Elac speakers.

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Today I went out to test some speakers.I wanted a test from the B&W 684/685.I went to a shop and the guy started with the 683!(to show the difference between 684 and 683).Then he asked me if he could let me hear something else,what was ok for me.

I could not beleive what I heared,those other speakers blew the B&W's away.It was a pair of Elac fs 127's.I also tested in 5.1 with 2 Elac fs 123's and it sounded brilliant.(i.c.w sony 2400 receiver)and they are at the same price as a B&W 684/685 set.

Is there anyone who knows this brand of speakers or has experiance with them?I would like to have some opinions on this!!

thx
 

ear

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german speakers are quite good actually.heard a lot of heco's and magnat's never elacs..but if you like their sound...why not? and thwy look beautifull also
 
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Anonymous

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Elac is a very reputable brand, and comes up with some of the best loudspeakers out there.

Since you like the sound of them, and they fit within your budget, I would say, buy with confidence.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Indeed,I think I'm going to.

Anyone else an idea?Maybe WH people?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
elac make excellent speakers heard them against some b&w cm1s and thought them a lot better

canton speakers are excellent too but like elac hard to find here
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I noticed that the Elac fs range (the ones I like and want to buy)have a 4 ohm nominal impedance and a 3.6 minimum impedance.

What does this actually mean?

Are they ok for a Yamaha rx-v 1065 or a Denon avr 2310?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Elac is a very highly awared loud speaker, it doesnt get very much attention though which is unfortunate.

There is a Hi-Fi specilist in my city called Merlin Audio Design. The stock a wide range of excellent gear, and strongly recommend Elac as their favourite. They recommmened to me that their own brand of amplifiers they make themselfs "Naquadria" match elac perfectly. They also stock Primare at mid to hi range, and Cambridge audio at entry level.

As a rule of thumb Merlin Audio Design don't use centre speakers. Food for thought perhaps. Try it for yourself, if you dont like the sound of the centre you might be able to upgrade to the FS 207
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carter

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what an idiot i am.in one of the posts it said thay looked nice and i was thinking if you like that kinda look

genfish can we keep this between us if it gets out it could be abit embarasing for me
emotion-10.gif
 

GJ

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I bought Elac sat speakers in 2004 and have been very happy with them they were 4 star reviewed at the time. They came highly recommended by the dealer and sounded much better than the packaged denon speakers with the 770 system.

Their higher end speakers seem to be well received in Germany and are usually quite attractive. The dont seem interested in spending money in the UK to raise their profile.

Not to shoot my glowing review down but I have just upgraded to the B & W MT25 package to go with my new Denon 2310 and I have been blown away by the difference. Thats just with normal tv and sky HD movies, now that my free Chord HDMI has arrived I cant wait to hear the difference with the HD audio via the PS3 at the weekend!
 
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Anonymous

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lazarus, the lower the impedance is, the more current and power a loudspeaker draws from an amplifier.

Impedance is usually stated as "nominal" because it is not constant or flat. At different frequencies, a loudspeaker will sometimes draw more and sometimes draw less current and power from an amplifier.

Generally, for A/V Receivers (especially on the lower end of the price-range), it might be a better idea to choose loudspeakers that are less current and power-hungry - i.e. nominally 6 or 8ohm.

However, a well-designed A/V Receiver should not have too many problems driving a 4ohm loudspeaker as long as the impedance does not stay at 4ohm for most of the time and the volume level is not always at 11 or 12!

Hope I am making sense here.
 
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Anonymous

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nodnarb4444:

genfish can we keep this between us if it gets out it could be abit embarasing for me
emotion-10.gif


Lol, your secrets safe with me and the other 44,533 members
emotion-5.gif
 

carter

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genfish:nodnarb4444:

genfish can we keep this between us if it gets out it could be abit embarasing for me
emotion-10.gif


