Maybe now would be a good time to point us all at the forum guidelines?
I'd also recommend making HDMI leads an off-limits topic!
I'd also recommend making HDMI leads an off-limits topic!
ESP2009:Maybe now would be a good time to point us all at the forum guidelines?
There's a link to the House Rules at the bottom of every page of the site.
There's a link to the House Rules at the bottom of every page of the site.
I really don't understand what's the big deal and why people get so emotional about cables! I mean, it's a piece of metal for gods sake! Just like some people spend money drinking only Evian water whereas others are perfectly happy to drink tap water.
At the end of the day, everything is subjective and everyone has his/her own preference and opinion.
What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
At the end of the day, everything is subjective and everyone has his/her own preference and opinion.
What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
idc
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seakingadvice:What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
There have been some lively debates about racks. There was one recently questioning What hifi's credibility over reviewing different racks. Speaker stands however come under the generally accepted upgrade that works and there are obvious and unambiguous reasons why that is the case. There is a lot of science to say that HDMI cables should not make any difference, hence the livelyness of those debates.
There have been some lively debates about racks. There was one recently questioning What hifi's credibility over reviewing different racks. Speaker stands however come under the generally accepted upgrade that works and there are obvious and unambiguous reasons why that is the case. There is a lot of science to say that HDMI cables should not make any difference, hence the livelyness of those debates.
idc:
seakingadvice:What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
There have been some lively debates about racks. There was one recentlyÿquestioning What hifi's credibility over reviewing different racks. Speaker stands however come under the generally accepted upgrade that works and there are obvious and unambiguous reasons why that is the case. There is a lot of science to say that HDMI cables should not make any difference, hence the livelyness of those debates.
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.ÿ
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
seakingadvice:What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
There have been some lively debates about racks. There was one recentlyÿquestioning What hifi's credibility over reviewing different racks. Speaker stands however come under the generally accepted upgrade that works and there are obvious and unambiguous reasons why that is the case. There is a lot of science to say that HDMI cables should not make any difference, hence the livelyness of those debates.
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.ÿ
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
idc
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Tarquinh:
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
I see where you are coming from Tarquinh. I have recommended this book before.........................
and I accept that there are many who fall for the bogus science in particular. The cosmetics industry and its' claims about 'pentapeptides', regenerative growth etc is a classic example. QED in their current HDMI adverts claim that their HDMI cables give extra headroom, what ever that means. I have asked elsewhere but no answer.
I have to confess that I have regularly used the believer and disbeliver tags, as you know, but it was not meant to be serious and certainly not meant to be quasi-religious! It was to try and lighten the tone when threads have gone too vociferous.
P.S - I have also been rude about the French, and then found out you at least live there. France is genuinely my favourite country, my wife is the former manager of Scotland's premier French restaurant and we plan to retire there (and post rude comments about 'le roast beefs'!
)
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
I see where you are coming from Tarquinh. I have recommended this book before.........................
and I accept that there are many who fall for the bogus science in particular. The cosmetics industry and its' claims about 'pentapeptides', regenerative growth etc is a classic example. QED in their current HDMI adverts claim that their HDMI cables give extra headroom, what ever that means. I have asked elsewhere but no answer.
I have to confess that I have regularly used the believer and disbeliver tags, as you know, but it was not meant to be serious and certainly not meant to be quasi-religious! It was to try and lighten the tone when threads have gone too vociferous.
P.S - I have also been rude about the French, and then found out you at least live there. France is genuinely my favourite country, my wife is the former manager of Scotland's premier French restaurant and we plan to retire there (and post rude comments about 'le roast beefs'!
idc:Tarquinh:
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.ÿ
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
I see where you are coming from Tarquinh. I have recommended this book before.........................
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
)
You've shamed me, idc! My comments about the quasi-religious nature of things weren't aimed at you, I've appreciated what you've been trying to do, hence my tongue-in-cheek comment in another thread. Don't worry about being rude about the French, they are rude about themselves quite often. That French restaurant wouldn't be one in Edinburgh, would it?ÿÿ
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.ÿ
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
I see where you are coming from Tarquinh. I have recommended this book before.........................
ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ
You've shamed me, idc! My comments about the quasi-religious nature of things weren't aimed at you, I've appreciated what you've been trying to do, hence my tongue-in-cheek comment in another thread. Don't worry about being rude about the French, they are rude about themselves quite often. That French restaurant wouldn't be one in Edinburgh, would it?ÿÿ
Sliced Bread
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Test your purchases before you buy them. If a store is any good then they will let you borrow a lead or allow you to view the product in store before you buy.
If you like it: buy it!
If you don't like it: don't buy it!
Simply as that.
Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
If you like it: buy it!
If you don't like it: don't buy it!
Simply as that.
Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
JohnNewman:Test your purchases before you buy them. If a store is any good then they will let you borrow a lead or allow you to view the product in store before you buy.If you like it: buy it!If you don't like it: don't buy it!Simply as that.Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
Please expand.ÿ
Please expand.ÿ
Sliced Bread
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Tarquinh:
JohnNewman:Test your purchases before you buy them. If a store is any good then they will let you borrow a lead or allow you to view the product in store before you buy.If you like it: buy it!If you don't like it: don't buy it!Simply as that.Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
Please expand.ÿ
Simple:
If you can see a difference then buy one...if you can't see a difference (or think the difference is not worth the money) then don't buy one. (To me it was worth it...especially as mine was free with WHF at one of the shows and yes I could see a difference
)
I think it's great if people are posting facts / experiences to compare with a view to discovering the truth of an issue, however I have seen some of the comments posted on this thread before they were removed by the moderator and to be honest they are rude. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but it should always be expressed fairly and without slanderous comments.
JohnNewman:Test your purchases before you buy them. If a store is any good then they will let you borrow a lead or allow you to view the product in store before you buy.If you like it: buy it!If you don't like it: don't buy it!Simply as that.Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
Please expand.ÿ
Simple:
If you can see a difference then buy one...if you can't see a difference (or think the difference is not worth the money) then don't buy one. (To me it was worth it...especially as mine was free with WHF at one of the shows and yes I could see a difference
I think it's great if people are posting facts / experiences to compare with a view to discovering the truth of an issue, however I have seen some of the comments posted on this thread before they were removed by the moderator and to be honest they are rude. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but it should always be expressed fairly and without slanderous comments.
idc
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Tarquinh: Don't worry about being rude about the French, they are rude about themselves quite often. That French restaurant wouldn't be one in Edinburgh, would it?
No it was in Glasgow, called Froggies and it no longer exists as a French restaurant. The owner is back in France having done the wise thing and sold up whilst the going was good My wife is thankfully out of that very unsociable line of work.
I know this is completely off topic, but what is the hifi scene like in France? I would imagine that style systems do very well and bespoke cable maunfacturers do not.
No it was in Glasgow, called Froggies and it no longer exists as a French restaurant. The owner is back in France having done the wise thing and sold up whilst the going was good My wife is thankfully out of that very unsociable line of work.
I know this is completely off topic, but what is the hifi scene like in France? I would imagine that style systems do very well and bespoke cable maunfacturers do not.
idc
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JohnNewman:.....I think it's great if people are posting facts / experiences to compare with a view to discovering the truth of an issue....
Spot on John. I want these threads to become a light hearted, but still informative search for the answer. For me the means and quality of construction of a cable has to be the key. On a number of occasions mention has been made of how on long lengths of cable the signal will degrade. So it must start doing so on shorter lengths and maybe this is more noticeable that otherwise accepted. There is also the 'QED claim of headroom'. By that I presume they mean somehow the signal is given more room to move freely and not interfer with itself, or is that just bogus science?
