Dolby Atmos dilemma: 7.1.2 or 5.1.4?

[Frank Harvey]

With an 11.1 system, you're asking your receiver to "create" channels and the information they receive from a 5.1 or 7.1 signal. Atmos has been designed to be used with two or four in-ceiling speakers, and with 5.1 or 7.1 as a base to add Atmos speakers.

Generally speaking, the more speakers you are surrounded with, the better the illusion of envelopment, but there's always exceptions.

 

[bigboss]

The only concern I have is; my seating position is against the rear wall against the corner. So for a person sitting near the corner, the left side surround and left rear surround will be just next to his / her ears on either side. Not sure if that's a good idea.

 

[Frank Harvey]

The only concern I have is; my seating position is against the rear wall against the corner. So for a person sitting near the corner, the left side surround and left rear surround will be just next to his / her ears on either side. Not sure if that's a good idea.

Sometimes ideal seating position or speaker position just isn't possible. The receiver's auto setup will try and counteract situations like that as much as possible using levels and delays, but there's only so much it can do. Is there no way to just ease the seating out a little bit?

 

[jonathanRD]

Cheers guys, this is a really interesting thread.

I've been pondering what to add next to my HC and this thread covers all the main issues for me, Atmos, surround speaker height and position, seating position, and whether to add more front or more surround speakers. So many options *scratch_one-s_head*

 

[bigboss]

The only concern I have is; my seating position is against the rear wall against the corner. So for a person sitting near the corner, the left side surround and left rear surround will be just next to his / her ears on either side. Not sure if that's a good idea.

Sometimes ideal seating position or speaker position just isn't possible. The receiver's auto setup will try and counteract situations like that as much as possible using levels and delays, but there's only so much it can do. Is there no way to just ease the seating out a little bit?

The sofa is designed to be a corner placement. Don't think it will work if I pull it forwards by a feet or so.

I think it should be ok.

 

[Sliced Bread]

The only concern I have is; my seating position is against the rear wall against the corner. So for a person sitting near the corner, the left side surround and left rear surround will be just next to his / her ears on either side. Not sure if that's a good idea.

Sometimes ideal seating position or speaker position just isn't possible. The receiver's auto setup will try and counteract situations like that as much as possible using levels and delays, but there's only so much it can do. Is there no way to just ease the seating out a little bit?

The sofa is designed to be a corner placement. Don't think it will work if I pull it forwards by a feet or so.

I think it should be ok.

If the speaker is going to be at ear height and that close to the ear then I would strongly consider raising the speaker so it fires over the head, and if possible with wall mounts aim it slightly down and just in font of the listener.

I know it's probably not ideal when considering Atmos ceiling speakers, but I have this same problem at home and the suround effect is really quite good (5.1 not Atmos). If I put the speaker at ear height, then no matter what I do with the settings (or the auto calibration) it still sounds like a speaker next to my ear.

How close are we talking? For me it is about 3 feet.

 

[bigboss]

Perhaps you're right about speaker placement. In any case, due to the sofa, I think the speakers will end up being above the ear level (just above the head).

The rear speakers will be about 1-2 feet behind the listener sat right in front of it.

 

[bigboss]

Son_of_SJ, only you could change my plans!!

I've just bought the Marantz PM6005 customer return for £206 with full manufacturer's warranty (with NHS discount)! *clapping*

 

[bigboss]

I called them today. NHS discount isn't available on already discounted items. So paid an additional £22.90 over the phone. Still good value I think.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Son_of_SJ, only you could change my plans!!

Gosh, I wish that I could make some other people (mainly with an XX chromosome!) change their plans!

I've just bought the Marantz PM6005 customer return for £206 with full manufacturer's warranty (with NHS discount)! *clapping*

I'd forgotten that the Marantz PM6005 was that good until I re-read this What Hi-Fi review. Well done doctor, excellent choice!

