Has HiFi improved in the last 10 years?

[Anonymous]

Amps: the entry level stuff is better now than 20 years ago. If you listen to entry-level amps from NAD or CA, they are much more musical than amps from Technics, Sansui, or Pioneer from the 80s.

CDPs: A modern entry-level CDP sounds better than a mid-priced CDP from the 90s. CDPs have improved a lot over the last 15 years or so. This is because digital audio in the 80s and 90s was at its beginnings.

Speakers: I don't think there has been an improvement. When it comes to entry and mid-level speakers from Mission, Tannoy or KEF (to name a few), I prefer models from the late 90s (still made in the UK) than what's being built right now. And vintage models from Altec, JBL or Tannoy can wipe the floor with some of our new slim floorstanders.

IMHO.

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe, but for same money of modern entry level cdp you can get 10 years old top model. The same about amplifiers. So, not too much benefits.

 

[Anonymous]

Tannoyite:

Amps: the entry level stuff is better now than 20 years ago. If you listen to entry-level amps from NAD or CA, they are much more musical than amps from Technics, Sansui, or Pioneer from the 80s.

CDPs: A modern entry-level CDP sounds better than a mid-priced CDP from the 90s. CDPs have improved a lot over the last 15 years or so. This is because digital audio in the 80s and 90s was at its beginnings.

Speakers: I don't think there has been an improvement. When it comes to entry and mid-level speakers from Mission, Tannoy or KEF (to name a few), I prefer models from the late 90s (still made in the UK) than what's being built right now. And vintage models from Altec, JBL or Tannoy can wipe the floor with some of our new slim floorstanders.

IMHO.

amps: ... I disagree

cdp: I partially agree

speakers: I agree

 

[Tom Moreno]

ediots:I think more important will be ask if recording studio gear and sound engineers are improved in the last 10 years. Otherwise there is not too much benefits from latest hi-fi equipment.

Much of the kit we use in the studio today isn't all that different to what was available 10 years ago but we use it much better today. In relation to the gear we had for recording 20 years ago the whole world has changed. Not only that but the way we record music (habits and professionalism across the industry) has changed dramatically.

Recording studio gear was going through a maturing process 10 years ago, ergo the kit we use now (digital audio workstations) was coming along then but was at its infancy and a) the hardware/software combination wasn't as thoroughly thought out and finished to the high level that Pro-Tools and Logic are nowadays, and b) Engineers were for the most part not exploiting the full potential of the digital audio systems yet at that point because they were still adjusting to the change in work flow.

Yes there are going to be those who will say that the recordings we make now on digital decks are never going to sound as good as the old analogue tape decks. I for one feel that the people that say that are a) so completely subscribed to the belief that nothing new will ever be as good as the good old stuff, or b) really not well versed in modern kit and how to get the best sounds out of it (which does require skills).

The biggest difference between now and ten years ago on the recording industry side of the coin is in the cost of professional level (capable) systems (and along with it the proliferation of the bedroom producer) and the complete breakdown of the recording industry in general. I won't go too far into this as it's such a completely depressing state of affairs and one that can potentially hurt the future emergence of unknown acts into the mainstream due to the non-existence of marketing budgets to help break acts anymore.

In a recap to answer the question posed regarding recording equipment...

While we have had the kit in the studio to make great sounding recordings for a few decades now, I do believe that we are now capable of making the best sounding recordings ever with modern gear (in the right hands of course).

With regard to home HIFI kit, I think that amps have largely stayed at a very high level at the top end of the spectrum for quite some time now and good speakers have been excellent for decades. I think that the entry level products have been the largest beneficiaries of time as the quality of these items has improved drastically over the years. The other area that has consistently gotten better has been digital sources such as CD players and then the advent of digital media devices.

 

[Anonymous]

Tom Moreno:

With regard to home HIFI kit, I think that amps have largely stayed at a very high level at the top end of the spectrum for quite some time now and good speakers have been excellent for decades. I think that the entry level products have been the largest beneficiaries of time as the quality of these items has improved drastically over the years. The other area that has consistently gotten better has been digital sources such as CD players and then the advent of digital media devices.

that's what I have been trying to say ... good older amps and good older speakers can still compete with the high end modern equipment of today ... and can be had for a fraction of the cost of modern gear

 

[PJPro]

idc:
chebby:.......Although the recent RoHS compliance to lead free solder and the associated risk of 'whiskering' may come back to bite us all in a few years time.........

