For WHF reviewers: Primare I32 review

[plastic penguin]

ESP2009:plastic penguin:ESP2009:plastic penguin:

Thanks, chaps - I've yet to buy the mag and already I've a fair idea of the contents.

...and now you have an extra £4.50 to put towards those speakers you want.

Don't tease... you'll be saying next my questions about DACs is an elaborate smokescreen.

Heaven forbid!

I suspect that with the DAC thing you... (but that takes us further off topic)

Me and hi-fis are off the menu. The Leema works great - I'm more concerned why everyone seems to be questioning the new Primarc... sorry, Primare amp on a first test?

Let's not forget that stars gained (or not in this case) doesn't representative personal taste, room acoustics, speakers etc..

Give it a chance!

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:ESP, based on my experiences in this field it seems that many like the sound given by underdriven speakers. For example, a softer sound, greater warmth, a bigger and less damped bass, often described as rhythmic. I've read a lot of counts of people monoblocking or upgrading their amp to find they don't like the sound as much. I also suspect that a lot of speaker and amp matching scenarios are about finding a combination that has the sort of colourations the person prefers.Anyway, a different topic and different thread I suspect.Firstly, you'd have to prove what you meant by "underdriven speakers". The properties you describe can also be for poorly designed speakers, or ones designed specifically for that type of sound. Equally, amplifiers can also provide the sound you describe whether 10W or 200W. Underdriven doesn't necessarily come into the equation at all, there are so many variables.

As to colorations - well, you have bought a particular sound with your speakers as I have with mine. Mine, to my ears, transcribe music and music as I hear them. Yours probably don't, at least not to my ears.

Coming from such a level-headed and thoughtful contributor to this forum, I have to be honest and say I'm really taken aback by these comments.

 

[Anonymous]

Grottyash, I agree with what you are saying. My comment was merely that a lot of speakers aren't driven properly and the sound suffers as a result. This has to be a reasonable statement based on the majority of speakers on the market and the majority of amps. You need a lot of power to drive speakers properly. I'm not going down the path of the clipping demonstrations that have been done at public events. You're right in that you must consider speakers and amp together and only then can you comment on the result.

My comment was only an observation that it sounds like Primare may have created an amp that is more capable of driving speakers properly given the nature of the observations being stated. It was a subjective comment and really just a thought. I wish I hadn't mentioned it now.

 

[ESP2009]

igglebert:Grottyash, I agree with what you are saying. My comment was merely that a lot of speakers aren't driven properly and the sound suffers as a result. This has to be a reasonable statement based on the majority of speakers on the market and the majority of amps. You need a lot of power to drive speakers properly. I'm not going down the path of the clipping demonstrations that have been done at public events. You're right in that you must consider speakers and amp together and only then can you comment on the result. My comment was only an observation that it sounds like Primare may have created an amp that is more capable of driving speakers properly given the nature of the observations being stated. It was a subjective comment and really just a thought. I wish I hadn't mentioned it now.

And there we are...back to that thread about digging holes!

 

[Anonymous]

Iggle, yes I agree with your comments.

I have just changed my I30 for a nice new I32 mainly for the extra watts!

Havent read the review yet but hope I haven't done the wrong thing.

Need a bit more time with it before posting my thoughts between the two models although in my opinion its certanly doesnt sound any worse!

 

[Clare Newsome]

If it sounds right to you, our review shouldn't matter...

 

[ESP2009]

Oakman:

Iggle, yes I agree with your comments.

I have just changed my I30 for a nice new I32 mainly for the extra watts!

Havent read the review yet but hope I haven't done the wrong thing.

Need a bit more time with it before posting my thoughts between the two models although in my opinion its certanly doesnt sound any worse!

Oh, definitely keep us posted.

Let's face it, when it all comes down to it, everything comes down to personal taste. We can take guidance and advice, but as we are frequently reminded, and all too frequently tend to forget, we have to let our own ears decide.

There is a very sharp double-edged sword that threatens us in these times: choice! There's simply so much that we cannot humanly try out every combination of hi-fi kit that might take us to listening heaven (within a given budget). As a result, we find ourselves looking for guidance that might narrow down the choice, but always having at the back of our minds that nagging suspicion we may have missed something or that just around the corner is a new model that will be 'THE ANSWER'. Thus we wait for our peers and the experts to give us reviews that will help in our quest. It can be a shock and a disappointment when a review isn't quite what was expected, but maybe we still need to let our own experience guide us; after all, maybe that 3-star component will sound just great in our own living room.

 

[BenLaw]

Ketan Bharadia:

Hi Ben,

The two amps do indeed share a common presentation. From memory I'd say I30 is more organic in the way it deals with dynamics and has a more surefooted way with rhythms. The I32 counters with a cleaner, perhaps more precise sound, but bearing in mind its price and the competition it's up against, it struggles.

