Has HiFi improved in the last 10 years?

[lindsayt]

In real terms, adjusted for inflation, Kef LS50's are more expensive than Heybrook HB2's from 1982. It'd be interesting to get these 2 speakers together for a bake-off. I suspect the HB2's would win. In which case: so much for budget speakers improving over 35 years, never mind 10.

For amplifiers I'd pitch a Creek CAS4040 against anything today costing £350.

For digital sources I'd pitch a Philips CD751 against any digital source from 2017.

 

[Gazzip]

Not sure if hifi quality has improved over the last 10 years, but I think listener perception of what constitutes quality has degraded over the last 20 years or so. We all live in our little hyper-bubbles these days, happily accepting everyday what we are told is “best” by our like minded bubbleites, however false that information may actually be. Woe-betide any bubbleite who expresses a different opinion or actually try to pass on first hand experience. Time to find yer own bubble, pal!
Combine this with a music industry which is hell bent on detrimentally reducing music file sizes and compressing the crap out of our music, and which ran out of creative ideas in the 1990’s, we have a real problem. The current solution appears to be to just create an incredible amount of this flavourless dross and present an endless supply of it to you on a platform which plays low res versions of albums that you will never (or want to) own. Is it any wonder that the youth of today don’t have a clue? If you don’t know what well recorded and mastered music actually sounds like then how on earth can you make an informed decision about what will play it back well? Now where did I leave my Dre Beats and Galaxy Edge?

 

[chebby]

Is it any wonder that the youth of today don’t have a clue? Now where did I leave my Dre Beats and Galaxy Edge?

Try using what the youth of 50 years ago had (knackered Dansette style record multi-changers with ceramic stylii), or 40 years ago (first generation Walkman cassette players and so-called ‘ghetto blaster’ portable cassette/radios), or 25 years ago (all-in-one Alba/Binatone/no-name plastic CD/cassette/radio micro system from Argos or your mum’s catalogue.)

Yeah, i’ll take the ‘Galaxy Edge ‘and Bose or Beats cans compared to that pile of sh**!

 

[Gazzip]

Is it any wonder that the youth of today don’t have a clue? Now where did I leave my Dre Beats and Galaxy Edge?

Try using what the youth of 50 years ago had (knackered Dansette style record multi-changers with ceramic stylii), or 40 years ago (first generation Walkman cassette players and so-called ‘ghetto blaster’ portable cassette/radios), or 25 years ago (all-in-one Alba/Binatone/no-name plastic CD/cassette/radio micro system from Argos or your mum’s catalogue.)

Yeah, i’ll take the ‘Galaxy Edge ‘and Bose or Beats cans compared to that pile of sh**!

I think you may have missed the point. *pardon*

 

[chebby]

Site software hiccough.

 

[chebby]

I think you may have missed the point. *pardon*

What? That everything today is crap? Gottit.

Music nowadays is crap, loudness war is crap, ‘kids’ consuming music in a way their elders disapprove of (nothing new there) is crap, compressed MP3s ... crap ... etc. I can get this kind of thing from old ladies in any doctor’s waiting room or bus-stop.

I think this is the ‘Golden Age’ of hi-fi technology (with a reservation or two about lead-free solder acknowledged above).

 

[Gazzip]

I think you may have missed the point. *pardon*

What? That everything today is crap? Gottit.

Music nowadays is crap, loudness war is crap, ‘kids’ consuming music in a way their elders disapprove of (nothing new there) is crap, compressed MP3s ... crap ... etc. I can get this kind of thing from old ladies in any doctor’s waiting room or bus-stop.

I think this is the ‘Golden Age’ of hi-fi technology (with a reservation or two about lead-free solder acknowledged above).

I am actually far more concerned about the way “kids” are being manipulated by their social media bubbles in to partisan groups who collectively “know” what is best, without ever making any of their own primary, informed decisions. This leaves them devoid of the ability and/or desire to make a self-determined judgement of what is good and what is bad. Why go and try anything for yourself if you can save yourself half a day and watch it on YouTube instead? “Hang on! That YouTube video is disagreeing with my groupthink on that subject. No bother if I watch a few more i’ll find some that match my social groups preconceptions and normality will be restored.”.

