Flashing pictures on Panasonic Z1

[StanleyAV]

I am struggling quite often to view darkly lit dramas without the errant picture processing on my Z1 destroying the experience.

This issue is extremely bad in the current firmware : 2.506.

BBC HD's Being Human is a case of the issue in extemis. I was watching episode 4 of this series (all seem to be affected) and the screen was making backgrounds and faces flash in a manic fashion : this affects all picture modes except GAME mode.

We aren't talking subtle contrast or black level shifts here - which Panasonic is so dismissive of - NO, not at all. Whole chunks of the picture seemed to be having an epileptic fit with highly unstable contrast/black levels producing acute flashing on screen.

I have to seriously ask why aren't the BBC and Panasonic working together such that these sorts of errors are non-existent?

I have put this directly to the BBC's HD technical engineer, awaiting a response.

It shouldn't be for me to keep chastising Panasonic for shoddy hardware/programming. I expect there to be industry agreed standards ensuring compatibility with broadcasts and DVD/Blu Ray software.

Panasonic UK made a pledge on here (re:statement to What Hifi) to investigate and escalate serious issues. When I approached customer services, this matter I raised was casually dismissed - perhaps they confused it with floating blacks? Not quite the same issue by the looks of it.

Has the UK TV team put the current Z1 firmware 2.506 through any rigorous testing with respect to such material : I think NOT!

I would like Clare to find out IF they are aware of this issue, IF NOT, would they like to honour their commitment to investigate?

(Here's hoping that a firmware update is in the pipeline......

)

Short of paying Panasonic UK to visit me (How much for a call out?

) , I am not convinced that this matter will be resolved.

 

[Clare Newsome]

StanleyAV - i've been in touch with Fabrice Estornel, Panasonic's TV product manager.

He's insistent that you are the only customer who's raised issues about these firmware updates, and that he replied personally to you, in some detail, via email last month - covering off all the previous issues you'd raised, too.

There is apparantly no reason why this latest firmware fix should be causing any of the problems you've experienced. It seems you also felt there were picture-quality issues with the last software upgrade, yet this was a usability update that had nothing to with picture performance (it was a Teletext bug fix).

Fabrice says Panasonic remains happy to help in anyway it can; you have his direct email.

 

[StanleyAV]

Thanks for that Clare. I have put to him that a tuner box replacement be requested. If the problem doesn't lie with the software then the culprit must be hardware. All software updates apply to the tuner box only.

At this stage, I have no desire to move away from Z1. Let's hope that this resolves the situation

and that he is willing to authorise such an exchange.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:
I can certainly alert Panasonic to this thread.

Incidentally, they also confirmed to me last week that any returned sets they've had in UK have been shipped back to Japan for analysis of reported issues.

Wow, I hope mine has a safe trip back,(that's going to cost a bit in transportation for all those TVs).

 

[robjcooper]

StanleyTV,

Not sure why you are blaming the BBC for what seems to be quite obviously a fault with your screen.

There are very strict specifications regarding technical requirements for delivery of completed programmes for all broadcasters, and all the HD specifications are regulated and developed worldwide by the ITU, the EBU, SMPTE and regulated on a local level by OFCOM. The BBC have one of the most stringent QC departments of all the broadcasters, and have always upheld the highest technical standards and I'm sure Andy Quested will explain this.

Also I'm not sure what part you believe that the BBC should play in assisting Panasonic to fix what is quite obviously a problem with one of their TVs?

As you've been a "Proud Panasonic Owner" up until now, and everything you've described seems to point to the same conclusion, perhaps it's just that your particular screen has recently developed a fault, either caused by a software glitch or a hardware failure.

 

[bigboss]

StanleyAV:
Thanks for that Clare. I have put to him that a tuner box replacement be requested. If the problem doesn't lie with the software then the culprit must be hardware. All software updates apply to the tuner box only.

Have you directly connected a DVD or blu-ray player to your TV to see if the problem persists? If yes, then your tuner box should be working fine.

 

[StanleyAV]

bigboss:StanleyAV:
Thanks for that Clare. I have put to him that a tuner box replacement be requested. If the problem doesn't lie with the software then the culprit must be hardware. All software updates apply to the tuner box only.