According to my engineering buddy that is an absolute certainty.

None of that rubbish used here!

 

[PJPro]

New and better integrated chips are coming out all the time leading to improvements in lower end kit.

 

[a91gti]

dim_span:the record spot:dim_span: no, you don't have wrong kit or poor hearing ... it all boils down to matching the correct components and you have done a fine job by combining the Marantz SA7001 KI, Sansui AU-217 and Mission 752 speakers ...

take the price you paid, and see what you can get new .... dont think you will find anything close to your system that costs 4 (or more) times more

Thanks for the kind words d_s, it's not bad is it!

Let's see, amp £33 (fully serviced at that), CDP £300 (sale, way too good to pass up), speakers £80 - £413. Allow £50 for the interconnect and the same again for the speaker cable and we're up and running at £500 all in say. Would I put this up against a comparably priced system now? I reckon it'd run a good race.

my system:

pioneer sa-9800 amp= £275; B&W speakers = £50; Marantz cdp=£130; silver high breed interconnect=£30; soundstage 5 rack stand=£70; speaker cable = £8

total spent= £563 (and that includes the hifi stand) ...

I'll have a go at this game!

Cdp = £30 inc' postage
Amp = £50 inc' postage
Speakers = £35
I/c = £25
Cat 6 cable = £0

£140 + my time and some solder = much joy.

 

[PJPro]

andrewknight:
I'll have a go at this game!

Cdp = £30 inc' postage
Amp = £50 inc' postage
Speakers = £35
I/c = £25
Cat 6 cable = £0

£140 + my time and some solder = much joy.
So.....from where did you nick the ethernet?

 

[Anonymous]

my cheap system:

pioneer SX700L receiver/amp = £15 from gumtree (and included a pair of AR-2 speakers)-no delivery as was 2 miles away from my home

Pioneer PD-S703 cd player - £3 (mint condition-boxed with instructions) from carboot

Leak Sandwich 200 speakers for £10 of ebay in mint condition with speaker cable with DIN connections (no delivery charge as was 3 miles away from me)

Silver High Breed interconnect - for free when I bought my other one

total spent= £28 and sounds good

 

[a91gti]

@ Pj - I was given a mahoosive reel of the stuff by a geek I used to know. Great cable if a bit fiddly to fit into bananas (2 runs a side with matched pairs from each).

 

[Anonymous]

Tom Moreno:

ediots:I think more important will be ask if recording studio gear and sound engineers are improved in the last 10 years. Otherwise there is not too much benefits from latest hi-fi equipment.

In a recap to answer the question posed regarding recording equipment...

While we have had the kit in the studio to make great sounding recordings for a few decades now, I do believe that we are now capable of making the best sounding recordings ever with modern gear (in the right hands of course).

With regard to home HIFI kit, I think that amps have largely stayed at a very high level at the top end of the spectrum for quite some time now and good speakers have been excellent for decades. I think that the entry level products have been the largest beneficiaries of time as the quality of these items has improved drastically over the years. The other area that has consistently gotten better has been digital sources such as CD players and then the advent of digital media devices.

That sounds promising. Now only music industry are behind with cd 16bit 44.1khz as standart format . I just little afraid that mp3 and ipod generation will kill any progress in higher resolution formats for a standart use. Maybe after 10 years from now we even will not have this kind of discussion about equipment because they just will not care. If it is not on ipod or mobile - it does not exist.

 

[Tom Moreno]

chebby:
Tom Moreno: I do believe that we are now capable of making the best sounding recordings ever with modern gear (in the right hands of course).

So why does there seem (from the evidence of so many new releases) to be a plague of morons operating the equipment? What has happened to loud and soft and all shades between?

I have played many of my daughter's CDs and they sound rubbish. (Not the content, the mix). They sound like brand new televisions look - left on factory defaults - with everything ramped up to 'hurt' level.

