Have my Quad 11Ls highlighted a weakness in my system?

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I have just purchased some original 11Ls from Ebay and some Z2 stands for them to sit on. I have taken these as the first step in upgrading an old system consisting of Mordaunt Short MS25i speakers, Nad 3150 amp and Marantz CD-53. After a few hours listening I am unsure as to whether I like them or not. The imaging and seperation are great, the clarity of mids and highs is spot on but it seems like there is something missing. I know I am missing some of the lower frequencies of the old floorstanders but can't put my finger on what else. They just don't seem to groove like the MS25is and seem a bit clinical.

My question is, as this was the first step in an upgrade process, can this be rectified by changes to the CDP and amp or is this just a character of the 11Ls? I can easily get the money back by selling them on if needs be.

 

[Anonymous]

Let them run in, but you are now suffering from what I like to call "I just bought a hi-fi component which should be to good, but now my music doesn't sound musical anymore, syndrome"...I did it with my Arcam A32...

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah that's about it, just changed to Clapton's reptile album and they sound great, just not so great with other material. They should already be run in as they're second hand so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking of changing the CD player next as it's seen better days..... any suggestions? Probably be a second hand buy again as I like to get more for my hard earned.... thinking maybe the CD73T as it may take some of the harsh edges of the sound which I guess may be down to the Marantz.

 

[gpi]

Sorry to say I auditioned these several years ago and didn't get on with them. Though they have many layers of nice varnish on quality cabinets, which must account for a large proportion of their cost.

 

[Anonymous]

I've just got a pair of 11L2's to use in our bedroom with my old denon separates, they still need running in, but they sound fantastic! Inceredibly detailed and plenty of oomfff for that environment. I also listened to them with my cyrus system and they sound excellent...all be it a too weak for the main system.

Finish is first class too. However we did only get them yesterday so they really do need warming up! Once they've had a decent number of hours through them I'll see how they're performing and may step up to 21 L2s or 22 L2s if they're really good. Otherwise it'll be Dali Ikon 5s or B&W 684s

 

[fr0g]

Jespin:Yeah that's about it, just changed to Clapton's reptile album and they sound great, just not so great with other material. They should already be run in as they're second hand so that shouldn't be a problem.

A large part of things 'running in' is your ears becoming adjusted to the differences.

 

[Anonymous]

fr0g: A large part of things 'running in' is your ears becoming adjusted to the differences.

That's a good point, I'd never looked at it that way. I'll be interested to change back to the MS25is in a few days and then see how they compare. I'm beginning to think the 11Ls are just highlighting the weaknesses in my system, namely the CD player.

 

[a.g.]

dasherdiablo1:I've just got a pair of 11L2's to use in our bedroom with my old denon separates, they still need running in, but they sound fantastic! Inceredibly detailed and plenty of oomfff for that environment. I also listened to them with my cyrus system and they sound excellent...all be it a too weak for the main system.

Interesting... did you find the sound to be a bit bright? I'm considering a Cyrus CD6se to use with my Quad 12L2s. What did you dislike about the sound, if anything?

Give the speakers a few weeks to run in, they sound less "boxed in" after a while.

 

[Anonymous]

The MS speakers you have are a bit of a classic and I can easily imagine that the Quads are not an easy upgrade to make from them. Give them 100 hours of use, do some comparisons and keep the ones you prefer. I wouldn't be surprised if it were MS pair.

 

[Anonymous]

a.g.:dasherdiablo1:I've just got a pair of 11L2's to use in our bedroom with my old denon separates, they still need running in, but they sound fantastic! Inceredibly detailed and plenty of oomfff for that environment. I also listened to them with my cyrus system and they sound excellent...all be it a too weak for the main system.

Interesting... did you find the sound to be a bit bright? I'm considering a Cyrus CD6se to use with my Quad 12L2s. What did you dislike about the sound, if anything?

Give the speakers a few weeks to run in, they sound less "boxed in" after a while.

They are second hand - read a few posts back.

Want to learn a trick to making your speakers better? Toe them in more, and then a bit more again.

Honestly, try it.

 

[a.g.]

Hughes123:a.g.:Give the speakers a few weeks to run in, they sound less "boxed in" after a while.

They are second hand - read a few posts back.

