Experience of switching from separates to active eg ADM9T

[audiokid]

Hello guys, hope all has calmed down now.

I managed to get a demo of the AVI ADM 9t this afternoon. Firstly I listened to some PMC 21 and some Spendor A3 with an Audiolab, which I was also interested in as a second system, and also to use as a reference point for the AVI.

The PMC sounded pretty good - clean, snappy, agile but then again, nothing really attracted me to them. The Spendor were smooth but sounded really closed in with their rolled off treble. They were OK.

I then heard the AVI. I started with the classic test track, Teardrop by massive attack, and the detail was good, bass was decent but not boomy. They sounded quite good. The I added some acoustic music - Nick Drake, Fink and Feist and they really opened up. The imaging was so good, I had to check there wasn't a centre speaker on at one point, I was really impressed.

I then tried some heavier electronic music and the detail was amazing, but the bass i was used to was hardly there at all. Finally, some and this was great overall, but the pianos on Codex had a little too much 'bloom' so perhaps they didn't have the control I was looking for.

Compared to Naim / Harbeths, they put up a great fight, and do have some advantages in terms of snap and detail. The Naim / tiny Harbeths win hands down on the bass, the realism of vocals and instruments, and have an overall smoother and enjoyable sound. However, the AVI have some outstanding qualities and I am very positive about them as a second system to compliment the other sound I get from the passive system.

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200, it demonstrates things have certainly moved on and whether you like the sound or not, they are certainly serious piece of kit for the money.

I think I'm going to get some on order.

Happy to answer any demo queries, I realise my report is a little brief.

 

[Ajani]

Hello guys, hope all has calmed down now.

I managed to get a demo of the AVI ADM 9t this afternoon. Firstly I listened to some PMC 21 and some Spendor A3 with an Audiolab, which I was also interested in as a second system, and also to use as a reference point for the AVI.

The PMC sounded pretty good - clean, snappy, agile but then again, nothing really attracted me to them. The Spendor were smooth but sounded really closed in with their rolled off treble. They were OK.

I then heard the AVI. I started with the classic test track, Teardrop by massive attack, and the detail was good, bass was decent but not boomy. They sounded quite good. The I added some acoustic music - Nick Drake, Fink and Feist and they really opened up. The imaging was so good, I had to check there wasn't a centre speaker on at one point, I was really impressed.

I then tried some heavier electronic music and the detail was amazing, but the bass i was used to was hardly there at all. Finally, some and this was great overall, but the pianos on Codex had a little too much 'bloom' so perhaps they didn't have the control I was looking for.

Compared to Naim / Harbeths, they put up a great fight, and do have some advantages in terms of snap and detail. The Naim / tiny Harbeths win hands down on the bass, the realism of vocals and instruments, and have an overall smoother and enjoyable sound. However, the AVI have some outstanding qualities and I am very positive about them as a second system to compliment the other sound I get from the passive system.

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200, it demonstrates things have certainly moved on and whether you like the sound or not, they are certainly serious piece of kit for the money.

I think I'm going to get some on order.

Happy to answer any demo queries, I realise my report is a little brief.

Excellent post. Thanks for sharing your findings. I'll be interested to know whether the bass of the avi grow on you like others say it did.

 

[chebby]

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200...

In your first post you said you had Harbeth P3ESRs and a Naim SuperNait. (Speakers, amp and integrated DAC.) They are about £1450 and £2825 which totals £4275...

Hi all,

My main system is a Naim Supernait with Harbeth P3esr, Mac source. It sounds very good.

Not sure where "8k" comes from unless I missed something. (Sources don't count as the ADM9Ts don't have sources built in and the SuperNait - including its integral DAC - doesn't have sources built in either.)

Forgive me if I missed another 'passive system' (somewhere along the way) that does cost £8k

 

[steve_1979]

Hello guys, hope all has calmed down now.

I managed to get a demo of the AVI ADM 9t this afternoon. Firstly I listened to some PMC 21 and some Spendor A3 with an Audiolab, which I was also interested in as a second system, and also to use as a reference point for the AVI.

The PMC sounded pretty good - clean, snappy, agile but then again, nothing really attracted me to them. The Spendor were smooth but sounded really closed in with their rolled off treble. They were OK.

I then heard the AVI. I started with the classic test track, Teardrop by massive attack, and the detail was good, bass was decent but not boomy. They sounded quite good. The I added some acoustic music - Nick Drake, Fink and Feist and they really opened up. The imaging was so good, I had to check there wasn't a centre speaker on at one point, I was really impressed.

