Help me pick an awesome sub - interested up to £1,500

[alex-manchester]

Hello all,

Not been on this forum before. I have just moved house and replaced my old cathode ray telly. Never had a home cinema kit before, and I have gone bit crazy. My new living room is 4.5m x 4.5m, with an additional bay window (in which the satellit speakers will go), and I have bought:

1. A Panasonic 55VT50 Plasma screen.

2. A Pioneer SCLX-56 A/V receiver.

3. Monitor Audio's Shadow Speaker range for a 7.1 set up, i.e. 3 front, 2 side speakers and 2 rear speakers.

4. Cambridge Audio's Azur 752BD Blu Ray player.

I got the AV receiver and most of the speakers in a 5.1 package deal from richer sounds - the sub that came included is the Monitor Audio BXW-10 sub.

None of it is even plugged in yet. Someone is coming round to set it all up for me, thank the lord. Chasing the cables into the walls was a nightmare, but I will post a pic to say thanks when it is all up and running!

I'm posting because I think my sub is the weak link. I want a better one. I am willing to go up to about £1,500. My friend has a BK Monolith, but here are a couple that have taken my fancy: B&W PV1D and REL 328 or 528. I would like, when playing 2 channel stereo, to have the sub playing too (I think this is called a speaker line input?).

If I can get real quality, I think I would prefer the more accurate, less boomy type of sound. I am hoping for this sort of money that the tightest, most musical subs out there will still make my set up sound pretty damn good, so I would be extremely grateful for any suggestions. I am also wondering whether to keep the sub I already have and use it as a second one, or should I only use identical subs in the same system....

many thanks,

alex

 

[duaplex]

I have the PV1 and its a fantastic sub, the PV1-D would get my vote, but be warned I find it hard to place the sub because of its dual drivers. A sub that is only forward firing can be placed without anything obstructing its speaker. But, the PV1-D with its unique design will need some room. Otherwise one driver will be firing into your cabinet or speaker while the other into the room etc.

How about the MX700 MK3?

 

[CnoEvil]

Subs that I would put on your shortlist are:

- PV1-D (as stated)

- Paradigm Seismic 110

- Velodyne SPL1200 Ultra

- SVS SB13-Plus

....and KK Sound DXD 808 (as recommended by David of F.Harvey), Nb. Same sub as MX700 Mk.3

 

[duaplex]

Indeed, he recommended that as a step up for me. David knows his stuff.

 

[Frank Harvey]

[UNPUBLISHED - advertising]

Ken Kreisel has designed his new subs with one major aspect in mind - time domain. Every aspect of them has been designed for the fastest response, which also enables the DXD808 and DXD12012 to be able to pick out small pitch changes that other subs just can't, whether it be with music or movies. Many manufacturers will claim their subs are good for music, but very few can actually live up to that claim. Ken (who has always been a sound recording engineer) built his first subwoofer at the request of Steely Dan in order to mix/master one of their albums, and he then continued to make them for owners of Quad electrostatics who wanted deeper bass, but retaining quality. So that tells you that his subs have always been designed from an audio quality point of view from day one, and not to just go deep and go loud.

The PV1D is one of the other subs that are clean enough and tight enough for music, but its presence in the lower registers doesn't hold a candle to the DXD808. And don't forget, the DXD808 uses exactly the same dual push/pull amplifiers that the DXD12012 uses, so its definitely not short on power! I use a 12012, and used in conjunction with my LS50's - neither products draw attention to themselves, so I'm left with a sound that is more comparable to a pair of expensive high end speakers. The DXD808 is £1150, which leaves you plenty of change for an Antimode 8033 sub EQ - a little box that will ensure you get the flattest response from it in any room (most receivers don't EQ sub frequencies).

You have to be looking at the SVS SB13 Ultra to better the 808 - but then you're in DXD12012 territory...

 

[BenLaw]

I don't know how much of an improvement the pv1d is but I was not impressed when I heard the pv1 and the measurements I have seen of it are pretty terrible.

Rel and bk are obviously good shouts. If EQ is considered to be important then you may want to consider a sub with it included, such as jl audio. If you want something small to complement the shadow speakers then I thought the paradigm seismic was very impressive.

 

[buzz_lightclick]

I have an as yet unused PV1D, bought nearly new from someone who replaced it was an SVS SB13 which he thinks goes much lower and louder, but is almost too much and difficult to control. Living in a flat I couldn't get away with a sub like that without upsetting the neighbours!

 

[Frank Harvey]

[UNPUBLISHED - advertising]

Worth pointing out that you would have to travel to Coventry (presumably from Manchester) to hear one, as frank Harvey is the exclusive stockist.