All of the above can be applied to hifi and reviews (this forum included). You may have got that If you had read my post properly.

 

[ellisdj]

surely "has ones hifi improved in the last 10 years?" is a more pertinent question to ask?

 

[chebby]

All of the above can be applied to hifi and reviews (this forum included). You may have got that If you had read my post properly.

Yeah sorry, I am in the bad kid’s bubble! They have led me astray with their smart phones and AirPlay and ripping, downloading and streaming.

I followed the path of righteousness until about 2009 (Naim separates, vinyl and Rega TT, FM etc.) but now I am having more fun.

 

[chebby]

surely "has ones hifi improved in the last 10 years?" is a more pertinent question to ask?

No. In terms of brand and build (and ultimate performance) etc. it’s far less ‘prestigious’ now, but I use it for a longer portion of the day, every day, compared to 10 years ago when a third of it (Naim CD5i-2) lived in a box under the stairs and it didn’t inspire me.

 

[jmjones]

The Oppo unit I have beats the nails out of any playing device I’ve owned previously, largely due to its flexibility and it enables me to keep my Tags “on the road” so to speak.

You may be able to beat my amplifiers, but what would I have to spend to replace them?

Spotify from the large TV, hi-res files via the Oppo, vinyl if you like? Get wiv da yoof folks.

If the point is quality of playback, I would suggest there is a lot of vintage kit that can do the job at a very reasonable price. If you want unlimited music for tenner a month, surround music formats, streaming and lord knows what else, TODAY is always where it is at.

 

[ellisdj]

surely "has ones hifi improved in the last 10 years?" is a more pertinent question to ask?

No. In terms of brand and build (and ultimate performance) etc. it’s far less ‘prestigious’ now, but I use it for a longer portion of the day, every day, compared to 10 years ago when a third of it (Naim CD5i-2) lived in a box under the stairs and it didn’t inspire me.

I find that hard to fathom - my system before I started the review channel wass a country mile from what I was listening to 10 years prior - I would hope in 10 years time it is again.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

god gazzip and chebby you are sounding so unbelievably snobby and ‘ageist’. On the one hand gazzip you are talking about dross current music, then you say it’s about a group think with the current youngsters, so by extension your group think must be of a different time of a different generation of musical taste. So in a way you are no different with your group think. The youngsters can say your group think is in this genre too.

I struggle with the fact that people who have the very best hi fis are not open to current music. They are stuck in a time warp. I know premium hi Fi it’s largely a middle aged or older thing, and we get stuck in our ways as we get older, but for goodness sake you are missing out on great current and new artists if your views are current music is rubbish. You really just need to look. Can you imagine any serious musician and songwriter worth their salt, like Paul McCartney, coming out and saying current stuff is rubbish.

 

[BigH]

Yes but thats because you have spend a load more money on it? I think we need to compare like for like, yes of course you can improve most systems by spending more money. After many years I went for some demos for an upgrade, I was quite surprised at how poor some speakers were, yes they may have new materials and they sound different but most did not sound better to me. Cd players I was expecting a leap but there was very little difference. Despite what hifi reviews say I don't think their has been a huge improvement and in some ways things have got worse, products don't seem so reliable now and are more flimsily built. What has changed is the way people listen to music. Did you stream music 20 years ago?

 

[chebby]

I find that hard to fathom - my system before I started the review channel wass a country mile from what I was listening to 10 years prior - I would hope in 10 years time it is again.

I just started finding far more content that I enjoyed and flexibility (and way more fun) after the split from the traditional separates ‘upgrade path’ and other such nonsense.

It was a little like going from photography with two SLR bodies + lenses + filters + tripod etc. to wandering around town and countryside with a good quality point & shoot. Your back and neck no longer ache and you can enjoy longer, nicer walks and take time to soak in the ambience of where you are rather than obsessing about the gear. Compromises are made, yes, but learning a new way of looking is fun too.