Spot on John. I want these threads to become a light hearted, but still informative search for the answer. For me the means and quality of construction of a cable has to be the key. On a number of occasions mention has been made of how on long lengths of cable the signal will degrade. So it must start doing so on shorter lengths and maybe this is more noticeable that otherwise accepted. There is also the 'QED claim of headroom'. By that I presume they mean somehow the signal is given more room to move freely and not interfer with itself, or is that just bogus science?
professorhat
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The headroom mentioned is very simply the cable has been built to deal with bandwidths greater than the 10.2 Gbps required for the HDMI 1.3 specification (as described here). By building and testing their cables to ensure they can deliver this higher bandwidth (i.e. allowing "headroom"), it should ensure there are no issues with picture or sound caused by lack of bandwidth.
JohnNewman:Tarquinh:
JohnNewman:Test your purchases before you buy them. If a store is any good then they will let you borrow a lead or allow you to view the product in store before you buy.If you like it: buy it!If you don't like it: don't buy it!Simply as that.Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
Please expand.ÿ
Simple:If you can see a difference then buy one...if you can't see a difference (or think the difference is not worth the money) then don't buy one. (To me it was worth it...especially as mine was free with WHF at one of the shows and yes I could see a difference
)I think it's great if people are posting facts / experiences to compare with a view to discovering the truth of an issue, however I have seen some of the comments posted on this thread before they were removed by the moderator and to be honest they are rude. Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but it should always be expressed fairly and without slanderous comments.
Yes, I agree actually. As I said, these are just bits of wire, not the holy grail, and if they work for you, fine. My objections have always been as I stated earlier. Agree about the comments, but can't make one about them. ÿ
JohnNewman:Test your purchases before you buy them. If a store is any good then they will let you borrow a lead or allow you to view the product in store before you buy.If you like it: buy it!If you don't like it: don't buy it!Simply as that.Attacking people / organisations for there views on the subject just seems a bit childish to me.
Please expand.ÿ
Simple:If you can see a difference then buy one...if you can't see a difference (or think the difference is not worth the money) then don't buy one. (To me it was worth it...especially as mine was free with WHF at one of the shows and yes I could see a difference
Yes, I agree actually. As I said, these are just bits of wire, not the holy grail, and if they work for you, fine. My objections have always been as I stated earlier. Agree about the comments, but can't make one about them. ÿ
idc:
Tarquinh: Don't worry about being rude about the French, they are rude about themselves quite often. That French restaurant wouldn't be one in Edinburgh, would it?ÿÿ
No it was in Glasgow, called Froggiesÿand it no longer exists as a French restaurant. The ownerÿis back in France having done the wise thing and sold up whilst the going was good My wife is thankfully out of that very unsociable line of work.
I know this is completely off topic, but what is the hifi scene like in France? I would imagine that style systems do very well and bespoke cable maunfacturers do not.
Ah Froggies of course, should have guessed! ÿ
Hi Fi s a mix, actually, just as it is in the UK. There are also many local brands which don't seem to make it across the channel, at least not with great success - Triangle, Cabasse, YBA, Focal have been quite successful, but others, such as Advance Acoustics, Atoll, Carat and Vecteur don't seem to survive the trip. The voicing of components especially speakers tends toward the energetic - if you've heard Triangle you'll know what I mean - and it does take a period of adjustment if you want to support the local industry and buy French gear. British HiFi is highly regarded.
Yes, there's a big market for style systems, and ipods rule.
My local HiFi shop makes its own cable, as do a few of others I've run across. There's less money to spend on HiFi, and most people I know, except the Naimies, use decent budget cables.ÿÿ
Tarquinh: Don't worry about being rude about the French, they are rude about themselves quite often. That French restaurant wouldn't be one in Edinburgh, would it?ÿÿ
No it was in Glasgow, called Froggiesÿand it no longer exists as a French restaurant. The ownerÿis back in France having done the wise thing and sold up whilst the going was good My wife is thankfully out of that very unsociable line of work.
I know this is completely off topic, but what is the hifi scene like in France? I would imagine that style systems do very well and bespoke cable maunfacturers do not.