Have you directly connected a DVD or blu-ray player to your TV to see if the problem persists? If yes, then your tuner box should be working fine.

Is that actually possible? or safe to do with the Z1??

One thing I haven't mentioned, is that this problem isn't static : it gets progressively worse, which might explain why a software update (which resets everything) gives a temporary reprieve. A factory reset also can sometimes prove beneficial in curbing this problem. Power cycling the tuner box doesn't help with this problem. These actions may just be temporarily hiding the fault.

I will only be 100% sure by having the box swapped out which Fabrice is looking into for me.

@robjcooper I am not blaming the BBC, I was suggesting the industry needs to work closely with hardware developers such that compatibility is maintained. THAT is if this is a software issue. I am not wholely convinced that other software changes to the picture do not occur other than the headlined changes in firmware updates. All will be clearer when a tuner box exchange takes place.

I have been asking around to see if anyone else has experienced similar : IF I am the only one, it points to a hardware fault.

NB I have tried my Humax FoxSat HDR decoder with another Panasonic plasma : we have Viera S10 models elsewhere in the house and its is fine.

 

[ear]

someone posted a similar problem on a 37S20 here yesterday

 

[ear]

user is Austinsom

 

[laserman16]

ear:user is Austinsom

Must be this one here.

 

[Anonymous]

This does indeed sound very familiar, and if you're having as much luck as me, Panasonic are doing nothing at all about it except providing lots of excuses as to why they can't repair or inspect etc.

I would be very interested to talk to Fabrice Estornel about my problem, seeing as it sounds so similar, so Clare please do contact me as I would rather not have to take Panasonic to court, but if they fail to replace my TV or the faulty screen I will do so. Panasonic seem to think people with TV's that are working perfectly do this for fun!

Greg

 

[martynsh1984]

Stanley, its perfectly safe to connect directly into the HDMI on the rear of the Z1,

I have used mine this way for over a year now. I'm sure it mentions in the instructions that this can be done.

Suppose this would allow you to rule out the TV as being at fault.

I know one of my friends had a few issues with firmware updates on his G20, but he tried installing them again and any issues disappeared. I presume you've already tried this?

 

[bigboss]

StanleyAV: Is that actually possible? or safe to do with the Z1??

Of course it's possible. Not everyone owns a home cinema surround sound system you know.

 

[StanleyAV]

martynsh1984:
Stanley, its perfectly safe to connect directly into the HDMI on the rear of the Z1,

I have used mine this way for over a year now. I'm sure it mentions in the instructions that this can be done.

Suppose this would allow you to rule out the TV as being at fault.

I know one of my friends had a few issues with firmware updates on his G20, but he tried installing them again and any issues disappeared. I presume you've already tried this?

Hidden away in the back of the manual, p82, no wonder I missed that!! Let's hope it is the tuner box!?

Thanks for that : surely the TV won't allow a reload of firmware already on there? I have only applied OTA freesat updates, Panasonic wouldn't supply any form of SD card for me; I can't make an internet connection without buying an ethernet/wireless bridge,

I undertstand what you're driving at.

With firmware being applied to the tuner box : how on Earth does the TV panel get updated??

How much audio delay does a source usually require when not using the tuner box? I have a FoxSat HDR which will allow me to set this. My audio usually goes to a Logitech 2.1 sub system via the tuner box but I can connect from the source.

 

[StanleyAV]

austinsom:
This does indeed sound very familiar, and if you're having as much luck as me, Panasonic are doing nothing at all about it except providing lots of excuses as to why they can't repair or inspect etc.

I would be very interested to talk to Fabrice Estornel about my problem, seeing as it sounds so similar, so Clare please do contact me as I would rather not have to take Panasonic to court, but if they fail to replace my TV or the faulty screen I will do so. Panasonic seem to think people with TV's that are working perfectly do this for fun!

Greg

Right, I viewed your samples, Greg, unfortunately not quite the same issue. I get sections of the picture flashing as the contrast becomes unstable - very unstable !! - so that backgrounds will flash in section or actor's faces. I get a temporary reprieve by performing either an update or factory reset of the TV.

 

[StanleyAV]

Tried panel direct mode i.e. source -> panel directly. This mode is of only use to me as a diagnostic tool. Picture adjustment isn't possible at all - delivering quite a vivid display.

