Electrocompaniet ECG 1 and other stuff (turntable help needed)

[rainsoothe]

Hey all. First of all, I know this belongs in the TT subforum, but that seems to be geting very few visits. So.

Has anyone heard it? I want to upgrade my TT and for reasons that would take too long to elaborate and are irrelevant, my options are the Electrocompaniet ECG1 (though this would really, really stretch my budget) or the new Rega Planar 6. The cartridge choice will depend on the matching, of course, and the phono stage will be a budget-ish one for the time being, until I can start considering something like a Croft or a Rega Aria.

My main problem with the PLX1000 is that it has pitch stability problems, which diminshed after a trip to the service (they changed everything in the motor assembly), but not enough for my ears. I know that, in theory, belt drives should be even worse, but with all the great reviews belt drives are getting, it can't really be that bad, can it? On the point of pitch stability, I'm not really considering the new Technics SL1200GR because, with all the mods, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from wanting to upgrade - arm, power supplies etc. Also, I'm not looking for CD-type playback from my TT, if you know what I mean.

Oh, and here's the rubb: I can't audition either.

Reading around, led me to believe that the Electrocompaniet might be better suited for jazz and classical, even if it is the better overall performer. I know a lot depends on cartridge and phono as well, but I don't know in what measure - I mean I do listen to the occasional Jazz and Classical record, but it's mostly Prog Rock, and I don't want the sound to be all smoothed out, even if the soundstage and euphonics are better etc.

So I do want energy from it, but not at the cost of having a "smiley EQ". Present midrange, punchy bass and extended but not grating highs - and just a bit on the forward side, and with good momentum, timing, flow, whatever. Will I be able to achieve this with the Electrocompaniet without replacing the Jelco tonearm? And, without necessarily comparing to the Electrocompaniet, how close would Rega P6 + Nagaoka MP500 be to achieving my goal - and should I go for a more neutral/forward sounding phono pre, or a warmer one?

Thanks all.

 

[Vladimir]

I hope someone responds with direct experience of both TTs in question. I'll just share what would be my observation if I had to do a blind buy.

1) Platter, chassis, all sandwich acrylic and aluminium plates on the EC. Doesn't get better than that for riggidity and vibration immunity. This concept is used even for hi-end speaker plinths. Rega RP6 is no where near this well built. It's a single particle board chasis, acrylic platter and a stamped metal reinforcement bridge. Cheap as chips.

2) The motor is AC, not DC for both turntables, which is great. However the motor in the EC is of higher quality, robustness, power and its displacement away from the tonearm and center spindle. The Rega motor is non-isolated motor straight to the record.

3) Tone arm is Jelco SA-750EB. It is a clear improvement over a Rega RB330.

4) Looks wise I'm not a fan of transparent acrylic futuristic looking turntables, although the EC is toned down to a minimum in this respect, despite its bill of materials. I prefer the simplicity of Rega, I find them having a certain understated beauty.

I don't think Rega makes a TT that beats the EC construction wise. But maybe that's a downside, considering most audiophiles prefer coloration, distortion and inaccuracy in some controlled form to flavor their next purchase. Why else use vinyl and valve amps? Maybe Rega will sound better to many ears, yours and mine included.

 

[drummerman]

Rega or the new Technics 1210.

 

[rainsoothe]

I hope someone responds with direct experience of both TTs in question. I'll just share what would be my observation if I had to do a blind buy.

1) Platter, chassis, all sandwich acrylic and aluminium plates on the EC. Doesn't get better than that for riggidity and vibration immunity. This concept is used even for hi-end speaker plinths. Rega RP6 is no where near this well built. It's a single particle board chasis, acrylic platter and a stamped metal reinforcement bridge. Cheap as chips.

2) The motor is AC, not DC for both turntables, which is great. However the motor in the EC is of higher quality, robustness, power and its displacement away from the tonearm and center spindle. The Rega motor is non-isolated motor straight to the record.

3) Tone arm is Jelco SA-750EB. It is a clear improvement over a Rega RB330.