Ah Froggies of course, should have guessed! ÿ
Hi Fi s a mix, actually, just as it is in the UK. There are also many local brands which don't seem to make it across the channel, at least not with great success - Triangle, Cabasse, YBA, Focal have been quite successful, but others, such as Advance Acoustics, Atoll, Carat and Vecteur don't seem to survive the trip. The voicing of components especially speakers tends toward the energetic - if you've heard Triangle you'll know what I mean - and it does take a period of adjustment if you want to support the local industry and buy French gear. British HiFi is highly regarded.
Yes, there's a big market for style systems, and ipods rule.
My local HiFi shop makes its own cable, as do a few of others I've run across. There's less money to spend on HiFi, and most people I know, except the Naimies, use decent budget cables.ÿÿ
professorhat
Well-known member
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I guess the counter argument is, if the HDMI 1.3 spec is designed for future requirements, there isn't any reason why headroom should be needed, since 10.2 Gbps is way more than required for standard 1080p video and HD audio sound (I have no opinion either way on this by the way).
At the end of the day, marketing spiels should always be taken with a pinch of salt - just look at a recent TV company that described their TV was able to produce "inifinte blacks", whatever that means! Performance is all that counts, not what they write on the box.
At the end of the day, marketing spiels should always be taken with a pinch of salt - just look at a recent TV company that described their TV was able to produce "inifinte blacks", whatever that means! Performance is all that counts, not what they write on the box.
professorhat:
The headroom mentioned is very simply the cable has been built to deal with bandwidths greater than the 10.2 Gbps required for the HDMI 1.3 specification (as described here). By building and testing their cables to ensure they can deliver this higher bandwidth (i.e. allowing "headroom"), it should ensure there are no issues with picture or sound caused by lack of bandwidth.
Wonder why they did not just call it greater bandwidth instead of "Headroom", or is it just another name to baffle people with.Edit.As you say though 10.2GBS is a tremendous amount of bandwidth anyway and way over what is needed.
The headroom mentioned is very simply the cable has been built to deal with bandwidths greater than the 10.2 Gbps required for the HDMI 1.3 specification (as described here). By building and testing their cables to ensure they can deliver this higher bandwidth (i.e. allowing "headroom"), it should ensure there are no issues with picture or sound caused by lack of bandwidth.
Wonder why they did not just call it greater bandwidth instead of "Headroom", or is it just another name to baffle people with.Edit.As you say though 10.2GBS is a tremendous amount of bandwidth anyway and way over what is needed.
Very interesting replies indeed.
I think the main reason why this topic might seem controversial is because the differences are not so easy to detect and all of us have different abilities when it comes to sight and sound.
I think the only way to settle this is to get an F1 driver (who is supposed to have superior eagle eyesight, i.e. better than 20/20 vision) to take a look but even then it would still be judgemental on what is deemed to be "better".
As for all the marketing words, no need to get hung up on it. BMW calls itself the "ultimate" driving machine and while BMWs are great cars, are they really better than say a Ferrari, Porshe, etc. that cost a whole lot more?
I think the main reason why this topic might seem controversial is because the differences are not so easy to detect and all of us have different abilities when it comes to sight and sound.
I think the only way to settle this is to get an F1 driver (who is supposed to have superior eagle eyesight, i.e. better than 20/20 vision) to take a look but even then it would still be judgemental on what is deemed to be "better".
As for all the marketing words, no need to get hung up on it. BMW calls itself the "ultimate" driving machine and while BMWs are great cars, are they really better than say a Ferrari, Porshe, etc. that cost a whole lot more?
I'm torn between two religions here, digital engineer by day and HiFi zealot by night, so here's my tup'pence worth.
As long as the digital cable (including optical) is properly constructed to the electrical specification for the signal conductivity it was designed for, not defect and over relatively short distances, technically there can be no difference.
I can't see or hear "warmer" zero's or one's and no more or less "air" between musical notes being decoded from a digital stream.
When it comes to analogue cables such as speaker cables and such, there is a world of difference as analogue factors such as resistance, induction and frequency losses all play a factor.
Finally, I don't see the "super mains cable" thing, I'm sorry.
The AC current is converted to DC as soon as it hits the unit.
