Disappointed with MA Bronze 5... or was it my fault?

[QuestForThe13thNote]

So you've heard both speakers? With the same amplification in the same room, because if not, you are even worse then the people who see no shortcomings in there kit.
Because at least they have heard what they are preaching.

No one is claiming they are Magicos but the fact he got a smallish floorstander in a massive room with a budget AV is more the problem.

Oh and last few pairs of bronze 5 that sold on ebay all went for around £400. Seems like they hold there value well, remind me again, how many people have bid on those goodmans???

I've heard neither speakers.

I've heard, rather more expensive MA Silver speakers. I really didn't like them. If they were relatively poor sounding speakers, what chance do the much cheaper Bronzes have of sounding anything but relatively "bad"?

Someone whose judgement I trust knows those Goodmans speakers well, and recommends them (but as he says "don't pay over £120 for them. Magisters are better"). And for £85 - or whatever they sell for - they are a lot cheaper than new Bronze 5's.

Seems like a no brainer to me for anyone starting out in hi-fi. Start with a pair of massively under-rated speakers for £100. Use them and enjoy them for what they are. Use them as a benchmark for comparing against any other speakers that you fancy. Survival of the fittest. If you find something else you prefer, sell them for what you bought them for. Doesn't have to be the Goodmans. Could be any other properly engineered speaker for £100.

Please note that I did say that the Goodmans aren't the best sounding speakers ever made. If you think I'm behaving worse than people who never criticise any aspects of the sound of the equipment that they've bought, then that's up to you. So far you've not put together a coherent argument as to why you think that's the case. Please feel free to do so.

£400 for used MA Bronze 5 speakers on ebay? What like this pair that sold for £112 on 29th October 2017? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Monitor-Audio-Bronze-5-Speakers/263275921320?hash=item3d4c77bfa8:g:0lwAAOSwlepZ46Pi

The depreciation prospects for MA Bronze speakers looks as bad as I'd expect. Whilst in 10 years time the Goodmans will still be worth £100.

So you admit to giving advice without even hearing the speakers you are recommending??

Oh but someone you trust recommends them??

My argument was that you havn't even heard both sets and now you have proved me right and heres you still talking rubbish about a coherent argument .

Also nice try with the wrong link, those are the older bronze if you bothered to read you would see its the new bronze 5 we are talking about which have been selling for around £400.

D-

Must try better, see me after class.

Thats out of order Lindsay t was perfectly respectful in his reply and rationale, you weren’t. You don’t put someone down because he has a rationale you don’t agree with. See the moderator for detention!

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

But you see where are all the people who are quite happy to criticise me, but me defending someone else where this happens - not a soul to be seen. You see it’s total double standards. You ignore it and someone (Lindsayt) has been made to feel bad by someone calling him rubbish. Now Lindsayt May ignore it but it doesn’t exactly make it palatable for him or anyone else for that matter everytime people come here. Imagine what it would be like if you were at work and colleagues started acting like this. There would be tribunals etc. The idea that it’s condoned makes people have pent up anger until they flip like I have, and whose fault is that if it’s condoned.

THIS SITE NEEDS PROPER MODERATION!

 

[davedotco]

But you see where are all the people who are quite happy to criticise me, but me defending someone else where this happens - not a soul to be seen. You see it’s total double standards. You ignore it and someone (Lindsayt) has been made to feel bad by someone calling him rubbish. Now Lindsayt May ignore it but it doesn’t exactly make it palatable for him or anyone else for that matter everytime people come here. Imagine what it would be like if you were at work and colleagues started acting like this. There would be tribunals etc. The idea that it’s condoned makes people have pent up anger until they flip like I have, and whose fault is that if it’s condoned.

THIS SITE NEEDS PROPER MODERATION!

Take responsibility for yourself! I am quite sure most posters on here are perfectly capable of fighting their own corner should they wish too.

Anything that happens to you on here is your fault! This is an open forum and generally a very polite one, also, you will be surprised to hear, it is not compulsory.

If people upset you then don't read the posts and don't reply, if you can't do that, don't visit the forum.

Classic snowflake behaviour that seeks to blame others for your own failings. Your constant and repetitive 'thread crapping' posts are tedious in the extreme and destructive to the forum.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

No, you should call it out as being bad and something should be done about it. The fact you don’t shows you think it’s ok. That’s why you admit taking pleasure from making me feel bad, as in your other post. If everyone had to take responsibility for themselves we would not have very definite laws that protect people to this sort of poor feeling, and put downs. It would actually be harassment in other spheres. Imagine it at work.

This is a forum where most people are good but people like you should not spoil it for the rest of us. And frankly I don’t see why I should go elsewhere because I’m called a snowflake by people like you. I’m not failing, if you read the posts you will see I’m pulling someone else up. You should think it’s not great too.