It appears the display panel is OK, any issues I see are minor, certainly nowhere near as bad as when put thru the associated tuner box : however most of the TV functionality is the tuner box, so operating this way isn't an option for me.

The fixed software inside the panel isn't necessarily perfect either : hopefully it displays it as is. GAME mode is the nearest approximation to this type of feed, but even then there are colour saturation losses going thru the tuner box.

I also found my RF remote wouldn't work with the TV, I had to use a spare Panasonic remote from an earlier TV.

 

[martynsh1984]

I have never noticed any delay in the audio stanley when connected directly to the panel. I must admit i dont use any of the features in the tuner box so i never use it. Its still in its box(and i kinda like the vivid picture)

You're might be right with the you cant install the same firmware version again.

I've never understood why the remote doesnt work the set itself. Never been an issue for me really, just another remote to put with the collection on the table. Didn't realise another Panasonic remote will work it.

Good luck with it mate. If you paid full whack for the TV you would hope it to last a long time.

 

[Anonymous]

@StanleyAV. How are you getting on with this issue? I believe I have exactly the same issue as you on my z1 and I am thus far less than pleased with Panasonic and their ability to diagnose and fix this issue. Panasonic have attempted three fixes now over the last three months, non of which have made any difference.

I understand that you are to receive a new tuner box which I have my fingers crossed for you resolves your issue but I am not convinced it will. I have the same issue regardless of source and can reproduce on demand when connected directly to the tv, totally bypassing the tuner box.

My last communication with Panasonic two days ago was very frustrating as they requested video evidence of this issue knowing full well that I can't capture the issue on camera as we tried that two months ago! Starting to feel very let down and the Panasonic store from where I purchased it refused to give me a refund 6 months into my 5 year warranty as it was "against company policy to accept returns after two weeks of ownership".

Another question, why is this thread so much shorter than the one that I have saved via the google cache? There seems to be a lot of interesting conversation that "went missing"!

 

[StanleyAV]

@RussKing UK, I have received a new tuner box, but it is not at the current firmware

I am still awaiting an SD card update from the Viera Product Manager to see if the problem is fully resolved by a change of hardware. I am not so sure.

I suggest you direct your issue to Clare Newsome to speak with Fabrice directly. He was adamant that no one else had the problem - my reason for swapping the box out. I had tried the source directly into the panel and the panel was not to blame.

NB the Panel has a fixed version of picture software which bears little relation to the tuner box versions. IF the panel was to blame it would make the same error in GAME mode and across ALL material.

We may well be looking at a software issue, like I have said many times, GAME mode is unaffected. Ask yourself what are the chances of two owners having hardware errors on their boxes?

What software are you at? I am now at 2.410, was previously at 2.506.

The GAME mode when viewing BBC's The Tudors reveals there are subtle contrast shifts within the original source, that the errant software looks to be amplifying to an erroneous degree. This is not a 'floating black' issue necessarily, more an error with contrast processing in general I would say.

Are you positive a videocam can't capture this issue? The only sure way to show the fault is for a Panasonic engineer to witness it - can you see that happening?

On my first box films such as Small Soldiers (ITV1 HD) and V is for Vendetta (BBC2) had flashing objects in foreground or in the background. BBC Tudors could also be problematical with brief flashes in faces as well as background contrast issues. Recent example albeit at 2.410 firmware is BBC HD/BBC 2's Christopher and his Kind where contrast shifts in background could be seen (not flashes as on later firmware??).

Why aren't Panasonic testing their software with such broadcasts? Do we now have a compatibility issue with dark scened content? I.E. the software can't process the broadcast correctly.

I will post further when I am able to apply a more recent firmware.

 

[Anonymous]

@StanleyAV, I feel for you. I see looking at threads across various other well known A/V forums that you have been battling with this since at least November last year! I thought my three unsuccessful board replacements in three months was bad enough!

I received the tv with 2.407 preinstalled which is the firmware revision I had when I reported the issue to Panasonic. The engineer updated me to 2.506 in December via ethernet and that made no difference.

I have just attempted to capture this issue again using a 1080p camcorder. The flickering is happening rather violently on demand but unfortunately, is not picked up by the camera.