4) Looks wise I'm not a fan of transparent acrylic futuristic looking turntables, although the EC is toned down to a minimum in this respect, despite its bill of materials. I prefer the simplicity of Rega, I find them having a certain understated beauty.

I don't think Rega makes a TT that beats the EC construction wise. But maybe that's a downside, considering most audiophiles prefer coloration, distortion and inaccuracy in some controlled form to flavor their next purchase. Why else use vinyl and valve amps? Maybe Rega will sound better to many ears, yours and mine included.

Bolded the bit that concerns me as well - I don't dislike colouration, as long as it's my type. Thanks for taking the time to look into it, by the way. Also, the Rega I'm considering is the new P6, not RP6, the arm in that comparison is the previous version (the 303), but I understand how improvements would be minor and the Jelco still edging it out. I confess at the moment I'm leaning towards the Rega, since that will let me budget for a higher cartridge, whilst still paying less (they are, after all, in two completely different price brackets).

Thanks for your reply as well, Drummerman. As I said, I'm thinking of staying clear of the Technics, since it would open a new upgraditis path.

 

[Vladimir]

In an interview for Home Theater Geeks Bob Carver explains why tube amps appeal to him. He says the magic sauce is in the feedback coming to the amp from the room acoustics (microphonony). When it's the right kind, amount and everything clicks together, it makes everything sound glorious.

A turntable is also a microphone. Tap on it or speak close to it, you will see electronic signal on the osciloscope. So when you play music in your room, your hifi is listening too. It creates reverb and harmonics that make sound more vivid, reverberant, more lively, 3Dimensional etc.

Digital and solid state kit sounds dead to some people who prefer this added effect. To them its not about precision, but about immersion.

 

[MajorFubar]

ECG-1 is from a different planet to the one which makes the Rega Planar 6. Rega turntables seem to be one of the darling products beloved by both WHF reviewers and forum-contributors alike, so who am I to tell them they're wrong. But they were meant to be cheap as chips budget items that shunned every feature you didn't need to give solid performance for penny-chew money. The original Pro-Ject Debut* of its day. That was decades ago, and now it's quite scary how much money you can spend on something that looks like it was knocked together in a DIY enthusiast's shed from a few bits and pieces screwed to B&Q contiboard.

*another example of a cheap-as-chips budget item, whose status and price has escalated so much over the years that its maker has had to undercut it with a cheaper line of products (Essential), ironically making it no longer the Debut of the Pro-Ject turntable line.

 

[Al ears]

I'd be interested to know why these two decks are your only options. If you cannot audition I wouldn't worry too much as 90% of what you are auditioning is the cartridge.

I would be more tempted by a deck priced somewhere between the two of known quality and spend ton the cartridge.

Apart from reading reviews I must say I have not heard or even seen the Electrocompaniet.

Regards the phono stage I would always aim for as neutral as possible, you can tune your system via the choice of cartridge.

 

[nopiano]

NOt sure where you are located rainsoothe, but a new Pioneer is available for £600 in the U.K., so would replacing it be an option? I have to add that the SL1200 is obviously the alternative, and for the price of the Electro you could get the better version. No speed issues then!

 

[Deleted member 108165]

NOt sure where you are located rainsoothe, but a new Pioneer is available for £600 in the U.K., so would replacing it be an option? I have to add that the SL1200 is obviously the alternative, and for the price of the Electro you could get the better version. No speed issues then!

With personal experience of the PLX1000 I would say that it can easily be bettered by anything in the £1K mark from respectable brands like Project, Rega, Clearaudio, VPI, Technics, etc. The Pioneer is an attractive beast but is just a very poorly constructed Technics clone. The Electrocompaniet looks absolutely stunning.

 

[Electro]

I've never heard it but here are a couple of reviews for those that know little about the EGC1 turntable .

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/electrocompaniet-ecg-1-turntable-and-arm/

http://hificlub.pl/sites/default/files/marki/broszury/electrocompaniet_ecg1_ecp2_hifi_choice_.pdf

https://www.electrocompaniet.no/products/classic/Turntables/

 

[davidf]

rainsoothe - where are you based?