 

[ellisdj]

Yes but thats because you have spend a load more money on it? I think we need to compare like for like, yes of course you can improve most systems by spending more money. After many years I went for some demos for an upgrade, I was quite surprised at how poor some speakers were, yes they may have new materials and they sound different but most did not sound better to me. Cd players I was expecting a leap but there was very little difference. Despite what hifi reviews say I don't think their has been a huge improvement and in some ways things have got worse, products don't seem so reliable now and are more flimsily built. What has changed is the way people listen to music. Did you stream music 20 years ago?

I get that BigH and I have just been thinking that is how my comment might have come across - I appreciate financial constraints are always at play - they are for me as well.

But I was actually meaning 10 years is a very long time in a hobby - to learn, try, test and mess about. I dont think its always about spending tons of money to get an improvement.

I was thinking is hifi more like Fishing or Formula One.

In Fishing you can have the best rod, reels and bait and yet a chap will turn up with bamboo, string and bread and out catch you all day either by luck obviosuly or by better craft.

Or is HiFi more like Formula One where the tech will always beat out the craft?

I think its a bit of both but if HiFi hasnt improved in the last 10 years its down to the individual to better their craft in order to get better sound - this doesnt necessarily cost anything.

 

[Gazzip]

god gazzip and chebby you are sounding so unbelievably snobby and ‘ageist’. On the one hand gazzip you are talking about dross current music, then you say it’s about a group think with the current youngsters, so by extension your group think must be of a different time of a different generation of musical taste. So in a way you are no different with your group think. The youngsters can say your group think is in this genre too.

I struggle with the fact that people who have the very best hi fis are not open to current music. They are stuck in a time warp. I know premium hi Fi it’s largely a middle aged or older thing, and we get stuck in our ways as we get older, but for goodness sake you are missing out on great current and new artists if your views are current music is rubbish. You really just need to look. Can you imagine any serious musician and songwriter worth their salt, like Paul McCartney, coming out and saying current stuff is rubbish.

Current music is not all rubbish, but a lot of it is. A lot of it is also terribly recorded/mastered. A lot of it is also not available to buy other than digitally in a lossy format. This probably explains why many owners of high end gear are time warped as you put it - because that type of music sounds god awful through anything higher end than Bose SoundDock. (Which aren’t that bad actually!)

Most of my exposure to the music of da youff is at work where I let them play their Spotify playlists all day long in the studio through some cheapish PC actives. As I say it is not all bad and sometimes I feel stirred to see what’s playing and make a note of it for later. Mostly however I just want to put my head under a pillow and cry. Seriously, what is musically talented about talking aggressively over an 80’s or 90’s classic with a grimsey beat added for good measure?! I weep.

My concerns for the current crop of Millennials goes far deeper than their musical tastes. I employ predominantly 25 to 35 year olds (by chance I should add, not by selection) and never have I met a cohort which exhibits such internal conflict and contradiction. Altruistic yet self-centred; confident yet unable to communicate one-on-one; professionally ambitious yet focused on the door at 5:55pm every day. Such a sense of entitlement and narcissistic beyond all comprehension. And they don’t drink!

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I think it’s incredibly easy to look at young people in their 20s and below as having characteristics which appear unpalatable, lest we forget our parents generation probably had the same ‘hang ups’ of their offsprings generation. But I have some empathy for the modern world way of living which is very selfish anyway and it’s becoming more and more about the self to survive. People are out the door ‘on time’ because they probably have to travel longer where they once didn’t. More pressure to work longer anyway, closer access to communications where they are often always answerable or contactable, and the requirements of staff to do more for less with the pressures on businesses in a modern high cost world. Compare a Secretary in 1977 to one in 2017, they probably travel a long way into London to get to work now where in 1977 they lived round the corner in a flat in London, now only affordable for an oligark. I think you have to be self centred at work as the culture of most organisations recognises and promotes it, if it makes someone a character to clients but by the same token they make money for the firm. Nobody really cares in management if they are an arseh-le to most of the staff, the rest of the time. Depends on firm of course though.

 

[jmjones]

Gazzip,

I would suggest that your latter comments would prove Quest’s comments correct. Either your view of younger people needs amending or the working environment you are in is odd to say the least.