As long as the cable is rated for the AC load it's supplying and sufficiently well sheilded from interference then that's all it can offer.
If you've ever had to service a piece of modern hifi or AV equipment, you'll find that inside, the various boards and components are interconnected by the cheapest possible wiring soldered by robots and not lovingly connected by gold oxygen-free supercable using oesoteric gold solder compounds.
Granted, amplifier construction such as a beefier power supply will make the sound better as it will be able to ensure the output stages have enough power for those cresendos and a better engineered CD transport will result in less error correction which can easily be audiably detected, but short of that, I can't see (and haven't seen) different digital cables making any concernable difference at all.
Where does it end?
Should all the internal wiring in an amp be replaced by supercable or a solid copper bus system?
Perhaps our rack should be enclosed in a vacuum and superchilled to increase electrical conductivity?
At the end of the day, even on the best digital systems ever concieved, what we are all hearing is an approximation of the original music anyway, a mere sample that represents what was travelling through the air at the time the singer sung or violin plucked.
I've been in countless recording studios and trust me, they are rarely connected up with these SuperCables.
Yes, good quality, sturdy connecting cables but never any of the big bucks stuff.
In saying that, if you, dear listner, can percieve a difference and it makes you happy, by all means go out and spend £xxx on the latest Silver EmperorsNewClothes SuperCable MK5, but I feel the money would be better spent and sonically more rewarding, in investing in a better amplifier or loudspeaker design, a field where real improvements can be made.
My above comments are just that, my comments based on what I come across on a daily basis as a sound engineer.
I don't wish to be argumental, but rather to put my own personal view across.
One of the many refreshing things about the forums here is the healthy discussions and debates that rage on between these pages, but sometimes you have to put fingers to keyboard and say something!
Enjoy, and remember, it's all about the music
Tonya - out.
* Note to self - place cat amongst pigeons : check! *
As long as the digital cable (including optical) is properly constructed to the electrical specification for the signal conductivity it was designed for, not defect and over relatively short distances, technically there can be no difference.
I can't see or hear "warmer" zero's or one's and no more or less "air" between musical notes being decoded from a digital stream.
When it comes to analogue cables such as speaker cables and such, there is a world of difference as analogue factors such as resistance, induction and frequency losses all play a factor.
Finally, I don't see the "super mains cable" thing, I'm sorry.
The AC current is converted to DC as soon as it hits the unit.
As long as the cable is rated for the AC load it's supplying and sufficiently well sheilded from interference then that's all it can offer.
If you've ever had to service a piece of modern hifi or AV equipment, you'll find that inside, the various boards and components are interconnected by the cheapest possible wiring soldered by robots and not lovingly connected by gold oxygen-free supercable using oesoteric gold solder compounds.
Granted, amplifier construction such as a beefier power supply will make the sound better as it will be able to ensure the output stages have enough power for those cresendos and a better engineered CD transport will result in less error correction which can easily be audiably detected, but short of that, I can't see (and haven't seen) different digital cables making any concernable difference at all.
Where does it end?
Should all the internal wiring in an amp be replaced by supercable or a solid copper bus system?
Perhaps our rack should be enclosed in a vacuum and superchilled to increase electrical conductivity?
At the end of the day, even on the best digital systems ever concieved, what we are all hearing is an approximation of the original music anyway, a mere sample that represents what was travelling through the air at the time the singer sung or violin plucked.
I've been in countless recording studios and trust me, they are rarely connected up with these SuperCables.
Yes, good quality, sturdy connecting cables but never any of the big bucks stuff.
In saying that, if you, dear listner, can percieve a difference and it makes you happy, by all means go out and spend £xxx on the latest Silver EmperorsNewClothes SuperCable MK5, but I feel the money would be better spent and sonically more rewarding, in investing in a better amplifier or loudspeaker design, a field where real improvements can be made.
My above comments are just that, my comments based on what I come across on a daily basis as a sound engineer.
I don't wish to be argumental, but rather to put my own personal view across.