Who are these so called producers? Partially deaf 16 year old emo's with no training whatsoever who presumably use their game soundtracks as a benchmark.

If - as you claim - the modern studio gear is so good then what a waste of money!

Well I did say "In the right hands"! Unfortunately the brick-wall limited sound of bad radio has become the signature sound of modern pop music and for that type of material this is what's expected of you. Sometimes this is done in the mastering at the record company's insistence but you'll find quite often producers will do it in the mix anyway. The school of thought is that it will get crushed anyway, better off being you that will do the crushing.

There are some good recordings being released, though much of it would be coming from non-mainstream genres. Recently I finished working on a project for a composer that was recorded with full orchestra and session players at a few reputable studios, and I'll tell you what- it was really nice mixing those recordings. I hope they don't end up getting squeezed too much in mastering because the dynamics sound lovely in them as pre-mastered mixes. I hope to work on more sessions like these but the budgets for large recording sessions has almost completely disappeared these days.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars and this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

 

[chebby]

one off:
chebby check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars and this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

That is sick. It is a bit like restaurants competing with other by demanding that their chefs add more and more salt into dishes until they all reach the point where other ingredients can no longer be tasted and actually become irrelevant.

 

[hammill]

chebby:one off:

chebby check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars and this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression

That is sick. It is a bit like restaurants competing with other by demanding that their chefs add more and more salt into dishes until they all reach the point where other ingredients can no longer be tasted and actually become irrelevant.

I agree, it is very depressing. I do think it is a product of listening in noisy environments, where music with a large dynamic range is very difficult to listen to. I only use an "mp3" player when vacuuming or power washing the car and I don't play music with a wide dynamic range because you either cannot hear the quiet bits or the loud bits take your head off. The problem is that a lot of music is being mastered (or remastered) to only suit this type of listening and music loses so much of its emotional appeal when the dynamics are removed.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

dim_span:
and a follow up to my last post:

todays min wage in the USA is $7.25 ... so, times that by 258 hours and you will have $1870.50 ... (a rough calculation at todays exchange rate will give you £1128.98 ... which will give you a cryus 8xp, a naim nait xs, a Leema pulse, moon i-1, and a few others

some 'excerpts from current WHF reviews:

Naim nait XS: Loses grip on the deepest bass

Leema pulse: Can sound lightweight and querulous

moon i-1:Lacks the detail of the very best; low frequencies could be more taut

and I've never read a bad review on the Pioneer SA-9800

What are you talking about?? Those amps you mention didn't get bad reviews. The Naim, "The Nait XS is as musically engrossing an amplifier as we've heard at this price point. It'll worry the class leaders" 5 stars. The Leema, " For: Decent levels of build; extensive specification; fast, precise sound. Against: Can sound lightweight and querulous if poorly partnered (you missed out that part!), 5 stars. The Moon i-1, " The Moon's lack of all-out precision holds it back from five, but four stars in this competitive sector is still mighty impressive", 4 stars.

Are you telling me that the Pioneer was reviewed and didn't have one slight discrepancy against it??

 

[the record spot]

chebby:one off:
the record spot:Source first an 80s invention? Linn LP12 anyone?no idea really just thought linn and naim were behind the source first thing and the prat thing

woops your right the linn started in 1972

Yes the Ariston RD11 Linn Sondek was first made by Castle Engineering (Ivor's dad's company) in 1972 to a design by Hamish Robertson copied from the Thorens TD150 - itself copied from the original Acoustic Research turntable (designed by Ed Villchur)

Obviously it was a well copied/nicked 1960s unique 80s Linn HAA! invention.

I think the point here is not that the Linn was the first high quality turntable that was built, or that its' design was a radical or new departure from that which had gone before, but that the firm were among the first at the time to promote the idea that the source was the most important element in the chain.

The other manufacturers produced their equipment at a time when the speaker was generally reckoned to be the most important element. Design quality isn't an issue here; those other decks stand up well today and alongside the Garrard 301 and 401 classics of the 50s as well, but the order of importance in which qudio gear was placed relative to other components in a system is.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:

Well mixed/mastered material still sounds excellent on an iPod (or internet radio) despite compression - down to even 128kbps - so the argument that it's ... "...better off being you that will do the crushing." does not really stand up.

