Dolby Atmos dilemma: 7.1.2 or 5.1.4?

[Series1boy]

I've been following this thread with confusion until now, very helpful and I think the penny has finally .dropped for me but I do have the following query:

I'm now looking at the Denon x4100 to which it recieved a very good review in the latest home cinema choice. So, with my current Focal chorus 713 floor standers, centre, sub and definitive tech rears all in a 5.1 system, I could purchase a pair of up firing speakers rather than drilling 2 holes in my ceiling? If so this would work for me, but what is the difference in sound quality between these two options and would I need to buy an additional amp the same as BB?

cheers

I am unable to paste links on this forum, what is wrong?! I've found some info I would like to post a link to...

 

[bigboss]

Denon X4100W is a 7 channel amplifier. So it should run a 5.1.2 without needing additional amp. Yes, you can use upfiring speakers for Atmos.

However, if you're thinking of a 5.1.4 or 7.1.2 setup, you need 9 channels of amplification. So you'll need to add an additional 2 channel amplifier, or pay only £100 more and go for the Marantz which has 9 channels of amplification.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'm not sure about the Denon, but many of the Marantz amps guarantee 70% of the receiver's maximum output into two channels, to all of its channels during multi-channel use. Worth considering.

 

[Series1boy]

Definitely worth considering I'll go and have a demo. Although, I'm sure a 5.1.2 will be sufficient for me and the neighbours

 

[bigboss]

I don't think it'll make any difference to the neighbours. From what I've read so far, it's definitely worth considering a 5.1.4 system if you want a proper Atmos experience. No point in compromising, if you can accommodate a 5.1.4 system.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

All the more reason for me to now think of one day getting your Marantz SR7009

You can't have mine! Buy one of your own!!

Spoilsport!!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I am unable to paste links on this forum, what is wrong?! I've found some info I would like to post a link to...

When you copy the URL for the link, click on the fourth symbol from the left in the row of symbols immediately above the typing window (next to the Underline symbol) and paste in the URL for your link there?

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I don't think it'll make any difference to the neighbours. From what I've read so far, it's definitely worth considering a 5.1.4 system if you want a proper Atmos experience. No point in compromising, if you can accommodate a 5.1.4 system.

I agree completely. The neigbours won't notice that you are sparing them two in-ceiling or upfiring speakers, go for 5.1.4 if at all you can.

 

[Series1boy]

I am now re-thinking my upgrades

 

[bigboss]

I asked the following question to Marantz:

I'm planning to get the Marantz SR7009 and PM6005 for 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos. The speakers are from Monitor Audio Trimless 200 series of in wall and in ceiling speakers.I'm just trying to understand how to connect the 7.1.4 setup. The instructions are a little confusing. Can you throw some light please?I am hoping to connect the stereo amplifier to the rear surrounds.Looking at the rear photo of the AVR, I'm thinking of assigning Atmos ceiling fronts to Height 1 and rears to Height 2. I'll then connect the stereo amplifier to "surround back" pre-outs. Would that work?What confuses me is what should I assign the Atmos speakers as? Front height and rear height? (how will the amp know they're for Atmos?)

This is the response I received within a day!!

Thank you for your enquiry, Please see below the recommended method for obtaining 7.1.4 Atmos:

Unfortunately it is not possible to connect the PM6005 to the SB pre-outs and have this power amplification assigned elsewhere. When you go through the Amp Assign options either in the setup menu or as part of the Audyssey setup you are able to set what the height / wide channels relate to which is essentially telling the receiver what is for Atoms. I hope this information is useful Sincerely, Marantz Customer Support

I further asked Marantz:

So just to clarify, it's the "Height 2" on the Marantz SR7009 which will act as rear top (Atmos) speakers, and connect the PM6005 to pre-outs of "Height 2".

Am I right?

This is the response I got (again within a day.....I am very impressed!!):

This is indeed correct. When using the PM6005, as the Audyssey on the receiver will be handling speaker setup and also, because the receiver will be providing pre-amplification, it would probably be best using the PM6005 in Source Direct mode to avoid 2x levels of pre-amplification.
I hope this helps Sincerely,Marantz Customer Support

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Couple of questions:
I wonder if the current crop of Dolby Atmos receivers will get a firmware update for DTS answer to Atmos.

Also, I wonder if and when more 11.2 channel amps will be released next year.

 

[Sliced Bread]

Couple of questions: I wonder if the current crop of Dolby Atmos receivers will get a firmware update for DTS answer to Atmos.

Also, I wonder if and when more 11.2 channel amps will be released next year.

Unfortuantely I don't think they will.
When the current Atmos receivers were released (just before Atmos at home was), they made a pretty big deal that they would be upgradabe to Atmos. Nothing has been said for DTS. Also I don't think I have ever seen a main brand upgrade their historical amplifers to run a new audio format.

