DOES speaker wire gauge MATTER or NOT ?

[Anonymous]

JohnDuncan:aliEnRIK:I put it to you Andrew that theyre are 2 types of cables (Im talking interconnects and speaker cables here) . Those that are transparant (All should be, and ALL will sound the same save perhaps a little more detail with those that are better shielded at frequency extremes) or theyre not (the vast majority of cables you review) So cables are different then? And one might be better than the other?As always the difference in sound is subjective.

Do we all have perfect hearing?

If you change any cable then your system will have a different sound , solid core , stranded , silver all will be different

Anyway we are not addressing the question DOES speaker wire gauge MATTER or NOT

Hopefully this is will address the issue, if the mods find the link acceptable

EDITED BY MODS - no, afraid we don't

 

[idc]

markyd:
I worked as an engineer in Abbey Road studios for several years. The entire studio (and many many others) use VDC cable......

Please confirm that by VDC you mean Van Damme. Certainly Van Damme and Proel are used in studio applications as they easily flex, have tough sheathing, are cheap and perform very well.

 

[aliEnRIK]

idc:markyd:
I worked as an engineer in Abbey Road studios for several years. The entire studio (and many many others) use VDC cable......

Please confirm that by VDC you mean Van Damme. Certainly Van Damme and Proel are used in studio applications as they easily flex, have tough sheathing, are cheap and perform very well.

Well Van Dammes own website testify to it, so im pretty sure it must be ~

http://www.vdctrading.com/products_gridview.asp?SubSectionID=1&secName=Van+Damme

 

[idc]

I had a look through the Abbey Rd site and there is no mention of cables. It would be interesting to know what Van Damme cables are used for and are they they only cables used.

I too an a big fan of Van Damme as it is what I settled on to make my cables.

 

[chebby]

idc:I had a look through the Abbey Rd site and there is no mention of cables. It would be interesting to know what Van Damme cables are used for and are they they only cables used.

A list on this page from Bond Music Research advertises which clients have used Van Damme products.

Or here. (Click on the 'drop downs' in the box on the right.)

 

[The_Lhc]

Fahnsen:After all, recording studios, as well as speaker manufacturers without interests in the cable industry, does.

This is an incomplete sentence. Does what?

 

[chebby]

the_lhc:Fahnsen:After all, recording studios, as well as speaker manufacturers without interests in the cable industry, does.This is an incomplete sentence. Does what?

Does... "trust that cables don't matter."

(From the end of Fahnsen's previous paragraph.)

 

[idc]

Thanks for the link Chebby. I may now call my next DIY cable the Out Of This World Abbey.

 

[Andrew Everard]

aliEnRIK:I read about a test of various speaker cables by simply measuring them. 2 of the most well known manufacturers refused to allow them to publish the results.

So why didn't the testers buy the cable and publish anyway. Were they worried about their relationship with the cable manufacturers in question?

 

[Andrew Everard]

aliEnRIK:I also believe that your all so used to reviewing brighter cables, that you believe (As I did) that they have more detail etc. When all theyre doing is 'colouring' the actual signal. So when you DO review an actual transparent cable, because its not as 'bright' you believe its not as good.

You get in a dreadful mess when you let belief systems colour your view of how others think, however transparently correct you may think your fuddled, coloured and clouded thinking may be. However congrats on getting the drug analogy in there, but you missed out the reference to religion. Word to the unwise: it kinda comes with the territory, IME.

But golly, these 'transparent' cables sound like the one true way, don't they? How could we all have been so stupid and naive when listening over decades, when you've found out just how 'transparent' they are, and that what you're now hearing is now correct when all else is wrong, just by reading about them...?

 

[aliEnRIK]

Thats right Andrew. Defend the magazine with as much vigour as you can muster

My thinking is as clear as a bell thank you very much

 

[idc]

Here is a link to an engineering paper on speaker cables and amps and speakers. It concludes that 12 AWG is the best compromise for cables and that Litz or multi strand performs better than one large wire. So yes gauge does matter.
http://www.apiguide.net/04actu/04musik/AES-cableInteractions.pdf

 

[aliEnRIK]

Andrew Everard:
aliEnRIK:I also believe that your all so used to reviewing brighter cables, that you believe (As I did) that they have more detail etc. When all theyre doing is 'colouring' the actual signal. So when you DO review an actual transparent cable, because its not as 'bright' you believe its not as good.

You get in a dreadful mess when you let belief systems colour your view of how others think, however transparently correct you may think your fuddled, coloured and clouded thinking may be. However congrats on getting the drug analogy in there, but you missed out the reference to religion. Word to the unwise: it kinda comes with the territory, IME.

But golly, these 'transparent' cables sound like the one true way, don't they? How could we all have been so stupid and naive when listening over decades, when you've found out just how 'transparent' they are, and that what you're now hearing is now correct when all else is wrong, just by reading about them...?