Lol, your secrets safe with me and the other 44,533 members
emotion-5.gif


thanx chris ,i feel better now
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I have FS-127 paired with an Onkyo AV receiver for over a year now and am very happy with it. Although its paired in a AV system, I use it extensively for stereo listening and I absolutely love the sound. I have always used smaller Mordaunt Short speakers and when I decided to migrate to a floor stander and started looking around,I realised how much budget-challenged I was! I have a friend at a local hi-fi shop who kept prodding me to take an audion of this combination he has in his listening room. After auditioning many speaker brands, I was blown away by the FS127 pair! I couldnt believe my ears, and I went around the room actually checking if he had wired some higher-end speaker in trying to fool me! After fully convincing myself of the sound, I replicated the same set-up from the listening room. (FS-127, onkyo mid range reciever, QED silver anniversary XT bi-amp, conter speaker) except for the source(he had a high-end blue-ray player and I use a rather cheap DVD player). There is a 15% drop from the listening room to home condition and I attribute this to the source. Other than that I am fully satisfied with speakers. It punches way above its weight.

Good luck!

Roy
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I auditioned them together with the fs 123 and center and sub from Elac's FS range against a set B&W's 683/684 and 685/686.The amp was a Sony es 2400.It was just as if the B&W set up was not even worth half the price compared to those Elac's.

The price I payed was 2000 euro for the whole 5.1 set.

I immediatly bought the set.Amp will be the Yamaha rx-v 1065
 
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Anonymous

Guest
as for speakers, I have been following a thread on another forum as regards 4 ohm speakers ... (I would post the link, but its against WHF rules .... but here is the opening post ... makes for interesting reading)

Why 4 Ohm Loads Stress Your Amplifier

There have been quite a few questions lately regarding the safety (or otherwise) of driving 4 ohm speakers from amplifiers only rated to drive 8 ohm loads.

Rather than just add to the mass of unsubstantiated conflicting opinions (e.g. "amplifier XXX is built like a tank, so it must be able to drive 4 ohm loads"), I thought I'd attempt to apply a bit of science to the subject. Hopefully this will make people aware of some of the issues involved in driving low impedances.

In relation to ensuring reliable long-term operation, three of the most important parameters for a transistor are it's voltage, current, and power ratings. Exceed any of these three at your peril.

Voltage : In any half decent amplifier design the output transistors will have a sufficient voltage rating to withstand all "normal" operating conditions. Only abnormal events such as lightening strikes are likely to cause failures.

Current : The transistors need to be able to handle the maximum currents taken by the load. Speaker impedance can (and does) vary considerably with frequency, and often dips well below the nominal 4 or 8 ohm value. Amplifier designers are well aware of this fact and counter it either by using higher rated transistors with large peak current capability (good) and/or by incorporating current limiting circuitry (not quite so good, but better than blown outputs!). In practice a good amplifier design will withstand the ultimate over-current event - the accidental short circuit of it's outputs (but don't blame me if yours doesn't!).

Power : Every transistor has a maximum power dissipation rating. This is not a fixed figure but varies with the temperature of the transistor. For example, a transistor might be rated to dissipate 100 watts at 25 degrees centigrade but only 20 watts at 100 degrees centigrade. The amplifier designer should provide cooling, in the form of heatsinks, to ensure that the maximum temperatures are not exceeded.

It has been suggested by some here on AK that if you want to drive 4 ohm speakers with an amplifier only rated for 8 ohm loads, then everything will be OK if you limit the volume so that the output current is kept below that which would have been taken by the 8 ohm speakers. The following calculations will show just how wrong this is.

I have used "Excel" to calculate the output transistor power dissipation for a typical 200 watt class AB amplifier when driving an 8 ohm load at full output and 4 ohm load at half output (so that the output currents are the same for both 8 and 4 ohm loads).

The following assumptions have been made :
(1) The load is purely resistive.
(2) The output waveform is symmetrical about zero, so the calculation only needs to be done for the positive half cycle (180 degrees).
(3) The amplifier output can swing to within 5 volts of the supply rails before clipping.
(4) Bias current is neglected as it's contribution to the maximum power dissipation is relatively low for a typical class AB design.

The basic amplifier topology for the analysis is shown below :

The voltage, current, and power dissipation waveforms for 8 ohm load at full output and 4 ohm load at half output are shown below (NOTE: The "Output Transistor Dissipation" figure is the total power dissipation per channel, so to get a "per transistor" figure simply divide by the number of output transistors (not pairs of transistors) per channel).