 

[nopiano]

NOt sure where you are located rainsoothe, but a new Pioneer is available for £600 in the U.K., so would replacing it be an option? I have to add that the SL1200 is obviously the alternative, and for the price of the Electro you could get the better version. No speed issues then!

With personal experience of the PLX1000 I would say that it can easily be bettered by anything in the £1K mark from respectable brands like Project, Rega, Clearaudio, VPI, Technics, etc. The Pioneer is an attractive beast but is just a very poorly constructed Technics clone. The Electrocompaniet looks absolutely stunning.

No doubt that the Electro looks the best! Not sure about distribution in the UK but awaiting confirmation where rainsoothe lives...

 

[Macspur]

I've never heard it but here are a couple of reviews for those that know little about the EGC1 turntable .

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/electrocompaniet-ecg-1-turntable-and-arm/

http://hificlub.pl/sites/default/files/marki/broszury/electrocompaniet_ecg1_ecp2_hifi_choice_.pdf

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Al ears]

I've never heard it but here are a couple of reviews for those that know little about the EGC1 turntable .

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/electrocompaniet-ecg-1-turntable-and-arm/

http://hificlub.pl/sites/default/files/marki/broszury/electrocompaniet_ecg1_ecp2_hifi_choice_.pdf

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

Personally, and it may be very good, but I wouldn't buy a turntable from a company that cannot present a complete system. By that I mean at least complete the package with their own tonearm. It's a bit like buying a CD player without a disc-drive.

 

[Macspur]

I've never heard it but here are a couple of reviews for those that know little about the EGC1 turntable .

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/electrocompaniet-ecg-1-turntable-and-arm/

http://hificlub.pl/sites/default/files/marki/broszury/electrocompaniet_ecg1_ecp2_hifi_choice_.pdf

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

Personally, and it may be very good, but I wouldn't buy a turntable from a company that cannot present a complete system. By that I mean at least complete the package with their own tonearm. It's a bit like buying a CD player without a disc-drive.

Didn't realise that... very strange.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Vladimir]

Personally, and it may be very good, but I wouldn't buy a turntable from a company that cannot present a complete system. By that I mean at least complete the package with their own tonearm.

Would you buy speakers from a manufacturer that doesn't make their own drivers?

It's a bit like buying a CD player without a disc-drive.

You mean like buying a Marantz/Oppo/Naim/Mcintosh/etc CDP with a Phillips/Sony transport in it?

 

[rainsoothe]

Hey all, been away for the day. Thanks for the input. I am based in Romania, and the reason I can't audition is that the Electro only comes on order, and I have issues with the only Rega dealer here. The Electro would have a humongous price reduction, as it's the same dealer where I bought my Pioneer from, and he's very, very helpful and made me a great offer. He also stocks Nagaoka, so my thinking was trading the Pioneer in for Nagaoka mp500 and geting the Rega instead. I'm not interested in Pro-Ject, as the (admitedly low budget) one I heard a while ago was pretty noisy, and as far as I understand, most Pro-Ject tt's have some sort of motor noise that leaks. No-one imports Technics or Michell tt's here. The only other brand that I can find and would be tempted to test would be Kuzma, but I'm not keen on stuff without a lid, or that would come with a humongous, custom made one, because it would cover the TV

The Electrocompaniet option, though, would stretch a lot beyond my initial budget, and would leave me without a proper cartridge (mine has an issue) or a budget for a good one. Also, my current phono stage is a Yaquin, which recommends a minimum of 4mv output, the Nagaoka is 3mv. So my thinking is that the Rega would be a good upgrade, and it being (A LOT) cheaper would not only help me save some cash for the holiday seasons, but also let me manuever with a better cartridge and an appropriate phono pre. So I'm going for the Rega.