Is it the fault of Lindsayt that he is made to be put down by someone who calls him rubbish with no provocation. Of course it isn’t.

Please can you tell me who you are.

 

[davedotco]

No, you should call it out as being bad and something should be done about it. The fact you don’t shows you think it’s ok. That’s why you admit taking pleasure from making me feel bad, as in your other post. If everyone had to take responsibility for themselves we would not have very definite laws that protect people to this sort of poor feeling, and put downs. It would actually be harassment in other spheres. Imagine it at work.

This is a forum where most people are good but people like you should not spoil it for the rest of us. And frankly I don’t see why I should go elsewhere because I’m called a snowflake by people like you. I’m not failing, if you read the posts you will see I’m pulling someone else up. You should think it’s not great too.

Is it the fault of Lindsayt that he is made to be put down by someone who calls him rubbish with no provocation. Of course it isn’t.

Please can you tell me who you are.

Who knows an attention seeking snowflake when he sees one. I consider it a duty and an honour to take the micky wherever possible.

You need to grow up and take control of your own life, the very idea of 'definite laws' designed to protect snowflakes is so funny that it would be imposible to take seriously if it wasn't actually happening.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

You revel in others misery and misfortune by saying you take pride in it. I don’t one iota.

Are you aware of the protection from harassment act (1997) and various other pieces of online legislation.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Quest, you will single-handed be responsible for locking every thread on this forum with your antics... you're like a dog with a damned bone! For goodness sake please step away from the keyboard and give it a rest. We've all had spats with various members from time to time on here, that's human nature, but we get over it, if we can't then we have to option to leave.

I implore you please stop what you are doing.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Sorry but this is an issue where we need to highlight the inadequacies of this guys thinking which is horrible, vindictive and just spiteful. If nobody moderates it, then I will be calling this guy out. In fact I’ll call everyone out. He should not take pleasure in taking the mickey out of people which he sees is his duty. If that’s his attitude I don’t think he should be on a forum, and mild mannered people like me (unless pushed and reach breaking point like now) should not have to put up with him. He has taken this attitude for some time and I’m not the only one affected I’m sure.

You need a dog with a bone if this carries on. I’d actually like to have a chat with him. Got a Skype number mr otco.

And no you don’t leave because of other people who do this putting down. They leave if they repetitively do this and make admissions they take pleasure from others misery!

 

[Joe Cox]

Quest is having a break.

Let's keep it civil, please.

 

[newlash09]

My first proper 5.0 HT system was a audiopro avanto 5.0 which I bought for 500 sterling in 2013.

The floor standers had 8 inch passive woofers, which dominated the whole audio spectrum. And when i could'nt sort out the over whelming bass with my limited knowledge, I turned to the forum here. The suggestions i got, improved the situation, but never mitigated the problem. Then someone suggested that quality floor standers start upwards of the 1000 pound mark. So I saved and got the first speaker just above the 1000 mark, the Qacoustics concept 40's. And they are really great speakers. So, even i forward the suggestion i received. Either go for a 1000 pound speaker new, or buy something better pre-loved within your budget.

Thats 5 speakers for £500 though, floorstanders would have been worth around £200 in that system, maybe less.

Unless you gone through numerous sets of £500 floorstanders you can not, hand on heart, say that only floorstanders at a grand are worth it, no?

I readily admit that i have'nt heard anything between the 200 sterling and 1000 sterling mark. You have a point there. My apologies

 

[hybridauth_Google_113430149168470336321]

Sorry but this is an issue where we need to highlight the inadequacies of this guys thinking which is horrible, vindictive and just spiteful. If nobody moderates it, then I will be calling this guy out. In fact I’ll call everyone out. He should not take pleasure in taking the mickey out of people which he sees is his duty. If that’s his attitude I don’t think he should be on a forum, and mild mannered people like me (unless pushed and reach breaking point like now) should not have to put up with him. He has taken this attitude for some time and I’m not the only one affected I’m sure.

You need a dog with a bone if this carries on. I’d actually like to have a chat with him. Got a Skype number mr otco.

And no you don’t leave because of other people who do this putting down. They leave if they repetitively do this and make admissions they take pleasure from others misery!

Has this gentleman mental health issues?

 

[rainsoothe]

Quest is having a break.

Let's keep it civil, please.

thank you!!

 

[Oldskool1976]

If I've offended anyone then i'll hold up my hand and apologise but I'm as non PC as it gets. Also the D- was meant as a joke, not sure why certain people are so easily offended? I guess my armour was forged growing up in 80's London, brought up on a diet of being mugged and getting chased by those loveable skinheads, complete with green bomber jackets.( I wouldn't have a problem now but kinda hard to defend yourself as a kid). I find weight training helps me deal with life/hardships ec.....