I then tried some heavier electronic music and the detail was amazing, but the bass i was used to was hardly there at all. Finally, some and this was great overall, but the pianos on Codex had a little too much 'bloom' so perhaps they didn't have the control I was looking for.

Compared to Naim / Harbeths, they put up a great fight, and do have some advantages in terms of snap and detail. The Naim / tiny Harbeths win hands down on the bass, the realism of vocals and instruments, and have an overall smoother and enjoyable sound. However, the AVI have some outstanding qualities and I am very positive about them as a second system to compliment the other sound I get from the passive system.

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200, it demonstrates things have certainly moved on and whether you like the sound or not, they are certainly serious piece of kit for the money.

I think I'm going to get some on order.

Happy to answer any demo queries, I realise my report is a little brief.

Great write up.

Did you get a chance to hear the ADM's with the sub?

 

[the record spot]

Hey audiokid, glad you like your new speakers - they're very fine indeed. Hope you have many happy hours with them and of course they're backed with AVI's rather good after sales service too. Good choice.

 

[audiokid]

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200...

In your first post you said you had Harbeth P3ESRs and a Naim SuperNait. (Speakers, amp and integrated DAC.) They are about £1450 and £2825 which totals £4275...

Hi all,

My main system is a Naim Supernait with Harbeth P3esr, Mac source. It sounds very good.

Not sure where "8k" comes from unless I missed something. (Sources don't count as the ADM9Ts don't have sources built in and the SuperNait - including its integral DAC - doesn't have sources built in either.)

Forgive me if I missed another 'passive system' (somewhere along the way) that does cost £8k

My rough calculation is -

supernait 2750

Naim DAC 2100 (does this count as source, perhaps not as it's a mac mini)

2 Powerlines 900

Hi line 600

Tellurium cable 400

Speakers harbeth p3 special edition 1550

Total 8350

...and then there's a hicap that i recently disconnected - 1050

Admittedly, I could drop to the bare supernait plus Harbeth, plus 1 powerline plus speaker cable and this would be more like 5k, but it still isn't cheap in my view.

 

[audiokid]

Hello guys, hope all has calmed down now.

I managed to get a demo of the AVI ADM 9t this afternoon. Firstly I listened to some PMC 21 and some Spendor A3 with an Audiolab, which I was also interested in as a second system, and also to use as a reference point for the AVI.

The PMC sounded pretty good - clean, snappy, agile but then again, nothing really attracted me to them. The Spendor were smooth but sounded really closed in with their rolled off treble. They were OK.

I then heard the AVI. I started with the classic test track, Teardrop by massive attack, and the detail was good, bass was decent but not boomy. They sounded quite good. The I added some acoustic music - Nick Drake, Fink and Feist and they really opened up. The imaging was so good, I had to check there wasn't a centre speaker on at one point, I was really impressed.

I then tried some heavier electronic music and the detail was amazing, but the bass i was used to was hardly there at all. Finally, some and this was great overall, but the pianos on Codex had a little too much 'bloom' so perhaps they didn't have the control I was looking for.

Compared to Naim / Harbeths, they put up a great fight, and do have some advantages in terms of snap and detail. The Naim / tiny Harbeths win hands down on the bass, the realism of vocals and instruments, and have an overall smoother and enjoyable sound. However, the AVI have some outstanding qualities and I am very positive about them as a second system to compliment the other sound I get from the passive system.

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200, it demonstrates things have certainly moved on and whether you like the sound or not, they are certainly serious piece of kit for the money.

I think I'm going to get some on order.

Happy to answer any demo queries, I realise my report is a little brief.

Great write up.

Did you get a chance to hear the ADM's with the sub?

Thanks.

No, they had it in stock but I didn't have enough time, I spent quite a while on the bare standmounts. My issue with the sub is that it's very large and I would need a different layout for it to fit in, so I'm hoping I won't need one!

 

[chebby]

Admittedly, I could drop to the bare supernait plus Harbeth...

Which is all you mentioned in your first post so I naturally assumed that was your system. Thanks for clarifying what the rest of it was.

I must say you did rather buy into all the add-ons and upgrades (Powerlines, external PSUS, £2K DACs, Telleriums etc.)

That is why I bought entry level Naim stuff for the two years I enjoyed their gear. Non upgradeable (at least in terms of PSUs) because I had a non-upgradeable budget!