Want to learn a trick to making your speakers better? Toe them in more, and then a bit more again.

Honestly, try it.

It's the original poster's 11Ls that are second hand, not dasherdiablo1's 11L2s.

I have my speakers practically facing me square on. Sounds OK but I really need to spend some quality time getting the position just right.

 

[Anonymous]

a.g.:Hughes123:a.g.:Give the speakers a few weeks to run in, they sound less "boxed in" after a while.

They are second hand - read a few posts back.

Want to learn a trick to making your speakers better? Toe them in more, and then a bit more again.

Honestly, try it.

It's the original poster's 11Ls that are second hand, not dasherdiablo1's 11L2s.

I have my speakers practically facing me square on. Sounds OK but I really need to spend some quality time getting the position just right.

Oh right, sorry!

Getting speaker positioning right is a fine art, yet I have found that the ideal position is having the speakers slightly closer together than the distance I am away, and with the toed in position with the tweeters just a few inches infront of me at an apex of a triangle - oh, and because my Wharfedales are ported, I stick a pair of socks in the port to calm the bass down a bit! Forget port bungs!

 

[Pike900fish]

Jespin:Yeah that's about it, just changed to Clapton's reptile album and they sound great, just not so great with other material. They should already be run in as they're second hand so that shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking of changing the CD player next as it's seen better days..... any suggestions? Probably be a second hand buy again as I like to get more for my hard earned.... thinking maybe the CD73T as it may take some of the harsh edges of the sound which I guess may be down to the Marantz.

I've recently added a CD73T to my system. Been running it for about 2 weeks and I consider it to be a bargain (£200 New from ebay). Some say that arcam gear can be a bit too warm and perhaps not the last word in detail. To my ears, I would disagree. I find the 73T to be perfect with both highs and lows and a well presented mid range. I suppose it also depends what type of music you listen to. with my prog rock and heavy/thrash metal there is plenty of higfh end detail without harshness. I can now listen to my system for hours without fatigue.

I've owned Marant CD players in the past and whilst it was some time ago (my last Marantz being the CD85...1987 vintage) I found them bright but then again I was using Mission speakers at the time.

 

[Anonymous]

Pike900fish:To my ears, I would disagree. I find the 73T to be perfect with both highs and lows and a well presented mid range. I suppose it also depends what type of music you listen to. with my prog rock and heavy/thrash metal there is plenty of higfh end detail without harshness. I can now listen to my system for hours without fatigue.

I'm into prog rock, and I find it just right for it! Please check out my review on it! A good example would be "Yes" "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" can usually result in bleeding ears on some players, but the CD73T seems to have a lovely roll off in treble which reduces the ear grating sound from that guitar solo, and yet it can do the immense starts and stops required to deliver the punch from the great guitar riff.

 

[Pike900fish]

Hughes123:a.g.:Hughes123:a.g.:Give the speakers a few weeks to run in, they sound less "boxed in" after a while.

They are second hand - read a few posts back.
Want to learn a trick to making your speakers better? Toe them in more, and then a bit more again.
Honestly, try it. It's the original poster's 11Ls that are second hand, not dasherdiablo1's 11L2s. I have my speakers practically facing me square on. Sounds OK but I really need to spend some quality time getting the position just right.
Oh right, sorry!
Getting speaker positioning right is a fine art, yet I have found that the ideal position is having the speakers slightly closer together than the distance I am away, and with the toed in position with the tweeters just a few inches infront of me at an apex of a triangle - oh, and because my Wharfedales are ported, I stick a pair of socks in the port to calm the bass down a bit! Forget port bungs!

Yeah agree, it's a mine field this speaker positioning lark. I beleive on another post there have been recommendations to have the speakers about 6ft apart and facing "flat on" to the listening position. I think someone even posted if speakers are closer together (about 4 ft) to toe them out?

Agree with you though that toeing in just in front of the sweet spot and having the speakers positioned about 3/4 of the distance to the listening position apart, is about spot on for my room and taste.

 

[Pike900fish]

Hughes123:Pike900fish:To my ears, I would disagree. I find the 73T to be perfect with both highs and lows and a well presented mid range. I suppose it also depends what type of music you listen to. with my prog rock and heavy/thrash metal there is plenty of higfh end detail without harshness. I can now listen to my system for hours without fatigue.