Healthy body = Healthy mind!!

@Newlash: No need to apologise bro, you're one of the coolest on this forum, excluding my mancrush on Vlad!!

@dave/insider: THanks for the feedback on Hi-fi dealers, very instresting.

@Quest: You may not think it now, but I think a break from here will help you considerably.

 

[lindsayt]

So you admit to giving advice without even hearing the speakers you are recommending??

Oh but someone you trust recommends them??

My argument was that you havn't even heard both sets and now you have proved me right and heres you still talking rubbish about a coherent argument .

Also nice try with the wrong link, those are the older bronze if you bothered to read you would see its the new bronze 5 we are talking about which have been selling for around £400.

D-

Must try better, see me after class.

Here's my UK ebay search for "Bronze 5" completed listings:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Sound-Vision/293/i.html?_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=HD75LU&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&_nkw=bronze+5&_sop=16

The nearest listing I can see to used Bronze 5's for £400 is the just over 12 months old pair for £374.99. The only examples I can see above this price are "new" or "new other". Plus a 2 month old pair that sold for £410.

I've not seen any listings for 5 year old or 10 year old latest model Bronze 5's. Have you? If so please provide links so that we can look at the price and judge their depreciation accordingly.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the latest Bronze 5 model will be better from a depreciation viewpoint than older model? On the basis of the opening post of this thread it appears likely that the latest model will depreciate at about the same rate as the older model. It also seems likely that in 5 to 10 years time, the latest model will no longer be the latest model and that it will have been replaced by a new latest model. And that it's highly realistic to expect an MA Bronze 5 bought new today to be worth £112 in 10 years time.

I admit to criticising near bottom of the range MA speakers on the basis that the middle of the range ones I heard sounded relatively poor. Do you have a problem with that Oldskool? If so, why?

I admit that I suggested the purchase of a pair of £85 (bid price at the time) speakers that I have never heard. £85. Not £8500. Not £850. £85 to put them into context. I did, up front say that they're not the best speakers ever made. Does it matter if my suggestion was based on me trusting the advice of an associate? As long as my advice was sound? As long as I wasn't over-selling the speakers in question?

If it does matter to you, please explain why.

You have selectively quoted your own statement when you said "My argument was that you havn't even heard both sets".

The bit that I'd like you to justify with a coherent argument is the bit that I've highlighted in bold:

"So you've heard both speakers? With the same amplification in the same room, because if not, you are even worse then the people who see no shortcomings in there kit. Because at least they have heard what they are preaching."

Your line of argument was an ad hominem insult, for which Quest quite rightly called you out on. I agree with what he's said on the matter in this thread.

 

[Oldskool1976]

So you admit to giving advice without even hearing the speakers you are recommending??

Oh but someone you trust recommends them??

My argument was that you havn't even heard both sets and now you have proved me right and heres you still talking rubbish about a coherent argument .

Also nice try with the wrong link, those are the older bronze if you bothered to read you would see its the new bronze 5 we are talking about which have been selling for around £400.

D-

Must try better, see me after class.

Here's my UK ebay search for "Bronze 5" completed listings:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Sound-Vision/293/i.html?_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_ftrt=901&_ftrv=1&_sabdlo=&_sabdhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=HD75LU&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&_nkw=bronze+5&_sop=16

The nearest listing I can see to used Bronze 5's for £400 is the just over 12 months old pair for £374.99. The only examples I can see above this price are "new" or "new other". Plus a 2 month old pair that sold for £410.

I've not seen any listings for 5 year old or 10 year old latest model Bronze 5's. Have you? If so please provide links so that we can look at the price and judge their depreciation accordingly.

Yeah sure bro, I'll just grab a time machine....

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the latest Bronze 5 model will be better from a depreciation viewpoint than older model? On the basis of the opening post of this thread it appears likely that the latest model will depreciate at about the same rate as the older model. It also seems likely that in 5 to 10 years time, the latest model will no longer be the latest model and that it will have been replaced by a new latest model. And that it's highly realistic to expect an MA Bronze 5 bought new today to be worth £112 in 10 years time.

Well of course a £500 pair of speakers are generally gonna depreciate over 10 years but NOT if you sell them within a few months which is what most normal people will do if not satisfied. Also the goodmans have already hit rock bottom, doubt they can get depreciate any further tbh. But you seemed to have missed the point, which is, that if he sells them soonish he won't lose much and if he does keep them for 10 years then £50 a year seems like a bargin to me.

I admit to criticising near bottom of the range MA speakers on the basis that the middle of the range ones I heard sounded relatively poor. Do you have a problem with that Oldskool? If so, why?

Because you simply havn't heard them, regardless of disliking the midrange speakers, oh and they sound poor relative to what..?