Actually, that is because mp3 does not damaging original dynamic range of record.

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:dim_span:

and a follow up to my last post:

todays min wage in the USA is $7.25 ... so, times that by 258 hours and you will have $1870.50 ... (a rough calculation at todays exchange rate will give you £1128.98 ... which will give you a cryus 8xp, a naim nait xs, a Leema pulse, moon i-1, and a few others

some 'excerpts from current WHF reviews:

Naim nait XS: Loses grip on the deepest bass

Leema pulse: Can sound lightweight and querulous

moon i-1:Lacks the detail of the very best; low frequencies could be more taut

and I've never read a bad review on the Pioneer SA-9800

What are you talking about?? Those amps you mention didn't get bad reviews. The Naim, "The Nait XS is as musically engrossing an amplifier as we've heard at this price point. It'll worry the class leaders" 5 stars. The Leema, " For: Decent levels of build; extensive specification; fast, precise sound. Against: Can sound lightweight and querulous if poorly partnered (you missed out that part!), 5 stars. The Moon i-1, " The Moon's lack of all-out precision holds it back from five, but four stars in this competitive sector is still mighty impressive", 4 stars. Are you telling me that the Pioneer was reviewed and didn't have one slight discrepancy against it??

just quoting the WHF reviews ... I never made that up ... read for yourself

Are you telling me that the Pioneer was reviewed and didn't have one slight discrepancy against it?

show me one

 

[biggus_1961]

Yes im still using 20 year old Kef C75 floorstanders bought in 1991..Mid range a and high range are still clear and wide today though more bass would be better or maybe the bass drivers are wearing out.These were the first uni q speakers .

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Chebby ... just winding people up!

still would love to find a review of the Sa-9800 ... have searched far and wide and not found one ... can however say that I have never read a bad comment from people who own them

 

[Anonymous]

i think it has improved the amp has imo but speakers i am not so sure about
i have 27 year old rogers ls/35a bbc speakers, and i keep going back to them
as i upgrade my hifi ,these are a classic speakers and still sing afer all these yrs
and still work perfectly, they also sell for silly money on ebay but i like them so
much i wont part with them my friends also love what they do for such a small speaker,
anyone else own them if so what do you think of them..

 

[Anonymous]

The LS3/5a speakers are legendary and highly sought after ... some are fetching £1500+ and people from the far east are buying like crazy as these are superb for a home cinema setup aswell as for hifi ...

there were different compaines producing these LS3/5A speakers and as far as I am aware, the Chartwell ones are the best ... here is an interesting comparisson/shootout

http://www.ls35a.com/ scroll a bit down the page and click on the link LS3/5A shootout

 

[rw574]

Can you recommend a good Frontloader Cd player?Its to go with B & W CDM1 speakers and possibly Rega Elex or Elicit Amps.A couple of years ago I asked advice about replacing the CD player and Amp. in a (year 2000) system consisting of Arcam 8SE CDplayer,Arcam Alpha 9 Amp. and B & W CDM1 speakers.The Arcam Cd player is malfunctioning despite being repaired once and the Arcam components were a lot of trouble originally so I would rather avoid this make in future.I got a bit sidetracked after getting advice on this forum (Sub Arachnoid Haemorrhage and moving house) but am now looking again to replace the Cd player and Amp.I recently listened to the originally recommended Rega Apollo and Saturn Cd players and the Rega Brio,Elex and Elicit Amps (with modern B & W speakers)and liked the Saturn and Elex or Elicit combination but found operating the Toploaders difficult-it would be a deterrent to using it I think as my manual dexterity is impaired by age and several operations for Dupuytrens.Can you recommend a good Frontloader Cd player or Cd player Amp combination?Would the Cyrus CDi go well with this set-up?My taste in music is eclectic-Dinah Washington,Artie Shaw,Bob Dylan,Oasis,light classical-nothing very loud.Thanks,RVW.