I have never believed in the benefits of fancy mains cables and I only had the supplied DIN cables and some NAC-A5.

I would have loved to have tried some P3ESRs though. (I still would.)

 

[audiokid]

Admittedly, I could drop to the bare supernait plus Harbeth...

Which is all you mentioned in your first post so I naturally assumed that was your system. Thanks for clarifying what the rest of it was.

I must say you did rather buy into all the add-ons and upgrades (Powerlines, external PSUS, £2K DACs, Telleriums etc.)

That is why I bought entry level Naim stuff for the two years I enjoyed their gear. Non upgradeable (at least in terms of PSUs) because I had a non-upgradeable budget!

I have never believed in the benefits of fancy mains cables and I only had the supplied DIN cables and some NAC-A5.

I would have loved to have tried some P3ESRs though. (I still would.)

The benefits of these add ons are diminishing but do add up to a fantastic sound. Mine were particularly useful in balancing and tweaking the sound of the SN with the harbeth. All upgrades were well received, but I admit they aren't good value.

I could happily live with the harbeths and a bare supernait, the harbeths really are nice.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Hello guys, hope all has calmed down now.

I managed to get a demo of the AVI ADM 9t this afternoon. Firstly I listened to some PMC 21 and some Spendor A3 with an Audiolab, which I was also interested in as a second system, and also to use as a reference point for the AVI.

The PMC sounded pretty good - clean, snappy, agile but then again, nothing really attracted me to them. The Spendor were smooth but sounded really closed in with their rolled off treble. They were OK.

I then heard the AVI. I started with the classic test track, Teardrop by massive attack, and the detail was good, bass was decent but not boomy. They sounded quite good. The I added some acoustic music - Nick Drake, Fink and Feist and they really opened up. The imaging was so good, I had to check there wasn't a centre speaker on at one point, I was really impressed.

I then tried some heavier electronic music and the detail was amazing, but the bass i was used to was hardly there at all. Finally, some and this was great overall, but the pianos on Codex had a little too much 'bloom' so perhaps they didn't have the control I was looking for.

Compared to Naim / Harbeths, they put up a great fight, and do have some advantages in terms of snap and detail. The Naim / tiny Harbeths win hands down on the bass, the realism of vocals and instruments, and have an overall smoother and enjoyable sound. However, the AVI have some outstanding qualities and I am very positive about them as a second system to compliment the other sound I get from the passive system.

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200, it demonstrates things have certainly moved on and whether you like the sound or not, they are certainly serious piece of kit for the money.

I think I'm going to get some on order.

Happy to answer any demo queries, I realise my report is a little brief.

:O

how come AVIs didn't slay you naim + harbeth combo? I can't believe it!

 

[WinterRacer]

.

 

[audiokid]

Hello guys, hope all has calmed down now.

I managed to get a demo of the AVI ADM 9t this afternoon. Firstly I listened to some PMC 21 and some Spendor A3 with an Audiolab, which I was also interested in as a second system, and also to use as a reference point for the AVI.

The PMC sounded pretty good - clean, snappy, agile but then again, nothing really attracted me to them. The Spendor were smooth but sounded really closed in with their rolled off treble. They were OK.

I then heard the AVI. I started with the classic test track, Teardrop by massive attack, and the detail was good, bass was decent but not boomy. They sounded quite good. The I added some acoustic music - Nick Drake, Fink and Feist and they really opened up. The imaging was so good, I had to check there wasn't a centre speaker on at one point, I was really impressed.

I then tried some heavier electronic music and the detail was amazing, but the bass i was used to was hardly there at all. Finally, some and this was great overall, but the pianos on Codex had a little too much 'bloom' so perhaps they didn't have the control I was looking for.

Compared to Naim / Harbeths, they put up a great fight, and do have some advantages in terms of snap and detail. The Naim / tiny Harbeths win hands down on the bass, the realism of vocals and instruments, and have an overall smoother and enjoyable sound. However, the AVI have some outstanding qualities and I am very positive about them as a second system to compliment the other sound I get from the passive system.

To say my passive system costs roughly 8k and the AVI are £1200, it demonstrates things have certainly moved on and whether you like the sound or not, they are certainly serious piece of kit for the money.

I think I'm going to get some on order.

Happy to answer any demo queries, I realise my report is a little brief.

:O

how come AVIs didn't slay you naim + harbeth combo? I can't believe it!