The following YouTube video here I think represents the same issue but this time, with another Panasonic plasma model, the 42PZ85. It's very subtle compared to what I see on my set but it is still indicative of the symptom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLKJrO4I_EI&feature=related

I have (via the engineer) posted this YouTube link to Panasonic already but I am told they still need a recording from my set. I'm a little upset by this as if they require the video as an example of the symptom, they already have this in the video above. This further request makes me feel like I am having to provide proof that I am not fabricating the issue.

I would say the issue is most noticable in scenes of high contrast. True Blood, Boardwalk Empire and the Twilight Saga are good examples to reproduce the issue on demand due to the pale flesh tones against more vivid surroundings.

I originally used Twilight New Moon recorded via SkyHD as demo material for the engineer but can easilly reproduce in the same scenes via the retail DVD played back on a number of devices including PS3 and PC Media Centers. I even gave the DVD to the engineer who said they could not reproduce the issue with other models back at the shop. If you would like to check that out, please look at chapter 17, 1:48:40 being a good example (of many!). All of this of course is reproducable for me either via the tuner box or directly fed into the panel via hdmi.

@ClaireNewsome, please do discuss this with Fabrice as StanleyAV is not the only person who has reported this issue. I too have reported this and that dates back to December 2010.

 

[StanleyAV]

@RussKing Based on my first box - I can say performing an occasional power cycle of the box or a full shipping reset can lessen the symptoms : not so great if its kicking off during a live broadcast mind!

However, I believe my sample of box was making this issue worse than it ought to be; it has been noted that less phosphor lag from panning is occuring on this new sample e.g. the abrupt scene switches on BBC's Mrs Brown's Boys.

I do recall this flicker with the PZ series. And yes there is a facial flicker present on the Z1. However most of my gripe has been with background or foreground objects flashing with erroneous contrast changes. It remains to be seen if applying new firmware to this newer box helps or not: very little point judging an earlier firmware.

As to your witnessing it on the panel itself, you are still looking at software which is fixed for the panel, against tuner software which is not. The tuner software overrides whatever the panel does - the closest passthru mode is GAME mode and in this mode the problems I encounter vanish!!

Have you tried GAME mode to see if your problems vanish? If, so it can be seen that revised software is the answer to this problem.

Your best bet would be for Fabrice to get a Panasonic engineer onsite and stop this faffing around. At the very least your engineer (assuming he's from a local Panasonic dealer/service centre) should be having firm words with Panasonic technical.

 

[Anonymous]

@RussKing Based on my first box - I can say performing an occasional power cycle of the box or a full shipping reset can lessen the symptoms

In my experience I completely agree with. It is only a temporary reprieve however and the issue reoccurs within a couple of hours.

I do recall this flicker with the PZ series. And yes there is a facial flicker present on the Z1. However most of my gripe has been with background or foreground objects flashing with erroneous contrast changes. It remains to be seen if applying new firmware to this newer box helps or not: very little point judging an earlier firmware.

I do see both issues (facial and background) but the YouTube video was simply the best example of this I could find. I still can't pick this up on a camcorder.

As to your witnessing it on the panel itself, you are still looking at software which is fixed for the panel, against tuner software which is not. The tuner software overrides whatever the panel does - the closest passthru mode is GAME mode and in this mode the problems I encounter vanish!!

Have you tried GAME mode to see if your problems vanish? If, so it can be seen that revised software is the answer to this problem.

You may be on to something here. I have just tried game mode calibrated more closely to THX and the issue is better but still there.

Your best bet would be for Fabrice to get a Panasonic engineer onsite and stop this faffing around. At the very least your engineer (assuming he's from a local Panasonic dealer/service centre) should be having firm words with Panasonic technical.

The engineer is from my local Panasonic service centre and has been in contact with Panasonic Technical throughout this process. Between them they have replaced the A-PCB, B-PCB and the DA board in the panel while also updating the firmware in the tuner box. Unfortunately, none of these have had any effect on the issue.

I strongly believe that four attempts in three months is a sufficient opportunity to put right the fault and am therefore seeking a refund through the Panasonic Store from which I purchased it. The problem here of course is the Panasonic Store is telling me that Panasonic must authorise the refund and so I have Panasonic customer services looking into this matter for me. I am hoping I will receive a call from them tomorrow advising that a refund has been authorised but given the way this has been bouncing around over the past three months, I am not optimistic. I suspect I will be forced to take this to the small claims court simply to obtain something that I am legally entitled to. Way to go Panasonic!