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Maybe David at Frank Harvey can help me? The 4-page article about Dolby Atmos in the November 2014 issue of Home Cinema Choice said that, in a 7.1.4 arrangement with upfiring Atmos speakers, that the rear upfiring speakers (assuming small modules, not full-range speakers) should be placed on the surround back speakers, not on the surround speakers. My surround back speakers are very small, Yamaha EX130s, and are only about the size of my hand. My surround speakers in contast, are about a metre high and are about a foot square in cross-section. They are also forced to be placed at about 145 degrees from the centre position, not the classic 110 degrees for surround speakers (I do have to be able to open the door!). Would it be okay for me to place upfiring Atmos modules on my surround speakers rather than on the surround backs?

 

[macdiddy]

I may be wrong but I thought that the upfiring Atmos speakers were supposed to be placed on top of the front speakers.

*dance4*

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Quite so, if you use only two upfiring speakers. If you want to use four upfiring Atmos speakers in a 7.1.4 arrangement, then the front Atmos pair go on top of the front left and right speakers, and the rear Atmos pair go where? I'm asking if the rear upfiring Atmos pair of speakers can be placed on the surround speakers, rather than on the surround back speakers.

 

[Andy Clough]

Good thread this. We were experimenting with a 5.2.4 installation in our main cinema room last week, still some work to be done. Accommodating the extra speakers is a bit of a challenge.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Maybe David at Frank Harvey can help me? The 4-page article about Dolby Atmos in the November 2014 issue of Home Cinema Choice said that, in a 7.1.4 arrangement with upfiring Atmos speakers, that the rear upfiring speakers (assuming small modules, not full-range speakers) should be placed on the surround back speakers, not on the surround speakers. My surround back speakers are very small, Yamaha EX130s, and are only about the size of my hand. My surround speakers in contast, are about a metre high and are about a foot square in cross-section. They are also forced to be placed at about 145 degrees from the centre position, not the classic 110 degrees for surround speakers (I do have to be able to open the door!). Would it be okay for me to place upfiring Atmos modules on my surround speakers rather than on the surround backs?

Placed on the surround back speakers would be optimal, but there's nothing to stop you trying them placed on the surround speakers. We will have an Atmos set up here shortly using the KEF R50 Atmos speakers in a 5.1.4 Atmos setup ready for our open day in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to experiment further for myself then.

 

[macdiddy]

This Atmos thing is already starting to sound confusing, I thought it was just a case of adding two more speakers to an existing 5.1 or 7.1 system (plus a new a/v amp) but now it seems that either ceiling mounted or upfiring speakers are required as well of,or instead of some of my existing speakers.

I think I'm going to wait untill DTS MDA comes to the home untill I upgrade my current amp but I might have to do some clearing out to fit the 48 speakers, 7 subs and 27 power amps that I saw on this web site article today.

http://stereos.about.com/od/Technical-Notes/ss/Is-DTS-MDA-the-Future-of-Audio-An-Ears-On-Report.htm#step-heading

*biggrin*

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Placed on the surround back speakers would be optimal, but there's nothing to stop you trying them placed on the surround speakers. We will have an Atmos set up here shortly using the KEF R50 Atmos speakers in a 5.1.4 Atmos setup ready for our open day in a couple of weeks, so I'll be able to experiment further for myself then.

Thank you for that, David!

Good thread this. We were experimenting with a 5.2.4 installation in our main cinema room last week, still some work to be done. Accommodating the extra speakers is a bit of a challenge.

Would the What Hi-Fi installation be with in-ceiling normal speakers or upfiring Atmos speakers with a notch high-frequency filter? Might you be able to install both in-ceilings and upfirings, so that you could compare the two?

 

[Son_of_SJ]

This Atmos thing is already starting to sound confusing, I thought it was just a case of adding two more speakers to an existing 5.1 or 7.1 system (plus a new a/v amp) but now it seems that either ceiling mounted or upfiring speakers are required as well of,or instead of some of my existing speakers.

Right from the very first article that I read about Atmos, it emphasised either in-ceiling or upfiring speakers, I'm sorry that you were inadvertently misled. I don't think that it's too confusing. If you have an existing 5.1 system or a 7.1 (with surround backs, not front heights or front wides) system, then you need either another two or another four in-ceiling or upfiring Atmos speakers. Simples! Mind you, I come from having an 11.1 system in the parlour, so contemplating a 7.1.4 Atmos system doesn't scare me (too much!).