Whilst the AVI have some great qualities, they could never match the Naim / Harbeth combo IMO. But, you wouldn't expect them to, surely, given the price? The Naim and Harbeth oozes musical enjoyment, warmth and personality. Don't get me wrong, I love the AVI, and I can be more than happy accommodating two systems, one built for comfort, the other built for speed!

 

[the record spot]

Good for you audiokid; there'll be a few folk out there choking on their pork scratchings at the very notion an AVI owner could possibly like Naim and Harbeth gear! Really highlights what for me is the greater truth; there's no rule out there that says it's an "either / or" case. Of course people can enjoy all manner of systems.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

:O

how come AVIs didn't slay you naim + harbeth combo? I can't believe it!

Whilst the AVI have some great qualities, they could never match the Naim / Harbeth combo IMO. But, you wouldn't expect them to, surely, given the price? The Naim and Harbeth oozes musical enjoyment, warmth and personality. Don't get me wrong, I love the AVI, and I can be more than happy accommodating two systems, one built for comfort, the other built for speed!

it was supposed to be sarcastic but maybe didn't come out like that in the end?

anyway, having read a few AVIs threads one could come to a conclusion that the speakers easily match the best in terms of performance (hence being the best) but offer great VFM too. so there's no-nonsense AVIs and the rest is just overpriced hi-fi jewelery.

I never heard AVIs although I hope one day I will so I'll be able to compare their sound to sound of my system. but I do believe they are really good speakers and probably peerless in their price range (well, maybe some decent pro monitors coupled to some equally capable DAC/pre could only compete) but I'm far to believe that there's nothing better out there. in the end they're just cone & dome mini monitors...

 

[Ajani]

in the end they're just cone & dome mini monitors...

Do you see the irony in that statement? Your unfaltering believe in the superioty of planar speakers is the same thing as the unfaltering believe in active speakers is the same thing as the unfaltering believe in SET amp/high efficiency speakers is the same thing as the unfaltering believe in DIY.

There's no need to get religous about HiFi. There is no one path to enlightenment. Just audition whatever you can and purchase what you like most within your budget.

 

[Ajani]

Whilst the AVI have some great qualities, they could never match the Naim / Harbeth combo IMO. But, you wouldn't expect them to, surely, given the price? The Naim and Harbeth oozes musical enjoyment, warmth and personality. Don't get me wrong, I love the AVI, and I can be more than happy accommodating two systems, one built for comfort, the other built for speed!

Nice! It's not an either or situation in HiFi. You can appreciate what a good active system has to offer without becoming a passive hater. I haven't had the good fortune of trying either the Naim/Harbeth combo or AVI, but I would expect them to have very different flavours like you described.

If you ever get a chance to audition the ADM40 please remember to post your findings. I'd certainly appreciate hearing your views on them and if they come closer to or even dethrone your Naim/Harbeth system.

 

[domenn]

Hi how would you compare avi9T to Rega house sound ? Maybe its crazy but I'am starting to think about to sell my Rega set up

and swap it for adm's avi9T . it just looks so simple less cabling ..... but sound is what matters , i did not have chance to demo adm's and I dont think I will .

 

[matthewpiano]

domenn

I think the only good advice anyone can give is that you should go out of your way to audition the AVIs before you start selling your Rega system. You have an excellent set-up there and it would be a disaster to sell it, buy the AVIs and then feel that you'd made a mistake.

The ADM9.1s are undoubtedly a great product given the number of people who are so happy with them, but for me changing to them is no different to any other upgrade or change in system - you need to make sure they are right for you by listening with your own ears.

 

[richardw42]

Domenn.

Whereabouts are you ?

Ive seen offers from AVI owners to demo the speakers. Perhaps there is an owner near you who might oblige.

 

[audiokid]

Being controversial here... I know many will disagree, but I wonder if many owners of passive kit, like Naim, dislike AVI out of principle. Sure they have different sounds altogether, but I can't deny what AVI have achieved. I'm fairly new to Naim - around 2 years, but i imagine if you have lived with Naim for 20 years, AVI would be a shock to the ear, it would sound clinical and bright, and unfamiliar.

I have had the pleasure of listening to many brands of the last few years, and I have really enjoyed building a system and discovering a much broader taste in music. For example, I didn't listen to folk until I got the harbeths! Hearing AVI gave me a level of detail I got when I heard proac standmounts, but some additional depth and separation which I got with higher end kit like Bowers 805d. But, they did have their downsides thorough. As mentioned, bass was much lighter and there was less control over some challenging mid range elements, like Thom York's vocals. Get it right and he can sound incredible, get it wrong and it sounds hard on the ear. I'm perhaps being hard on the AVI here, as I'm used to listening to harbeth which are renowned for reproducing some of the best vocals.