I seem to recall about 9 months ago reading an interview with someone from Dolby who said that any receiver up to 2 years old should be upgradable to Dolby Atmos as long as they have enough channels. But this didn't happen. Maybe this information was incorrect, or maybe the manufacturers have no benefiting in upgrading old receivers when they can encourage you to pay again for the next model.

I'm going to wait until some receivers are released which have a manufacturers commitment to update them to cover DTS. From what I've read, that'l be towards the end of next year.

 

[bigboss]

More importantly, is DTS going to have the same speaker placement as Dolby? Speaker placements for Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D are very different. So if your installation is already committed to Atmos, perhaps DTS upgradeability may be irrelevant? We'll wait for official DTS announcement, likely to be in January.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Nothing has probably been said about a DTS upgrade yet as the DTS format hasn't been announced. I believe that Denon have said a couple of their receivers will get the DTS upgrade when it appears, so if that is the case, I would expect the equivalent Marantz models to get the same treatment.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Thanks all for replies.
Conclusion:
I will wait till next Christmas.
However, I already have 4 wires in ceiling in the Atmos configuration.

 

[Sliced Bread]

More importantly, is DTS going to have the same speaker placement as Dolby? Speaker placements for Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D are very different. So if your installation is already committed to Atmos, perhaps DTS upgradeability may be irrelevant? We'll wait for official DTS announcement, likely to be in January.

Yes, this is my concern too.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Also, I wonder if and when more 11.2 channel amps will be released next year.

I would expect that it is more probable that more nine-channel amplifiers with the option of adding an extra stereo amplifier would be released.

 

[VMR]

Listened to 5.1.4 in shop but have gone with 7.1.2 at home because of the cable runs already had set up. I think 7.1.2 is best as it also lends itself to straight Dolby true hd and DTS hd on other blurays. Do not go 5.1.2 as I had this before adding the rear speakers and it does not place the surround well. One thing to consider is matching the ceiling speakers as voice can be placed up high! As in transformers 4.

 

[VMR]

I have the denon avr-w5200 and it's stunning. Set up 7.1.2 now with 2 ceiling speakers in middle. The sound stage is stunning large and open. Have gone from old lexicon mc8 so lost some detail but gained the feeling of being in the middle of everything. Highly recommend denon!

 

[thx1138]

I too have gone for Dolby Atmos in a 7.1.2 configuration using a Denon AVR X-5200W. Very, very happy with the Denon Receiver (my first Denon product). Prefer the chassis style over the Marantz - but I know that's very subjective. Audyssey XT 32 and dual (independant) sub-woofer support made Denon the only kid on the block as far as I was concerned. No interested in Onkyo since they dropped Audyssey.

My pre ATMOS speakers are all Monitor Audio Apex series - truly fantasic speakers, that sound even better when driven by the Denon AVR X-5200W. I've gone for two ceiling mounted Monitor Audio Shadow 50s. These really complement the Apex speakers. The Dolby Atmos demo disc sounds wonderful. Transformers 4 sounds good - shame the movie is terrible. Dolby really needs work hard and get the studios to support the format with some good content. 'Gravity' in Atmos is due out on Blu-ray in February, so looking forward to that...

My Cinema Room is fairly small, with a single 2 seater sofa located about 2 thirds back. The ceiling speakers are directly overhead. For rooms with a larger seating area, then 7.1.4 would probably be a better choice (but external amplification is requried).

Regards,

James.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_576051203]

I have the Yamaha rxa 3040 configured 7.1 ( MA sliver 10 FR. FL. Silver Center , silver fx SRL , silver 2 SB)

planing to upgrade for atmos 7.1.4 and I have a set of monitor audio Mass 5.0 that I am not using in the moment , is it possible to mount the mass speakers on ceiling 2FH, 2RH ? Should I be worried about mixing the tonal and using unmatched timber?

 

[bigboss]

Technically you can, if you can live with Mass speakers hanging from the ceiling. Tonal match is more difficult to answer, as the drivers are different even though from the same manufacturer. Try replacing your surrounds with Mass and see if they blend well, before putting them up in the ceiling.

If you go for ceiling speakers, Trimless 200 is a tonal match to Silver series.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_576051203]

Thank you Bigboss , With no doubt the Trimless is a better option in general ,but i can't manage to have in ceiling speakers where do I live , so my only options are either MA Mass or B&W M1 or Tannoy di5 dc all monted on ceiling as TF and TR . My concerns are the dispersion and tonal matching however the Tannoy has 90 degree dispersion but I prefere to stick with MA , what do you think ?

i can go for Trimless but then I have to put them in mdf custom made boxes so I can mount the boxes .

 

[Alantiggger]

Do or can One hear a difference between dolby atmos and other up to date sound formats .... or is it just another brilliant thing for folks to spend their hard earned cach on ? *drinks*

 

[bigboss]

Do or can One hear a difference between dolby atmos and other up to date sound formats .... or is it just another brilliant thing for folks to spend their hard earned cach on ?   *drinks*

Check AV forums reviews of Dolby Atmos.