Great cable for Q acoustics concept 20?

[Chr78]

Hey guys.

The concept 20 is a pretty popular model, som some of you should know it. I just bought it, and i like it.

Right now i use van den hul the clearwater as speaker cable and my amp is nad d7050. The sound im looking for is open, clear, fast and detailed. Can anyone recommend a better affordable speaker cable, than i am using now?

Cheers

 

[Freddy58]

Hiya.

I feel bound to say that there are only two possiblities here. Either your source is quite poor, or the speakers aren't suited to you. In this situation, speaker cables aren't the answer. IMO, cables make no difference anyway, unless they are very poor. I suppose you could try repositioning the speakers which may/may not help.

 

[dim_span]

you say that you like the speakers ... so by saying that, I presume you are happy with the way they currently sound with your setup?

.... but you also say that the sound that you are after is open, fast and detailed?.... if that is what you have at the moment, I doubt that any other cables will give you much improvement.

as the other poster mentioned, try re-positioning your speakers in your room ... that does make a huge difference.

 

[MeanandGreen]

As the others have said, changing your cables isn't really going to achieve anything. If there is something about the sound you aren't happy with cables aren't the answer.

 

[davedotco]

Like all Q Acoustic speakers the Concept 20s do not have the 'sparkliest' of top ends, some people describe them as a bit 'rolled off' or 'shut in'. This is pretty mild on the 20s and with your amp I can't really see it as a problem unless you are one of those who likes a really 'obvious' top end.

Cables will not make any real difference though, try pointing the 20's straight at you, ie right on axis.

Otherwise look to your sources, what are they by the way?

 

[jonathanRD]

Come on everyone - don't be afarid of the cable police - suggest a cable for Chr78! *unknw*

 

[dim_span]

Come on everyone - don't be afarid of the cable police - suggest a cable for Chr78! *unknw*

Van Den Hul Clearwater .... £8 per meter on ebay

 

[davedotco]

Come on everyone - don't be afarid of the cable police - suggest a cable for Chr78! *unknw*

Something bright and shiny, Nordost maybe.

If you are using a computer, try a bit of eq at the very top end, needs to be pretty high though, you just want a bit of 'air', not to make it over bright.

 

[andyjm]

Come on everyone - don't be afarid of the cable police - suggest a cable for Chr78! *unknw*

One of the things that is a surprise to those who start studying engineering is that everything is an approximation, everything is a compromise, and everything effects everything else.

To give a trite example, gravitational attraction exists between every particle of matter in the universe. Move your desk lamp from one side of your desk to another, and there will be a small change in the gravitational attraction to every particle in the universe. Does it matter? It depends on what you are trying to do.

A competent engineer will analyse a system, and decide what matters and what doesn't. Designing a CD player, the gravitational attraction of a desk lamp across the desk is probably measurable, but not going to effect the output of the player in an audible way. If you were at CERN, studying gravity waves, it is quite possible that the placement of nearby objects would impact your experiment in a significant manner.

So on to cables. Of course cables matter. Cables have to be fit for purpose. Cat5e ethernet twisted pair cable is made that way for a reason, so is coax cable for your aerial, so is the mains lead on your fan heater. The engineer cosidered the factors that matter (ignored those that don't), and specified a cable accordingly.

All electrical components exhibit resistance, inductance and capacitance. Buy a resistor, and the damn thing has capacitance and inductance, buy a capacitor and it has resistance and inductance coming along for the ride. Cables are the same, resistance, inductance and capacitance.

Speaker cables are no different, resistance, inductance and capacitance define how they work. As an engineer, you can't specify a cable in isolation, it has to be considered in the system in which it is intended to operate. A speaker cable cable carries low frequency (in engineering terms, 20KHz barely moves the dial), relatively high current, with a very low source resistance (in the order of 0.1 ohm) and a low sink resistance (8 ohm loudspeaker). As any engineer will tell you, given the low source and sink impedance and low frequency, the effect of inductance and capacitance is completely dwarfed by cable resistance. Going back to my point above, an engineer (but perhaps not a cable salesman) will know to focus on resistance.

So, about the only thing that matters with speaker cables is its resistance, and therefore how thick it is. You would expect really thick long cables to sound different to really thin long cables. You would not expect two cables of approximately the same diameter and length to sound different, no matter how much money has been spent on advertising.... and as for silver plated cables sounding 'bright', this is complete nonsense.

So for those who are itching to reply with 'science doesn't know everything' - of course it doesn't. What science does have is a set of electrical circuit theories that have been tested for over a hundred years and have yet to be proved incorrect.

I would encourage anyone who thinks differently, to explain how two speaker cables of approximately the same diameter and construction could possibly sound different.

 

[steve_1979]

...Designing a CD player, the gravitational attraction of a desk lamp across the desk is probably measurable...

Calculable yes. But I doubt the gravitational attraction of something as small as a lamp is accurately measureable considering the gravitational attraction of everything in the vicinity having an effect too. The constantly varying gravitation effect of the sun and moon probably has more effect than a lamp despite it only being a couple of meters away.

Don't mind me though. I've just got my pernickety head on today.

 

[Covenanter]

Cables make no difference! Unless you are using bell wire changing will be a waste of time and money.