Thanks for your thoughts Ketan

FWIW (if I was any good at the hifi descriptions like the WHF team

) I would probably describe the pre30 / A33.2 combination as having the best of these 2 worlds: clean and precise and dynamic and surefooted. By any chance did JD get to hear the I32 given he's a devotee of Primare?

igglebert:based on my experiences in this field it seems that many like the sound given by underdriven speakers. For example, a softer sound, greater warmth, a bigger and less damped bass, often described as rhythmic . . . I also suspect that a lot of speaker and amp matching scenarios are about finding a combination that has the sort of colourations the person prefers.

Hi igglebert. FWIW I agree a lot of people like a coloured sound, bloated bass etc. (ATC actives are an eventual goal for me.) Each to their own of course. Whether that's necessarily down to underdriven speakers I'm not sure - this may be too generous to many of the speakers (if you favour an accurate, undistorted, uncoloured sound). I'm still not sure, especially without having heard the I32, that you have enough to go on to conclude:

An amp being more rhythmic and organic in comparison sounds like it's more limited in power and control.

Especially when you have a WHF review team who review 5-figure amps that they consider both accurate / controlled and musical.

Oakman:

I have just changed my I30 for a nice new I32 mainly for the extra watts!

Havent read the review yet but hope I haven't done the wrong thing.

Need a bit more time with it before posting my thoughts between the two models although in my opinion its certanly doesnt sound any worse!

Hi Oakman. I look forward to your thoughts when you've had some time to listen. Some photos of the amp in 'real life' would be great too

ESP2009:It can be a shock and a disappointment when a review isn't quite what was expected, but maybe we still need to let our own experience guide us; after all, maybe that 3-star component will sound just great in our own living room.

And I bet Primare still sounds great. I suspect if this was a few hundred pounds less it would be at least a 4 star amp.

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed Ben, I don't dispute your comments.

 

[BenLaw]

Hi Igg

Yeah, I know from your earlier posts, I just felt a bit of responsibility having kicked the thread off

 

[Anonymous]

lol Nah, me just making unhelpful comments.

 

[Anonymous]

Haven't read the review yet but I've chosen the i32 out of an audition against Cyrus 8 Xpd Qx + psr, Moon i3.3 and Linn Majik pre/power combo. The i32 had the most detailed and clean sound of the four. It had no problem to drive my 805s.

The Cyrus was the closest match. Quit listening to the Moon and Linn after two songs because they just weren't my kind of taste. Too warm, slow and less detail.

Because of the price difference between the Primare and the Cyrus I've chose the first.

 

[Anonymous]

Well the review came as a suprise to me. I really love that Primare sound. I haven't listened to the I32/CD32 yet because I'm quite happy with the setup I have at the moment. But from experience I know that not all loudspeakers work well with Primare. The wrong spreaker can really make you question why the hell did I spend that much money! Can't that be the real issue here?

Try Audio Physic or speakers from Focal instead. In my opinion they're perfectly matched.

 

[bigboss]

the record spot:Ketan, would you say this is an underlying
theme with Class D amps in general? I recall a few others being given
3-star reviews across the price ranges (Onkyo's A5-VL amp about 18
months back being another that springs to mind).

We're not against digital amplifiers as a breed. We've reviewed some from the likes of Rotel and Audio Research that sounded really good. However, many sound like the designers were so happy with the technical performance that they forget to have a listen.

I'm getting a little confused here. I'm trying to understand a class D amplifier. Are you saying that a class D amplifier is a digital amplifier?

 

[chebby]

I'm getting a little confused here. I'm trying to understand a class D amplifier. Are you saying that a class D amplifier is a digital amplifier?

No and yes (sometimes)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class-D_amplifier#Terminology

 

[plastic penguin]

the record spot:Ketan, would you say this is an underlying
theme with Class D amps in general? I recall a few others being given
3-star reviews across the price ranges (Onkyo's A5-VL amp about 18
months back being another that springs to mind).

We're not against digital amplifiers as a breed. We've reviewed some from the likes of Rotel and Audio Research that sounded really good. However, many sound like the designers were so happy with the technical performance that they forget to have a listen.

I'm getting a little confused here. I'm trying to understand a class D amplifier. Are you saying that a class D amplifier is a digital amplifier?

Wouldn't think too hard about the 'Class'. It's all technical clap-trap. You get two main types of amp: Good and bad.

 

[Anonymous]

+ 1

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yes, agree fully, ignorance is bliss

 

[plastic penguin]

Yes, agree fully, ignorance is bliss

Jeeze that's a result. Smack wings...:shame:

 

[Anonymous]

We're not against digital amplifiers as a breed. We've reviewed some from the likes of Rotel and Audio Research that sounded really good. However, many sound like the designers were so happy with the technical performance that they forget to have a listen.

What do you mean by "digital amplifier"?

 

[Overdose]

Havent read the review yet but hope I haven't done the wrong thing.

And how would the review affect the sound that you hear from your system?

 

[jerry klinger]

Anyway, for what it's worth, I'll be trialling the I32 at home against a couple of highly-rated class AB amps next week, so hopefully will have something useful to contribute here.