Heres some facts Andrew ~

The very best cables are completely transparent, letting ALL the information through without distorting it in any way. You know this and I know this, even if Van Damme arent completely transparent (Im not saying they arnt, im simply stating a fact that the very best cables are transparent)

All other cables then my default MUST be colouring the sound somehow

If you do agree with the above statement (Which I know you do, you just cant admit it), then you also know that WHF would be shooting itself in its foot due to all the 5 star ratings its given cables that can at times sound very different to one another
Your attacking my judgement is all your left with. As anything else
would mean you admit defeat. In which case id say we're at a stalemate, as clearly you could NEVER 'admit' to that. (And no, it wasnt a simple case of reading a 'measurement' somewhere and changing my whole way of thinking, its doing a whole load of my own tests and lots of research on the subject)

You can of course give 5 stars to any cable you desire, but if its not transparent then your saying colouration of the sound is quite acceptable (Subjective, but id definitely have to disagree)

 

[aliEnRIK]

idc:
Here is a link to an engineering paper on speaker cables and amps and speakers. It concludes that 12 AWG is the best compromise for cables and that Litz or multi strand performs better than one large wire. So yes gauge does matter.

http://www.apiguide.net/04actu/04musik/AES-cableInteractions.pdf

Nice find idc

 

[John Duncan]

I'm lost. Do all cables sound the same or not?

 

[aliEnRIK]

JohnDuncan:I'm lost. Do all cables sound the same or not?

Thats a definite no

 

[Andrew Everard]

aliEnRIK:If you do agree with the above statement (Which I know you do, you just cant admit it)

There is no point discussing further with someone under the delusion they know better than I what I am thinking....

 

[markyd]

Sorry, I have been trying to reply to this thread for a couple of days on a few different computers - but the page has not let me???

Anyway - yes VDC = Van Damme Cables.

The speaker cable in question was 4 x 4m Blue

To try to keep the answer on-topic, AWG is of less significance than quality OFC and cable diameter beyond that of your speaker terminals diameter (and indeed the internal speaker wiring to the crossover) is IMO unnecessary.

Cable discussions are always a bone of contention - I would guess the resistance that the expense is justified is from people who have already invested heavily in them and dont want to feel they have made a bad investment.

Personally, I think the money is better spent elsewhere with the most significant audible improvements in DAC's and Speakers.

But that is just my personal opinion.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Andrew Everard:
aliEnRIK:If you do agree with the above statement (Which I know you do, you just cant admit it)

There is no point discussing further with someone under the delusion they know better than I what I am thinking....

If you think different then please say what you believe andrew. Are you saying cables (And by default) all hifi components should NOT be transparent?

Understanding where WHF stand on this will at least let everyone know how you grade cables and equipment when you review them

 

[idc]

JohnDuncan:I'm lost. Do all cables sound the same or not?

Yes in sighted tests, no in blind tests........goes into hiding with lots of food in a cave...damn there is already someone in here......

 

[chebby]

aliEnRIK:Understanding where WHF stand on this will at least let everyone know how you grade cables and equipment when you review them

http://whathifi.com/howwetest/

The bit you want I quote here...

"All products are tested in comparison with rival products in the same price category. We have a warehouse full of kit, so even in a First Test a product will be reviewed in the context of other products in that sector of the market.

All review verdicts are agreed upon by the team as a whole - not an individual reviewer. Each product will be listened to and/or viewed by several members of the test team, who will then discuss the final verdict before it appears in the magazine or on the website. This avoids any individual bias creeping in."

 

[aliEnRIK]

chebby:
aliEnRIK:Understanding where WHF stand on this will at least let everyone know how you grade cables and equipment when you review them

http://whathifi.com/howwetest/

The bit you want I quote here...

"All products are tested in comparison with rival products in the same price category. We have a warehouse full of kit, so even in a First Test a product will be reviewed in the context of other products in that sector of the market.

All review verdicts are agreed upon by the team as a whole - not an individual reviewer. Each product will be listened to and/or viewed by several members of the test team, who will then discuss the final verdict before it appears in the magazine or on the website. This avoids any individual bias creeping in."

Entirely subjective though.

Doesnt really answer my actual question

 

[idc]

It does answer your question Rick, the testing is done by reviewers who come together and agree on on overall verdict. The testing is subjective.

 

[chebby]

aliEnRIK:Entirely subjective though.
Doesnt really answer my actual question

You wanted a description of how WHF test and they have a link to a section that tells you.

So you don't like subjective. You also don't like the objectivity of double blind testing.

However you have made posts - like the recent mains lead thread you started - where we are expected to believe (without question) of your 'tests' around a 'friend of a friends' place with only your entirely subjective account of the results. If we had doubts, then we were somehow deficient in our hearing!

(You actually said.. "Sceptics can post what they like, I can only imagine they have
incredibly bad hearing!")

So make your mind up.

Is a subjective account ok from you, but not from WHF?

 

[aliEnRIK]

chebby:aliEnRIK:Entirely subjective though.
Doesnt really answer my actual question

You wanted a description of how WHF test and they have a link to a section that tells you.

So you don't like subjective. You also don't like the objectivity of double blind testing.

However you have made posts - like the recent mains lead thread you started - where we are expected to believe (without question) of your 'tests' around a 'friend of a friends' place with only your entirely subjective account of the results. If we did not agree then we were somehow deficient in our hearing!

(You actually said.. "Sceptics can post what they like, I can only imagine they have
incredibly bad hearing!")

So make your mind up.

Is a subjective account ok from you, but not from WHF?

I think your confusing a lot of issues here

All I want to know is ~ do WHF agree that all cables and equipment 'should' be as transparent as possible? Or will they go ahead and give a 'brighter' cable for example 5 stars?

As for that test, I (we) could look at the light fitting and SEE it moving with the elite cable attached, unlike the others. Nothing subjective about that. And we wernt comparing sound quality (Well I suppose technically we were but regardless...), we were checking for 'bass boom'. One cable (the elite) made it boom like hell (And even shake the light fitting in the process) and the other didnt shake the fitting and sounded a lot tighter. It was posted purely to let people know mains cables CAN make a difference (Quite a big difference in this case)