And as for rubbish music today? Well my generation put Ernie the Milkman and Agadoo to the top of the charts!! Plus poor cover versions all over the place. How about a Telly Savalas monologue?

 

[Gazzip]

Gazzip,

I would suggest that your latter comments would prove Quest’s comments correct. Either your view of younger people needs amending or the working environment you are in is odd to say the least.

And as for rubbish music today? Well my generation put Ernie the Milkman and Agadoo to the top of the charts!! Plus poor cover versions all over the place. How about a Telly Savalas monologue?

As a Generation X-er my views on the Snowflake Generation Y are not particularly unique or draconian. They are quite commonly held actually, especially in the workplace amongst Generation X employers and managers like myself. What I describe isn’t an “odd” workplace, it is the workplace of today where productivity and professional “on the job” knowledge is falling away steeply. To be replaced by... well nobody knows yet really. Perhaps I am finally getting old!

I did have to laugh when I read your comment in bold above. In consideration that the snowflake generation are often considered too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own, that is the most snowflakey statement I have read in a while, and made by a generation X-er to boot!

As for my views on contemporary music I stand by them. A lot of it is complete crap in both content and production quality.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I’d just try and understand from their point of view. When doing that one emphathises we are no different as we are all the same.

 

[Gazzip]

I’d just try and understand from their point of view. When doing that one emphathises we are no different as we are all the same.

Quest, they all drink expensive coffee, own £500 phones (always the latest model) dress well, belong to the gym, buy their lunch out everyday and holiday in exotic places three or four times a year. They then moan that they have no money and can’t afford to get on the housing ladder. We are not all the same. It is a matter of priorities. Some of us know what to struggle actually meant a few years ago but this is the first generation that isn’t prepared to sacrifice anything for their “entitlement” to everything on a plate. I am lucky enough to own the company and I still take a pack lunch everyday and make my own coffee for Christ’s sake!

 

[jmjones]

Other than to say my point was that every generation has a high % of cr*p/novelty/rerun music.

On the “Generation X” opinion, then everybody turns into Victor Meldrew eventually. Gen X is well in there. We talk about Expectation Bias a lot on this forum, and there is no stronger one than thinking the younger generation is poor. You should address it.

As for the problems of “on the job” experience, I think it’s rather obvious why. We spend little on training these days expecting somehow that school prepares people for the world of work. Gen X has implemented some of the worst decisions on employment for decades (pensions, zero hours contracts, etc). But we expect a better work ethic? I laugh when I hear company reps talk about difficulty recruiting talent. Try creating talent - works every time.

I’ve had the privilege of working for several “older brands” and the work ethic remains good when people are trained and paid accordingly. Young people there are surrounded by a more traditional mentality, and do well within it, reflecting the values of the company that employs them. During my time doing it, I’ve been involved with bringing servicemen into manufacturing industry. Take it from me, the young generation is the same it always was, given the chance.

And when you have some time, I could take you for a walk to see some of the ex-services engineers we employ. You could call them “snowflake”, and check out the reaction.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I don’t think the younger generation do moan, they are just anxious of the future which will all have at that age. With housing it is difficult and it is a case of priorities but not many young people can afford buying houses in all circumstances, where this was once the case where multiples of earnings to house price were 1:3, now it’s commonly 1:7+. disposable incomes are lower too with the higher rents people pay especially if you are around London.

I worked for a central London firm in one of my first jobs and everyone in the company, of about a 1000 people, was given a free £1000 holiday. I was only about 25. I went to Thailand and Singapore. Everyone was buzzing. So I’d say if they are buying posh coffee and you are making your own Nescafé or whatever, instead of spending £500 on a furman, get a really posh coffee maker for your studio so they don’t buy Costa coffee or whatever, and they won’t be in the morning coffee shop on the way to work but doing work for you instead. Plus your interests are more aligned.

 

[BigH]

Yes but interest rates are so low, when I bought my first house the interest rate went from 10% to 15%. People don't tend to save these days, everything on credit, buying loads of new things and yes everyone has a mobile phone now.