be able to drive 2 sets at once, either A or B or A+B, would that be of use for Bi-wire or is that not the intended use of it? I never really understood the point of the 2 outputs unless I was say testing 2 sets of speakers or something.

Speakers mentioned were picked totally from them having 5 stars and what seems to be a good review from the 'best buys' area.

 

[steve_1979]

I'd say probably £200-£300, maybe a bit more at a push

Spend it all on speakers.

Have a listen to a few different speakers in hifi shops yourself and buy whichever ones sound the best to you. One thing to bare in mind when you audition the speakers - don't just go for the ones that sound the most exciting when you listen for a few seconds in a shop. Take your time and ask yourself the question 'could I listen to these for several hours at a time with them becoming fatiguing?' Speakers which sound the most exciting in short bursts often start to grate on you once you've been listening to them for a while.

Give Q Acoustics and Acoustic Energy speakers a listen if you get the chance.

 

[arrabon]

The brackets are there because reviewers generally use price as a rough indicator of quality, so there should be a difference. As to whether you will see a noticeable difference, it really depends on your ears and how demanding you are as a listener. Perhaps you may want to opt for the more expensive Arcaydis or Wharfedale to skip the entry level bracket, saving the effort of having to upgrade again - in the event you catch the hi-fi bug

What I can say though is that the difference between higher price brackets (£1000 vs £1500+) is much less than between lower price brackets (£200 vs £350+). In other words, you'll get diminishing returns on your investment the higher the price bracket. So the difference between lower price brackets should be fairly substantial in a relative sense.

With regard my current Amp, is there likly to be any issue in using bookshelf speakers with it? The size looks to be a bit reversed - such a large amp and small speakers. It also appears to be able to drive 2 sets at once, either A or B or A+B, would that be of use for Bi-wire or is that not the intended use of it? I never really understood the point of the 2 outputs unless I was say testing 2 sets of speakers or something.

Shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure your amp's power output falls within the range of the power handling range of the speakers you choose, but I think almost all the speakers you'll be looking at will fit the bill. The A+B thing is for driving 2 sets of speakers (e.g. living room + patio) simultaneously (at half the power I think). You can use the terminals for bi-wiring.

 

[MikeAndo]

I finally managed to take a trip to a branch of Richer Sounds in London with the intent of having a listen to some of the best buys from here.

First up were a pair of DALI's which I think were the Zensor 1, however they had them for £200, second were a pair of Focals - I'm not certain as to which model, but they were at £399. Both sounded nice, and apologies for not knowing the right terms here - the higher frequencies / lighter sounds were really good, but they both seemed to lack any depth to the bass. It seemed the higher sounds were overpowering the bass. A bit like having a 5.1 setup without the sub, is the best I can describe it.

I did note a difference between them, but not a full £200 worth. When I queried the bass, he pointed to the amp which was a tiny Cambridge Audio of unknown model, it was so small it was smaller than my DAC. He said Cambridge amps are never particullay bassy, and this one isnt good either. I kinda thought well why are you using it to demo all your speakers then but still. He also said the Focals were not run-in properly yet.

I asked about Wharfedale Diamonds -as one was on display, but they apparently only had that one, as in a single speaker, and couldn't demo it. And it apparently wasnt worth listening to anyway. They are apparently too bassy, and the mid range is all muddeled.

I asked about Q Acoustics, I think they had the 2010i on display, his answer was basically they were not bad, but better off spending the money on better - I didnt get any demo, despite them being connected up.

I also got a demo of some Camebridge Audio speakers which were at the £100-£150 area, they had them on a small Demon amp, but they didnt seem to sound anywhere near the DALI's.

So I left there totally disapointed and with even less clue than when I went in. Can anyone tell me if that advice is anywhere close to correct? I'm not overly convinced to be honest.

It didn't help that the front door was open and we had traffic going past, and nothing behind the speakers as they were in the middle of the shop floor.

Given I found the ones demoed to be lacking in bass, would that mean a wharfedale would be a good choice for me? Or was my demo ruined by the tiny little Cambridge Audio amp they were using and I should totaly discount what I heard?. I honestly felt my £80 Sennheiser headphones sounded better overall, which surely shouldnt be right.

Oh and one last thing, when doing the demo - he unplugged one speaker - while it was playing, and let the cable hit the floor - the contacts kept touching and shorting, you could hear the sound crackeling and stuttering on the other speaker as it shorted, this process repated for the other side, and every time he swapped over a pair of speakers. Whenever I've done re-connecting, I've always made sure the amp was off, let alone let it short out over and over. Do the amps have short protection? That seems like a really bad thing to do to an amp or even the other speaker.

 

[matthewpiano]

Sounds like a nightmare demo to me. How you are expected to tell the difference between speakers in those conditions is beyond me. Interesting that he was so negative about Cambridge Audio - usually the opposite problem in Richers. I can't even work out what the amp was. All their integrateds are full width, and even some of those (the Topaz range) are pretty horrific. The Azurs can be very nice but your description makes it clear this isn't what you heard.

You need to find another dealer. Is there a Superfi, Audio T or Sevenoaks within reach? Book a proper demo in one of these stores, preferably with amplification as close to your own as possible, and see what you think then.

I'd suggest trying a couple at the £200-ish mark such as the Boston Acoustics A25 and perhaps the Wharfedale Diamond 121 (though watch the finish on these), and then something like the KEF Q100s and/or the Quad 11L Classics for something a bit further up the food chain.

There are much better demo experiences to be had than Richers provided you with.

 

[MikeAndo]

Sounds like a nightmare demo to me. How you are expected to tell the difference between speakers in those conditions is beyond me. Interesting that he was so negative about Cambridge Audio - usually the opposite problem in Richers. I can't even work out what the amp was. All their integrateds are full width, and even some of those (the Topaz range) are pretty horrific. The Azurs can be very nice but your description makes it clear this isn't what you heard.

You need to find another dealer. Is there a Superfi, Audio T or Sevenoaks within reach? Book a proper demo in one of these stores, preferably with amplification as close to your own as possible, and see what you think then.

I'd suggest trying a couple at the £200-ish mark such as the Boston Acoustics A25 and perhaps the Wharfedale Diamond 121 (though watch the finish on these), and then something like the KEF Q100s and/or the Quad 11L Classics for something a bit further up the food chain.

There are much better demo experiences to be had than Richers provided you with.

Unfortunatly I live in the barron wastelands of Peterborough, but I might try Analogue Seduction although there a bit far out and I don't drive.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll add those to my list for demo'ing once I find somewhere.

 

[BigH]

I would go to Analogue Seduction, Richers are a bit of a waste of time, as I found out after driving 50 miles to get there.

 

[stevebrock]

I urge you to go to Analogue Seductions - you will have to book though - you cant just turn it.

It in his house, but his house is massive - a beautiful period Manor House

The only thing is the main listening room is so well damped i tihnk most speakers will sound good!

I went there for my RP3 table, he had some serious kit in there - Im talking £6k Chord amps etc & loads of Turntables

 

[stevebrock]

BTW I went to super fi a few years ago, they wouldnt even let me demo a pair of speakers - because they were too busy? WTF

Go to Analogue Seductions, a professional - not one of these High St cowboy outfits - (richer,super fi)

 

[matthewpiano]

I've only ever bought accessories online from Analogue Seduction but they've been brilliant each time. Well worth a visit I would think.