I think I'm going to wait untill DTS MDA comes to the home untill I upgrade my current amp but I might have to do some clearing out to fit the 48 speakers, 7 subs and 27 power amps that I saw on this web site article today.

http://stereos.about.com/od/Technical-Notes/ss/Is-DTS-MDA-the-Future-of-...

*biggrin*

C'mon macdiddy, you really shouldn't try to frighten the horses with talk of 48 speakers! 7.1.4 for the home will be fine for the time being!! *dance4*

 

[macdiddy]

Sorry guys, just having a bit of fun with my last reply.

Son_of_SJ, thanks for the explanation, I currently have a 9.2 setup in my room with front heights installed on the ceiling (normal spks mounted on brackets).

Oh by the way, I finally got round to watch my "the Orpanage" bluray and I totally agree with you what an awesome sound mix it has, several moments nearly had me jumping out of my seat.

*drinks*

 

[bigboss]

If you've got front heights, worth checking Auro 3D layout (although not clear which format will be successful), including the "God speaker".

 

[Son_of_SJ]

Sorry guys, just having a bit of fun with my last reply.

That is allowed, especially on a Sunday!!

Oh by the way, I finally got round to watch my "the Orpanage" bluray and I totally agree with you what an awesome sound mix it has, several moments nearly had me jumping out of my seat.

*drinks*

I'm really glad that you liked The Orphange Blu-Ra!. And, though it's so effective, it isn't loud ALL the time! So the suddenly loud moments really startle.

If you've got front heights, worth checking Auro 3D layout (although not clear which format will be successful), including the "God speaker".

Thanks bigboss, will do, as well as keep up to date with macdiddy's DTS-UHD variation. All the more reason for me to now think of one day getting your Marantz SR7009, because I think that that will be able to play all new audio formats, as well as my own Audyssey DSX 11.1

 

[bigboss]

All the more reason for me to now think of one day getting your Marantz SR7009

You can't have mine! Buy one of your own!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

Oh by the way, I finally got round to watch my "the Orpanage" bluray and I totally agree with you what an awesome sound mix it has, several moments nearly had me jumping out of my seat.

On a good system, and played at a suitable level, the door slam energises the room, shifting the air, as though someone really has slammed the door! Great film. I really need to watch it again, it's been a little while...

 

[bigboss]

I asked the following question to Marantz:

I'm planning to get the Marantz SR7009 and PM6005 for 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos. The speakers are from Monitor Audio Trimless 200 series of in wall and in ceiling speakers.

I'm just trying to understand how to connect the 7.1.4 setup. The instructions are a little confusing. Can you throw some light please?

I am hoping to connect the stereo amplifier to the rear surrounds.

Looking at the rear photo of the AVR, I'm thinking of assigning Atmos ceiling fronts to Height 1 and rears to Height 2. I'll then connect the stereo amplifier to "surround back" pre-outs. Would that work?

What confuses me is what should I assign the Atmos speakers as? Front height and rear height? (how will the amp know they're for Atmos?)

This is the response I received within a day!!

Thank you for your enquiry, Please see below the recommended method for obtaining 7.1.4 Atmos:

Unfortunately it is not possible to connect the PM6005 to the SB pre-outs and have this power amplification assigned elsewhere.

When you go through the Amp Assign options either in the setup menu or as part of the Audyssey setup you are able to set what the height / wide channels relate to which is essentially telling the receiver what is for Atoms. I hope this information is useful Sincerely,Marantz Customer Support

 

[Series1boy]

I've been following this thread with confusion until now, very helpful and I think the penny has finally .dropped for me but I do have the following query:

I'm now looking at the Denon x4100 to which it recieved a very good review in the latest home cinema choice. So, with my current Focal chorus 713 floor standers, centre, sub and definitive tech rears all in a 5.1 system, I could purchase a pair of up firing speakers rather than drilling 2 holes in my ceiling? If so this would work for me, but what is the difference in sound quality between these two options and would I need to buy an additional amp the same as BB?

cheers