Chris

 

[jonathanRD]

We should have a cable amnesty thread where everyone admits to how many pairs of cables they have *biggrin* all mine were bought for cosmetic reasons only *sorry2*

 

[Freddy58]

We should have a cable amnesty thread where everyone admits to how many pairs of cables they have *biggrin* all mine were bought for cosmetic reasons only *sorry2*

Or maybe, they could be handed in? *biggrin*

 

[dim_span]

Many people buy expensive cables because others say it's good ... Some people are adamant that they do hear differences in cables

What I have heard on my previous system though is that copper based cables gave a 'warmer' sound, and silver based cables were too bright for my old system (s's sounded like z's on some tracks).... so in my opinion, there are subtle differences (if you are lucky enough to have excellent hearing)

I am in the process of upgrading my sytem, but have kept all my old cables (Silver high breed interconnects and the old Hitachi SSX 102K LC-OFC speaker cables)... I bought those blind, based on other people's opinions, who clamed to hear differences.

My ears are old now (I cannot hear any difference between the spotify premium vs the free version, and I cannot even hear my mobile phone ringing when I have it in my jeans pocket), so cabling won't make much difference to me, but to some, it does... no need to spend zillions though

 

[ID.]

Come on everyone - don't be afarid of the cable police - suggest a cable for Chr78! *unknw*

The sound im looking for is open, clear, fast and detailed

get some Nordost up 'em. None of the cheap stuff. The regular plain copper stuff (Flatline range) sounds just like most other decent copper cables. You want to aim for the lines where they start to use silver (Leif?).

It looks like the entry level in that range is the white lightning.

 

[drummerman]

For affordable, I would suggest one QED's cables. They are well made.

QED Reference Silver Anniversary XT or Ruby Anniversary Evolution.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I dont wish to be contraversial particularly with those here whom I have 'known' and 'respected' for some years. But I read 'well made' cables with some amusement. I too use QED but have yet to find a poorely made cable. Sorry - no offence implied.

 

[Vladimir]

I do own badly made cables. Some are no name speaker cables from a spool, some are Monster interconnects. Green corroded wires, brittle jackets, worn off gold plating. Some generic interconnects came dead on arrival. Never worked because the hair thin conductors inside are broken during manufacturing and handling.

 

[ID.]

no need to spend zillions though

I agree. The accepted rule of thumb is that your speaker cables should cost roughly the same as your speakers. After all, the speakers are only as good as the signal the cable can deliver to them. Garbage in; garbage out.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Vlad (&Drummer') - I stand to be corrected & humbly accept that 'bad' cables are available.

ID - spending as much on cable as speakers? Do u spend the same on a set of tyres on your Ferrari as the car? Garbage in - garbage out? Similies and sayings taken out of any context amkes no sense. Am I going to spend £2k on wire? Nah! Fuel for cable sceptics if ever I saw some.

 

[ID.]

Vlad (&Drummer') - I stand to be corrected & humbly accept that 'bad' cables are available.

ID - spending as much on cable as speakers? Do u spend the same on a set of tyres on your Ferrari as the car? Garbage in - garbage out? Similies and sayings taken out of any context amkes no sense. Am I going to spend £2k on wire? Nah! Fuel for cable sceptics if ever I saw some.

Look, you are just being dogmatic. Think about this logically and it is obvious it makes sense. Your tire analogy isn't really a very good one. Think of speaker cables as an essential part of the power train, necessary to deliver the power generated by the engine (the amp) to the speakers. Your perjorative attempt to just dismiss it as mere "wire" doesn't change the facts.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I would like to understand the value of the (huge) cartoon in this discussion.

I have never said that 'it is merely wire' any more than a bald or slick tyre is just 'rubber'. My disagreement was with a general rule for spending the same on speakers as cables. My speakers cost more than £2k but to spend that much on cables would (imo) be ludicrous. If you believe that cables do have a significant effect on your system then you are free to experiment and make your own decisions. However, I can not compare the materials, labour & manufacturing of speakers to that of cables. I guess we can agree to disagree and others can make up their own minds.

 

[Vladimir]

However, I can not compare the materials, labour & manufacturing of speakers to that of cables.

Cables have R&D that deals with quantum physics, metalurgy and electronics, therefore a very knowledgable staff is required to produce high performance cables.

 

[ellisdj]

Best is to try a few out and see for yourself if you notice a difference.

Moving speakers definately will change the sound - especially the toe in.

Pointing them straight at you will unlikely give you an open sound - it will probably artificially improve centre imaging at the expense of openess and space - but worth the effort and worth trying.

Dealers will want you to try the matching interconnects with the speaker cables if such exist - while this is more expensive its worth doing also.

I would suggest for openess and space what I use you will struggle to find better for that in the budget section of the cables market. Much better exists but costs a Lot more

You can get free home demo on these as well but they are a bit more expensive than £8 a metre.

 

[ID.]

I would like to understand the value of the (huge) cartoon in this discussion.

I have never said that 'it is merely wire' any more than a bald or slick tyre is just 'rubber'. My disagreement was with a general rule for spending the same on speakers as cables. My speakers cost more than £2k but to spend that much on cables would (imo) be ludicrous. If you believe that cables do have a significant effect on your system then you are free to experiment and make your own decisions. However, I can not compare the materials, labour & manufacturing of speakers to that of cables. I guess we can agree to disagree and others can make up their own minds.

It means, sorry for trolling you. I thought that my comment about it being accepted that cable should cost as much as the speakers was outrageous enough to mark my post as being complete BS, but then again, maybe not when I consider some of the things that are posted. Although I have gone through my cable swaping phase (if we still had a search function I'm sure you could find my post talking about the blacker blacks and deeper bass with my new power cable...), I'm pretty much firmly in the camp of healthy skepticism regarding claims of significant differences between cables.

I would suggest for openess and space

It practically has openness and space suggested by its very name. Spatia!