The Electrocompanniet does look stunning indeed, and I know the Jelco arm is very well regarded - and I also like the in-built VTA adjustment and the overall flexibility. My dealer assured me it's a great piece of engineering and that it does sound great (on the "musical" side of things). But of course he heard it pimped up with a 3k pound tonearm etc etc.

 

[Al ears]

Personally, and it may be very good, but I wouldn't buy a turntable from a company that cannot present a complete system. By that I mean at least complete the package with their own tonearm.

Would you buy speakers from a manufacturer that doesn't make their own drivers?

It's a bit like buying a CD player without a disc-drive.

You mean like buying a Marantz/Oppo/Naim/Mcintosh/etc CDP with a Phillips/Sony transport in it?

Not the same thing really. And I meant without a drive at all. You choose your own to install....... now come to think of it..

 

[Electro]

If you don't buy the Electro turntable you will always be wondering , "what if I had --- " in the back of your mind . *wink*

 

[nopiano]

If you don't buy the Electro turntable you will always be wondering , "what if I had --- " in the back of your mind . *wink*

A very good point, and given your location finding a dealer you can rely on is a big factor.

I stayed with friends in Rimnicu Valcea many moons ago. A beautiful country.

 

[Vladimir]

Not the same thing really. And I meant without a drive at all. You choose your own to install....... now come to think of it..

I get it. Just pulling your pant leg a bit.

 

[drummerman]

Hey all, been away for the day. Thanks for the input. I am based in Romania, and the reason I can't audition is that the Electro only comes on order, and I have issues with the only Rega dealer here. The Electro would have a humongous price reduction, as it's the same dealer where I bought my Pioneer from, and he's very, very helpful and made me a great offer. He also stocks Nagaoka, so my thinking was trading the Pioneer in for Nagaoka mp500 and geting the Rega instead. I'm not interested in Pro-Ject, as the (admitedly low budget) one I heard a while ago was pretty noisy, and as far as I understand, most Pro-Ject tt's have some sort of motor noise that leaks. No-one imports Technics or Michell tt's here. The only other brand that I can find and would be tempted to test would be Kuzma, but I'm not keen on stuff without a lid, or that would come with a humongous, custom made one, because it would cover the TV

The Electrocompaniet option, though, would stretch a lot beyond my initial budget, and would leave me without a proper cartridge (mine has an issue) or a budget for a good one. Also, my current phono stage is a Yaquin, which recommends a minimum of 4mv output, the Nagaoka is 3mv. So my thinking is that the Rega would be a good upgrade, and it being (A LOT) cheaper would not only help me save some cash for the holiday seasons, but also let me manuever with a better cartridge and an appropriate phono pre. So I'm going for the Rega.

The Electrocompanniet does look stunning indeed, and I know the Jelco arm is very well regarded - and I also like the in-built VTA adjustment and the overall flexibility. My dealer assured me it's a great piece of engineering and that it does sound great (on the "musical" side of things). But of course he heard it pimped up with a 3k pound tonearm etc etc.

The Cartridge and phono stage are the most important parts. It's where I would spend. Turntables, as long as they measure decent, are plentyful.

Rega have decades of manufacturing experience.

If its the best measuring deck you want then the new 1210 is probably it.

Rega have decades of TT manufacturing experience ... . I actually think the RP6 is a beautiful example of minimalism design. The lightweight construction has its own benefits.

 

[Vladimir]

If Amstrad was coming back into the audio consumer electronics market, Lord Sugar should definitely hire drummerman as head of marketing. *biggrin*

 

[davidf]

If Amstrad was coming back into the audio consumer electronics market, Lord Sugar should definitely hire drummerman as head of marketing. *biggrin*

Theyd probably outsell Sonos though.

 

[Vladimir]

If Amstrad was coming back into the audio consumer electronics market, Lord Sugar should definitely hire drummerman as head of marketing. *biggrin*

Theyd probably outsell Sonos though.

No doubt. We all secretly crave for speakers easy to lift by holding the hotglued speaker wire and read frequency response print on the front baffle.

PS: They've been in the business for a long time and they make their own single motor dual well cassette players, as well as tonearms.