I'm into prog rock, and I find it just right for it! Please check out my review on it! A good example would be "Yes" "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" can usually result in bleeding ears on some players, but the CD73T seems to have a lovely roll off in treble which reduces the ear grating sound from that guitar solo, and yet it can do the immense starts and stops required to deliver the punch from the great guitar riff.

I'll dig out my copy of 90125 tomorrow, thanks for the tip. I might even do a comparison from CD to Vinyl. is your copy a remasterd or original CD?

 

[Anonymous]

Pike900fish:Hughes123:Pike900fish:To my ears, I would disagree. I find the 73T to be perfect with both highs and lows and a well presented mid range. I suppose it also depends what type of music you listen to. with my prog rock and heavy/thrash metal there is plenty of higfh end detail without harshness. I can now listen to my system for hours without fatigue.

I'm into prog rock, and I find it just right for it! Please check out my review on it! A good example would be "Yes" "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" can usually result in bleeding ears on some players, but the CD73T seems to have a lovely roll off in treble which reduces the ear grating sound from that guitar solo, and yet it can do the immense starts and stops required to deliver the punch from the great guitar riff.

I'll dig out my copy of 90125 tomorrow, thanks for the tip. I might even do a comparison from CD to Vinyl. is your copy a remasterd or original CD?

Mine's the Atco 1984 CD version sadly, but I will buy the Rhino Re-master soon (neither do I have the vinyl!!! idiot, me!) but the difference according to a mate is quite slim, so if you have the re-master then that shouldn't be much different. And please listen to it, it's a great hi-fi tester! I'm currently listening to Close To The Edge at the moment, but I feel Dark Side Of The Moon is coming out in a moment!

"Hello, is that Southern Electric? Yes, could you please feed another 20,000 volts to my bedroom? 'Cause my amp needs it tonight!"

 

[Anonymous]

Once you've had a "full" sound from your setup, with decent low and mid frequency reproduction... and then you remove it by changing to speakers with lesser emphesis on these characteristics, your music will never sound right again - in my opinion.

To me, this is the very heart and soul of the music - no amount of detail, seperation or improved staging can make up for this. Sure, you can upgrade to speakers with good LF/MF and detail etc, but removing good LF/MF will always have you pining for it. No amount of running in will change that!

 

[Anonymous]

jbadman:
Once you've had a "full" sound from your setup, with decent low and mid frequency reproduction... and then you remove it by changing to speakers with lesser emphesis on these characteristics, your music will never sound right again - in my opinion.

To me, this is the very heart and soul of the music - no amount of detail, seperation or improved staging can make up for this. Sure, you can upgrade to speakers with good LF/MF and detail etc, but removing good LF/MF will always have you pining for it. No amount of running in will change that!

Probably the wisest words I have heard anyone on here ever say IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

a.g.:dasherdiablo1:I've just got a pair of 11L2's to use in our bedroom with my old denon separates, they still need running in, but they sound fantastic! Inceredibly detailed and plenty of oomfff for that environment. I also listened to them with my cyrus system and they sound excellent...all be it a too weak for the main system. Interesting... did you find the sound to be a bit bright? I'm considering a Cyrus CD6se to use with my Quad 12L2s. What did you dislike about the sound, if anything? Give the speakers a few weeks to run in, they sound less "boxed in" after a while.

I had a Cyrus CD8, 8 Integrated with some Quad 11Ls a few years back. The Quad and Cyrus worked lovely together.

Funnily enough, I sold my 11Ls to a mate as they went down well with his wife in the looks dept also. He partnered them with some Arcam gear and they sounded awful. Really 'woolly' with nowhere near as much exctiement or detail as the Cyrus combo served up. Of course, this isnt having a go at the electronics, but to my ears, the Arcam and Quads just didnt blend well.

 

[a.g.]

thfcwestlower:
Funnily enough, I sold my 11Ls to a mate as they went down well with his wife in the looks dept also. He partnered them with some Arcam gear and they sounded awful. Really 'woolly' with nowhere near as much exctiement or detail as the Cyrus combo served up. Of course, this isnt having a go at the electronics, but to my ears, the Arcam and Quads just didnt blend well.