The dark blue trace is the DC supply voltage from the main filter capacitors.
The sum of the output voltage (pink) and the voltage across the output transistor (green) must always add up to this DC supply voltage.
The yellow trace is the current which flows through the output transistor and into the load.
Output power (light blue) is simply the output current (yellow) multiplied by the output voltage (pink).
Output transistor power dissipation (red) is likewise simply the transistor current (yellow) multiplied by the voltage across the transistor (green).

So, for the 8 ohm load we have : Peak Current = 7.5 Amps, Output Power = 225 Watts, Output Transistor Dissipation = 85 Watts.

And for the 4 ohm load we have : Peak Current = 7.5 Amps, Output Power = 112 Watts, Output Transistor Dissipation = 198 Watts.

Despite keeping the maximum currents the same by halving the power into the 4 ohm load, the power dissipation in the amplifier output transistors is massively increased compared to full output into 8 ohms.

The following graph shows how the power dissipation (i.e. internal heating) of this amplifier would vary with output power for 4 and 8 ohm loads. Note that the figures are "per channel" and so the heating is doubled for stereo operation.

I have noticed that Pioneer specify output powers for their SX-x3x, SX-xx50, and SX-xx80 receivers into both 4 and 8 ohms, except for the SX-1280 and SX-1980 for which output power is quoted into 8 ohms only. Similarly, the SPEC 4 is rated at 150 watts into 8 ohms and 180 watts into 4 ohms, whereas the output power for the larger SPEC 2 is only quoted into 8 ohms (250 watts).

My suspicion is that this is because the cooling on these higher power units is insufficient to allow them to develop the same (or greater) continuous power into 4 ohms as they can into 8 ohms (output power being measured by the old FTC regulations which required 1 hour pre-conditioning at 1/3 of rated output, i.e. near maximum heating of the output transistors).
Pioneer could of course have specified an output power into 4 ohms for these models, but how good would it look if the output into 4 ohms was considerably less than that into 8 ohms?? Better for them simply not to give a power rating into 4 ohms. Of course, this is only my opinion and I'm open to suggestions from more knowledgeable AK'ers.

To conclude then : For conventional class AB amplifiers the use of 4 ohm speakers greatly increases amplifier heating compared to when using 8 ohm loads - even if the maximum output currents are kept the same by exercising restraint with the volume control.

OK guys, I've set myself up to be shot down in flames - who's going to take the first shot??

- Richard B.

Attached Thumbnails
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7755&d=1139937680 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7756&d=1139937680 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7757&d=1139937680 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7815&d=1140007143 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16396&d=1148300579

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Anonymous

Guest
The speaker manual tells me;For amps from 4 to 8 ohm;min.impedance 3,6 ohm.

The receiver would be a Yamaha rx-v 1065.

What do you think?

Will it be ok?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
lazarus:

The speaker manual tells me;For amps from 4 to 8 ohm;min.impedance 3,6 ohm.

The receiver would be a Yamaha rx-v 1065.

What do you think?

Will it be ok?

too technical for me, but am sure someone with more knowledge will comment shortly
 
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Anonymous

Guest
too technical for me, but am sure someone with more knowledge will comment shortly

Too technical??-)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
lazarus:

too technical for me, but am sure someone with more knowledge will comment shortly

Too technical??-)

OK Lararus .... I like a bit of sarcasm .... sounds like you have a phd in common sense and know everything there is to know about everything

so, I am not 'too bright' ... but hey, I can lift heavy things! (and I had a traumatic childhood) .... so give us your take on the link and explain it in 'layman's language' (step by step)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Eh what I mean is;you give such a technical explination,things I've never heard about!And than you tell me that's it's all too technical?Ik didn't understand that it was to technical after giving such an explination!

Actually,that was meant as a compliment!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Hmm,I'm sorry but I'm not that good with the English language,sometimes it's possible that I express myself in a wrong way!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
no probs Lazarus, however, if you read the post properly, you would have seen that I never wrote the post, .... I copied and pasted it from another forum ...

makes for interesting reading though (think I will shy away from speakers that are 4 Ohm, and stick to the 8 Ohm)
 

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