One of the many refreshing things about the forums here is the healthy discussions and debates that rage on between these pages, but sometimes you have to put fingers to keyboard and say something!
Enjoy, and remember, it's all about the music
Tonya - out.
* Note to self - place cat amongst pigeons : check! *
one of the most interesting threads ive read.
adding to tonyas points - in the digital realm, if the 1s and 0s are read from my blue ray disc and passed from the player all the way to my tv, why dont i buy the cheapest possible components to deliver those 1s and 0s?
Is it possible that a £39.99 unbranded player with a 99p lead delivers exactly the same picture as a £500 player and £100 cable?
adding to tonyas points - in the digital realm, if the 1s and 0s are read from my blue ray disc and passed from the player all the way to my tv, why dont i buy the cheapest possible components to deliver those 1s and 0s?
Is it possible that a £39.99 unbranded player with a 99p lead delivers exactly the same picture as a £500 player and £100 cable?
idc
Well-known member
- Jan 2, 2008
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Tonya:
Yes, good quality, sturdy connecting cables but never any of the big bucks stuff.
Pretty much says it all for me. If you are going to spend time and money or your kit and music abit of pamering with a decent cable seems the sensible thing to do. Hence I recently bought a usb cable for £27. Rubbishy little £5-10 jobs just looked skinny and made in the millions, but I baulked at the £45 designer ones. The main thing was getting a cable with a ferrite core, purely under the principle that everything else I have connected to my laptop has one. I am not going to bother testing against the other 'don't know what it cost came with the hard drive' usb I have.
Yes, good quality, sturdy connecting cables but never any of the big bucks stuff.
Pretty much says it all for me. If you are going to spend time and money or your kit and music abit of pamering with a decent cable seems the sensible thing to do. Hence I recently bought a usb cable for £27. Rubbishy little £5-10 jobs just looked skinny and made in the millions, but I baulked at the £45 designer ones. The main thing was getting a cable with a ferrite core, purely under the principle that everything else I have connected to my laptop has one. I am not going to bother testing against the other 'don't know what it cost came with the hard drive' usb I have.
Tarquinh:idc:
seakingadvice:What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
There have been some lively debates about racks. There was one recentlyÿquestioning What hifi's credibility over reviewing different racks. Speaker stands however come under the generally accepted upgrade that works and there are obvious and unambiguous reasons why that is the case. There is a lot of science to say that HDMI cables should not make any difference, hence the livelyness of those debates.
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.ÿ
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
Beg to differ. My rack made a huge difference. And it wasn't/isn't an expensive brand but one from a small, relatively cheap cabinet maker. Just got a best buy in another mag too and deservedly so. I was also very sceptical once.
ÿ
seakingadvice:What I find really strange is nobody seems to get all emotional about the topic of speaker stands, racks, etc...
There have been some lively debates about racks. There was one recentlyÿquestioning What hifi's credibility over reviewing different racks. Speaker stands however come under the generally accepted upgrade that works and there are obvious and unambiguous reasons why that is the case. There is a lot of science to say that HDMI cables should not make any difference, hence the livelyness of those debates.
It's not that that bothers me. It's the pseudo science that has sprung up, usually championed by the more unscrupulous firms in the hifi cable industry that angers me, and the fact that so many people unquestioningly accept their words as the truth. I do not like seeing people being exploited by people who are basically charlatans.
If someone sees or hears a difference in their cables, fine, and for that person just as true as my not seeing or hearing any difference. However, others should not pretend to justify their industry with something that is frankly quackery.ÿ
I also dislike the quasi-religious stance taken by members of both camps, the whole believer/unbeliever thing, which is tacitly condoned by many in the hifi world. Let's have some focus for supreme being's sake: these are bits of wire, not endeavours to find a reason behind this thing we enjoy called life.
As to racks, everyone knows the answer is Ikea so its no longer a controversy
Beg to differ. My rack made a huge difference. And it wasn't/isn't an expensive brand but one from a small, relatively cheap cabinet maker. Just got a best buy in another mag too and deservedly so. I was also very sceptical once.
ÿ
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