Has Bluetooth made it to being considered "good sound" these days?

[robdmarsh]

I run Amazon music HD via my phone to my ifi Zen Blue with an analogue connection to my amp. This means I'm using the DAC in the Zen blue and not the amp of course. I think the sound quality is pretty good. I dare say the DAC in the Zen is probably slightly better than the one amp (Denon pma 800ne) but I haven't tried an optical connection.
Anyway, I'm wondering if streaming like this am I really missing that much from not using a dedicated streamer. When I play tracks labelled "ultra HD" on Amazon, it sometimes says that the lossless quality is preserved at 24bit/ 96Khz but if the original is 24bit/ 192khz it is usually downsized (I think). Now, I know there are higher res files than that but I read somewhere that bluetooth always compresses file sizes but now I'm not sure if this is the case.
The other question of course is can we really hear the difference between tracks sampled at a higher rate than 24/192? So if the latest bluetooth codecs are coming close to replicating uncompressed file sizes, what are we gaining by buying a dedicated streamer? The obvious answer would be in the quality of DAC in the streamer. But if that were the case, wouldn't a very good DAC in a bluetooth receiver take that receiver to be just about on par with a streamer?
If what I'm saying is way off where bluetooth is currently at, then what about in 3 years time?

 

[Tinman1952]

I run Amazon music HD via my phone to my ifi Zen Blue with an analogue connection to my amp. This means I'm using the DAC in the Zen blue and not the amp of course. I think the sound quality is pretty good. I dare say the DAC in the Zen is probably slightly better than the one amp (Denon pma 800ne) but I haven't tried an optical connection.
Anyway, I'm wondering if streaming like this am I really missing that much from not using a dedicated streamer. When I play tracks labelled "ultra HD" on Amazon, it sometimes says that the lossless quality is preserved at 24bit/ 96Khz but if the original is 24bit/ 192khz it is usually downsized (I think). Now, I know there are higher res files than that but I read somewhere that bluetooth always compresses file sizes but now I'm not sure if this is the case.
The other question of course is can we really hear the difference between tracks sampled at a higher rate than 24/192? So if the latest bluetooth codecs are coming close to replicating uncompressed file sizes, what are we gaining by buying a dedicated streamer? The obvious answer would be in the quality of DAC in the streamer. But if that were the case, wouldn't a very good DAC in a bluetooth receiver take that receiver to be just about on par with a streamer?
If what I'm saying is way off where bluetooth is currently at, then what about in 3 years time?

Good question. There is no doubt that bluetooth is very convenient and can sound acceptable to many.... and the Zen Blue is an excellent device....but the problem is the bluetooth codec itself. As you say it always compresses and some would be surprised at the restrictive bandwidth. When I read (often on What HiFi) about bluetooth capable of hi-res audio it makes me angry. Why? Because it misleads people entering this hobby and is blatant 'marketing spiel'.
As you know CD quality is 1411 kbps and 24/96 is 4608 kbps... 24/192 is a whopping 9216 kbps!
Now look at the maximum bandwidth of bluetooth codecs and draw your own conclusions....

 

[robdmarsh]

Ok, so it's bandwidth of even the highest quality codecs that is the problem. Thanks for clearing that up for me. So it's not there yet but will it be in 2 to 3 years?
It makes me want to try out a streamer to see if I could actually hear the difference between uncompressed hi res and LDAC, which is the codec I use to my Zen blue.
I had a Yamaha wxc-50 pre-amp/ streamer, which I got rid of as it actually doesn't support Amazon music, which is important to me since as I am a Prime user it is by far the cheapest high quality streaming service. I did have a few albums ripped to FLAC in my iTunes library but from what I remember, using Airplay, I was not as impressed with the sound that I am now getting using Amazon HD and the Zen blue. I was never convinced by the Yamaha tbh. I don't think MusicCast is a great bit of software, there was no attempt to make it Amazon compatible with a firmware update, but its biggest crime was that the Bluetooth capability was unusable. Yamaha customer service said that bluetooth was an inherently unreliable connection because of so many competing devices in the home, which is patently BS these as Ifi is so readily proving.
A Denon dnp 800ne is £299 on Hyperfi and I have seen them go for as little as 200 and change on eBay. Mmmm....

 

[Tinman1952]

Ok, so it's bandwidth of even the highest quality codecs that is the problem. Thanks for clearing that up for me. So it's not there yet but will it be in 2 to 3 years?
It makes me want to try out a streamer to see if I could actually hear the difference between uncompressed hi res and LDAC, which is the codec I use to my Zen blue.
I had a Yamaha wxc-50 pre-amp/ streamer, which I got rid of as it actually doesn't support Amazon music, which is important to me since as I am a Prime user it is by far the cheapest high quality streaming service. I did have a few albums ripped to FLAC in my iTunes library but from what I remember, using Airplay, I was not as impressed with the sound that I am now getting using Amazon HD and the Zen blue. I was never convinced by the Yamaha tbh. I don't think MusicCast is a great bit of software, there was no attempt to make it Amazon compatible with a firmware update, but its biggest crime was that the Bluetooth capability was unusable. Yamaha customer service said that bluetooth was an inherently unreliable connection because of so many competing devices in the home, which is patently BS these as Ifi is so readily proving.
A Denon dnp 800ne is £299 on Hyperfi and I have seen them go for as little as 200 and change on eBay. Mmmm....

Well Qualcomm announced a few weeks ago they would be launching a 'lossless' audio bluetooth codec/chip next year some time. Time will tell... I guess current bluetooth devices would not be compatible which will annoy many.
I too had a WXC50 and used it just as network bridge to my DAC. I was very disappointed when Yamaha did not roll out Amazon Music support to it although they added it to their AV receivers.....
I looked at Heos and Play-Fi but both had their drawbacks with Amazon Music...and I wasn't going to pay £600 for a Bluesound Node. So I am currently using an iPad and sending via USB to my DAC. It sounds great and I get 24/192 out of it. Unfortunately the Amazon app upsamples everything to 24/192 but I am willing to live with that.
That Denon 800NE sounds like a bargain! Very tempting..... 🙂

 

[robdmarsh]

Unfortunately the Amazon app upsamples everything to 24/192 but I am willing to live with that.
Huh? That's a good thing isn't it?

 

[Tinman1952]

Unfortunately the Amazon app upsamples everything to 24/192 but I am willing to live with that.
Huh? That's a good thing isn't it?

Well I would prefer it if they played the files at their proper resolution.... up to 24/192.
Many 'audiophiles' complain if music playback is not 'bit perfect'. Personally I don't mind if it sounds ok...