 

[StanleyAV]

I feel for you that you have had board replacements that don't resolve it. OUCH!!

You are perfectly right after several repair attempts, the Sale of Goods Act is quite specific as to your rights to a refund. Moreover your dealer/engineer has witnessed these faults so can't deny that they aren't there. After 6 months you may require an independant report from another dealer or engineer to back up your claim in court.

It's for you to decide whether you want to go to court or get them to investigate and resolve the matter to your satisfaction. That would need to involved the product manager in order to get anywhere with this.

Your dilemma with this, is what would you replace the Z1 with? All the 2010 models have issues with 50hz material and even have floating black issues which make the Z1 issues look mild!

I have been there with two terrible V20 models!

I think the new G30 models will be available soon, you could see if Panasonic would exchange your Z1 for a 50" model; however that might not suit if you have the 54" Z1.

My reasons for sticking with Z1 : the brightness level is more suited to me, it does behave with 50hz, its style and design are more to my liking.

None of the 2010 models would suit me, nor would another make : plasma does give the best performance and you simply can't achieve good black and contrast levels elsewhere. The 2011 models are still an unknown quantity - connectivity wise losing the legacy connections would be a right pain for me.

I suggest you email Clare at WhatHifi (mark it for her attention) after considering your options Russ. Its unfortunate that both you and I are between a rock and a hard place on this one!

I have received an SD card today, so will know soon whether its is better or worse than at present. I have seen improvement one box compared to the other, so maybe an update is all that is needed

for me!?

Perhaps you need to consider a box swap out? Getting a refund just makes a replacement choice very hard!

 

[StanleyAV]

@RussKing, the best Panasonic were able to supply me with was version 2.503 of the Z1 software. As you suspected this contrast rise and fall is still present; picture sharpness is improved mind :-D

This flash type effect is seen in faces or backgrounds - my samples on my Humax box are mild : it was more of an issue in a recent BBC drama Christopher and his Kind. It certainly does not affect all program material : I expect your samples are more acute than mine.

I have reported the issue again to Fabrice and mentioned your difficulties. It still would be worth emailing Clare here, so she can put you two in touch.

I firmly believe this is a software bug and needs addressing. Some issues I had on my first box are much better : I suffered really bad 'floating black' type problems - rarely seen on this 2nd box sample.

It would be a shame to throw the baby out with the bath water for want of a software update : the alternatives you face instead of the Z1 aren't too good.

It will be a really long wait for the top models in the 2011 range - this disaster in Japan will set back production for sometime notwithstanding the usual long rollout process from Panasonic.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi StanleyAV and thank you for your feedback. I'm sorry to hear that the new(ish) firmware did not resolve the issue for you. I had my fingers crossed but wasn't confident enough to hold my breath!

I have been considering the "worst case" scenario of which tv if not the Z1 for a few weeks now as I was not confident this was ever going to be resolved. I agree entirely that a suitable replacement is incredibly difficult to establish. I purchased the Z1 (46") for not only it's supposed flagship picture quality but also the design aesthetics. I required a slim profile which immediately rules out the current Panasonic alternatives. Also as you mention, the 2010 models have "alleged" design issues which is a whole world of pain I am simply unwilling to get into. I think the only Panasonic alternative I would currently consider is the 2011 VT30 but even then, I would have to see one in the flesh/plastic before I could consider.

Excuse my naivety but who is Fabrice? I would very much like for Fabrice to acknowledge my issue in the hope that some sort or resolution can finally be found. How would I go about contacting Clare in order to progress this? I can't locate her email address?

As regards this being a software issue, I do tend to agree but there is just one thing that prevents me from accepting this entirely. If this is indeed a software issue; one which I can reproduce in an early firmware thru to the latest, this issue must exist in the vast majority of sets. I would imagine the target market for the Z1 are those that take great pride in image quality. I'm sure within this level of consumer, a much larger number would notice this issue other than you and I?

BTW, any advice on how to clean the screen? It came back from the service centre with finger and palm prints all over it. I thought these sets had an anti glare coating which you simply shouldn't touch. Not sure I'll get this back to the pristine state in which I supplied it?