(sarcasm mode on)
Well, I'd never have guessed!
(sarcasm mode off)

If you're not sure what I'm on about, check out my thread about interconnects in the Accessories forum. Glad I'm not the only person who's had a bad Arcam/Quad experience.

 

[JoelSim]

It does make me laugh all this Arcams aren't detailed, wooly, bass light, boring business.

Ask Survivor whether he thought mine were any of those things.

 

[matengawhat]

i don't understand the remarks above re cyrus and quad - as both are known to be bright and sound awful together in my opinion - the hf are all over the place - the quad arcam set up is far better a lot smoother and warmer - biggest prob by far is these speakers aren't exciting but they are detailed and clinical - def not a party speaker - more of a chilled out listen. the other thing i would say is postioning makes a massive difference with these prob more than a lot of speakers i have played with - i find they need to be far cloaser together than a lot of spekaers and to placed in free space absolute minimum of 30cm from any walls and pref quite a bit more.

my experience is with the 12l2s which i own and run with arcam kit - maybe the ls didn't suffer from a slightly bright top end

ag i think even when you get your cyrus cdp that you may still be disapointed with the speakers - i'm guessing they may not be your cup of tea and you may find that its them and not your choice in cdp. However what i would say is buy some stands quick and position then properly - i don't know how you have them now but if they are on a desk or shelf or close to a wall they will sound shocking!!!

 

[gpi]

Hughes123:Pike900fish:Hughes123:Pike900fish:To my ears, I would disagree. I find the 73T to be perfect with both highs and lows and a well presented mid range. I suppose it also depends what type of music you listen to. with my prog rock and heavy/thrash metal there is plenty of higfh end detail without harshness. I can now listen to my system for hours without fatigue.

I'm into prog rock, and I find it just right for it! Please check out my review on it! A good example would be "Yes" "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" can usually result in bleeding ears on some players, but the CD73T seems to have a lovely roll off in treble which reduces the ear grating sound from that guitar solo, and yet it can do the immense starts and stops required to deliver the punch from the great guitar riff.

I'll dig out my copy of 90125 tomorrow, thanks for the tip. I might even do a comparison from CD to Vinyl. is your copy a remasterd or original CD?

Mine's the Atco 1984 CD version sadly, but I will buy the Rhino Re-master soon (neither do I have the vinyl!!! idiot, me!) but the difference according to a mate is quite slim, so if you have the re-master then that shouldn't be much different. And please listen to it, it's a great hi-fi tester! I'm currently listening to Close To The Edge at the moment, but I feel Dark Side Of The Moon is coming out in a moment!

"Hello, is that Southern Electric? Yes, could you please feed another 20,000 volts to my bedroom? 'Cause my amp needs it tonight!"

Are you sure that's what you're up to Egor?

 

[Anonymous]

gpi:Hughes123:Pike900fish:Hughes123:Pike900fish:To my ears, I would disagree. I find the 73T to be perfect with both highs and lows and a well presented mid range. I suppose it also depends what type of music you listen to. with my prog rock and heavy/thrash metal there is plenty of higfh end detail without harshness. I can now listen to my system for hours without fatigue.

I'm into prog rock, and I find it just right for it! Please check out my review on it! A good example would be "Yes" "Owner Of a Lonely Heart" can usually result in bleeding ears on some players, but the CD73T seems to have a lovely roll off in treble which reduces the ear grating sound from that guitar solo, and yet it can do the immense starts and stops required to deliver the punch from the great guitar riff.

I'll dig out my copy of 90125 tomorrow, thanks for the tip. I might even do a comparison from CD to Vinyl. is your copy a remasterd or original CD?

Mine's the Atco 1984 CD version sadly, but I will buy the Rhino Re-master soon (neither do I have the vinyl!!! idiot, me!) but the difference according to a mate is quite slim, so if you have the re-master then that shouldn't be much different. And please listen to it, it's a great hi-fi tester! I'm currently listening to Close To The Edge at the moment, but I feel Dark Side Of The Moon is coming out in a moment!

"Hello, is that Southern Electric? Yes, could you please feed another 20,000 volts to my bedroom? 'Cause my amp needs it tonight!"

Are you sure that's what you're up to Egor?

Yep.