You could forgive AVI for not scoring full marks against the brands I have mention, because of their great value. Would be interested in future for AVI to create an ADM premium version, without going to the largish floor stander. A bit like how Kudos did the C1 and the C10, now super 10. Same size, upgraded parts, double the price, but worth every penny IMO.

in terms of selling you Rega hifi, could you run both in parallel for a few months? If the AVI didn't work out you could sell them as they hold their value I'm sure. It might cost you £300-400 in resale, or you could save them for a second room if it didn't beat your setup. I'm not so familiar with rega speakers, have only tried the great Dac they make.

[NOTE FROM MODS - THREAD PRUNED; APOLOGIES FOR ANY GOOD POSTS LOST WITH THE INSULTING ONES. GREAT TO SEE THIS BACK ON TOPIC. LONG MAY IT CONTINUE...]

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

in the end they're just cone & dome mini monitors...

Do you see the irony in that statement?

I plead guilty. but ever since I heard ESL headphones and Heil AVT tweeter I thought there's more to music reproduction than just 2-way cone & dome mini monitors. I really urge you to try other options, only to rule them out. in the end speakers will always present a set of compromises and it's important to know which compromises suit you. I'm fascinated with long dipole ribbons ATM but where will I end up in the future? I still don't know. it probably not be SET + horns combo due to the size of the thing. but maybe a nice full range driver will surface up finally?

however, I must admit that if I were making my last speaker upgrade right now it would be for a long ribbon (due to image size and resolution)/ planar bass (due to speed and pitch stability). I'm not saying this option is perfect. you still get so called "saw edge" distortion and "drumhead" distortion. but as I constantly learn more maybe other technology would take precedence. ESL is great but it has a few limitations I'm not fully comfortable with. so, we'll see what the future will bring. I may even go back to box speakers? (highly unlikely though)

 

[the record spot]

Being controversial here... I know many will disagree, but I wonder if many owners of passive kit, like Naim, dislike AVI out of principle. Sure they have different sounds altogether, but I can't deny what AVI have achieved. I'm fairly new to Naim - around 2 years, but i imagine if you have lived with Naim for 20 years, AVI would be a shock to the ear, it would sound clinical and bright, and unfamiliar.

You could forgive AVI for not scoring full marks against the brands I have mention, because of their great value. Would be interested in future for AVI to create an ADM premium version, without going to the largish floor stander. A bit like how Kudos did the C1 and the C10, now super 10. Same size, upgraded parts, double the price, but worth every penny IMO.

Not sure many owners dislike AVI out of principle - all you need is an open mind to listen objectively I suppose. Some will stick to their big systems - especially in the US where a trip over to the Steve Hoffman forum will be something of an eye-opener - while others would look to downsize without sacrificing quality.

In terms of their doing a premium version, [.......] you could say that the ADM40 is that, albeit in the shape of a floorstander. That might not work for everyone asyou've alluded but it gives you what you've mentioned in terms of bass.

Edited by Mods - Best not to start a discussion across two forums.

 

[plastic penguin]

Please forgive my ignorance. This may have been mentioned before but...

After buying July edition of the mag and reading the speaker "super-duper speaker test", WHFI concluded the AVIs are "great for PC-based music". With that in mind, has anyone thrown the AVIs a fur ball with traditional sources (CDP, TT)? If so what was the conclusion, in comparison tp its usual ally of streamed music.

 

[WinterRacer]

Please forgive my ignorance. This may have been mentioned before but...

After buying July edition of the mag and reading the speaker "super-duper speaker test", WHFI concluded the AVIs are "great for PC-based music". With that in mind, has anyone thrown the AVIs a fur ball with traditional sources (CDP, TT)? If so what was the conclusion, in comparison tp its usual ally of streamed music.

My guess is the reference to computer based music is due to the fact they have a built in pre-amp and DAC making a neat system, rather than any limitations of the ADMs.

My experience is that good speakers, which the ADMs are, work well with any source.

 

[plastic penguin]

Understandable - however, as we know most, if not all, systems or separates have their achilles heel. Therefore would be interesting to hear whether anyone has tried it with a well known CDP, TT or FM tuner... and how that compares.