We knew that Ken Kreisel would come up with a top notch product based on past offerings, so we made sure we secured exclusivity. Hes' exceeded our expectations so far, so that can only be a good thing

 

[BenLaw]

[UNPUBLISHED – see above]

quote=FrankHarveyHiFi]

Worth pointing out that you would have to travel to Coventry (presumably from Manchester) to hear one, as frank Harvey is the exclusive stockist.

We knew that Ken Kreisel . . .

[/quote]

That part of my post was meant very gently to highlight to the OP, who may not have been aware, that your promotion of KK subs almost to the exclusion of anything else in a thread such as this effectively amounts to an advert. Interesting to see that you took it as a further opportunity to advertise :shame:

 

[Frank Harvey]

[UNPUBLISHED – see above]

Worth pointing out that you would have to travel to Coventry (presumably from Manchester) to hear one, as frank Harvey is the exclusive stockist.

We knew that Ken Kreisel . . .

That part of my post was meant very gently to highlight to the OP, who may not have been aware, that your promotion of KK subs almost to the exclusion of anything else in a thread such as this effectively amounts to an advert. Interesting to see that you took it as a further opportunity to advertise :shame:

Whatever Ben :hand:

If I feel a product is better than anything else available for the price, of course I'm only going o mention that product. Occasionally I'll mention an alternative or two, but on this occasion, I didn't feel the need to. For serious subs, we deal with SVS and KK - having had access to many subs that are on the market over the past twenty years or so, I'll stick to recommending those two, unless something better comes along.

Just for you, I'll refrain from mentioning Ken Kreisel subs again.

 

[jcshutts]

[UNPUBLISHED – see above]

Does ken Kreisel make subs as well??

 

[The_Lhc]

[UNPUBLISHED – see above]

Not sure, but I DO know that Ken Kreisel makes subs AND I know where you can get them from as well...

 

[Frank Harvey]

[UNPUBLISHED – see above]

Yes, Ken Kreisel makes speakers too - which are coming any day now.

Oops.

 

[philipjohnwright]

Don't rule out the BK's.

If you read the reviews on their site you'll see they get favourably compared to models 2 or 3 times their cost. Given the Monolith + (upgrade on the still-available Monolith) is only £550 then I'd definitely consider it. If you really want to splash out get two. Only issue is you can't demo it as they only sell directly (hence the price - no dealer margin). That's how I bought my first REL though - never regeretted it. Perhaps you could persuade your friend to let you borrow his?

They used to make the REL's when Richard Lord first started out, so know a thing or two about subs. And they are very flexible in terms of connections - you can even have separate home cinema and audio connections into it.

My father has one of the little ones (Gemini) which is nice / good value. If I was going for a sub to place my REL (not the original one) I think the Monolith + would be my default choice (in an Ayre / Harbeth system). Just think how many BlueRay discs / downloads you could buy with the money you save?!

 

[ellisdj]

There are loads of subs available for that money - BK's are very highly regarded for the money - and full stop.

My XXLS400 blew another forum member away who came round for a demo - he has a Paradigm sub15 which is a £3k retail sub.,

Not saying my BK is better just that I have set it up really well . SVS are very popular no experience of them

Depends ultimately on what you want - real low end perfomance or musicality or both - both is difficult to get hence my comments below

I would try and get up to david @ Frank Harvey for a dem of the KK 12" duo or 8" - not sure the exact names they are very interesting to me anyway

I would def factor / budget in bass managment in the form of an antimode or similar (if its not included). If you dont then you very likely wont hear the benefits of the money you have spent on a better sub over a cheaper one in your room unless you are very lucky.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Removed.

If I can't make a genuine recommendation to a genuine question, I don't see any point in taking part in this thread. I can either openly and transparently make recommendations (I'm not hiding who I am), or I can have them made by other people. Surely this way is preferred.

 

[Anonymous]

David,

Your opinion is one that I value tremendously.

Your KNOWLEDGE and UNBIASED recommendations is definitely a virtue.

Unlike some retailers here who blatantly always manage to drive any opinion towards their own products, you have never done that.

Keep doing what you do best.

EvilWolf

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thank you EvilWolf.

I only noticed your post while I was looking for another thread - I'm glad I looked.

 

[duaplex]

We all sure those sentiments David. I just wish you was closer to where I lived

 

[jcshutts]

I'm grateful to you also David for your advice and I would never mistrust your views purely because you rave about a product which you also sell. Keep up the support for this forum!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks Duaplex and JC. It'll take much more than that to put me off!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Apologies - posted in the wrong place.