I admit that I suggested the purchase of a pair of £85 (bid price at the time) speakers that I have never heard. £85. Not £8500. Not £850. £85 to put them into context. I did, up front say that they're not the best speakers ever made. Does it matter if my suggestion was based on me trusting the advice of an associate? As long as my advice was sound? As long as I wasn't over-selling the speakers in question?

If it does matter to you, please explain why.

You're advising someone to buy a set of ebay speakers that you admitted to not being the best, against a set of speakers you've never heard cause your mate said so??
How do you know your associate advice is sound..?
Do you and your buddy agree with every set-up you listen to..??
Lettuce be cereal, thats poor advice and if you can't even see this then you need to be more honest with yourself.

You have selectively quoted your own statement when you said "My argument was that you havn't even heard both sets".

The bit that I'd like you to justify with a coherent argument is the bit that I've highlighted in bold:

"So you've heard both speakers? With the same amplification in the same room, because if not, you are even worse then the people who see no shortcomings in there kit. Because at least they have heard what they are preaching."

Your line of argument was an ad hominem insult, for which Quest quite rightly called you out on. I agree with what he's said on the matter in this thread.

I've quoted the truth and stand by it, you've not heard speakers you are recommending!! (Is any of this getting through??)
I also stand by my comment, you can't be knocking people who fail to see shortcomings in their own kit while denouncing equipment you've never heard.
As for agreeing with Quest?
Well seeing as hes gone full ****** thats hardly something worth bragging about.

 

[lindsayt]

Oldskool, your comment about Quest going "full ******" is insulting ad hominem. I don't like your posting style.

I trust the advice of my associate because so far at every bake-off we've attended we've agreed on the nature of the sonic differences between every component. He usually detects and is able to articulate the differences quicker than me, which is fair enough as he has far more experience in audio equipment than I do. He also has a track record of finding, and recommending relatively good hi-fi for very low budgets.

I'm prepared to stick my neck out on the basis of his recommendations. In this thread, you are not just drawing on my personal expeerience, you are drawing on his too. I'm trying my best to offer the OP the best advice I can by including recommendations from people whose judgement on hi-fi I trust. You see that as a bad thing for some reason. I think you have some kind of grudge against me. Maybe I've criticised the sound of your speakers at some point on this forum? And you've taken that personally? So you've decided to stick the knife into me. Or maybe you're the sort of person that never criticises the sound of your components, and you've taken my comments on this personally?

Let me put it this way. In a bake-off between MA Bronze 5's and Goodmans Magnums in Xicu's room, I'm confident the Goodmans would win. I'd be prepared to bet the £100 value of the Magnums that they'd win. Feel free to put my advice to the test.

Thank-you for finally agreeing with me on the depreciation thing. Anyone selling the Goodmans 2 days, 2 months, 2 years, 10 years adter buying them will lose nothing. Anyone buying the MA's new is likely to lose a bit after 2 days, a bit more over 2 years and £400 over 10 years. That's a key advantage to a whole host of used speakers, including the Magnums.

The MA Silvers sounded relatively poor compared to listening to a live grand piano. Their midrange and treble had less clarity and was less dynamically wide open than the EV Sentry's I bought for £415. Their bass is less tight, textured and toe-tapping than the Bozak Symphonies I bought for £500. The MA Silvers had no sonic area in which they were better than either of those speakers. They had no magic to them. Overall, they sound relatively crude and boring to listen to.

Oldskool, in your opinion, what are the chances that the Bronzes sound better than the Silvers? In my opinion there's a 5% chance the Bronzes will sound better.

Modern slimline ported ultra budget speakers, as a breed, just don't sound good - based on my personal experience of the ones that I've heard. Are you seriously stating that the MA Bronzes are somehow a golden exception to this rule?

Acoustic suspension speakers with reasonable sized and quality drivers are generally OK sounding speakers - based on my personal experience of this breed. Are you seriously stating that the Magnums are an exception to this rule?

I've never heard a Crosley turntable. I'd be prepared to stick my neck out and state that it will sound relatively crude, flat and boring when compared to a Sony PS 8750 (I've heard neither). According to your line of argument, I'd be out of order for expressing this opinion?!

 

[Oldskool1976]

Oldskool, your comment about Quest going "full ******" is insulting ad hominem.

The guy has admitted to being regularly institutionalized, he's started a thread on a hi-fi forum about feeling suicidal, has threatened to involve the police on a freaking hi-fi forum of all places and has ranted more then Rab C Nesbitt on Tren! If you don't think this is going full ****** then feel free to tell me what your version of full ****** is?

I don't like your posting style.

Thats funny because I don't like it when people bash kit they've never heard while recommending kit they also have never heard.
Guess we got something in common, no?

I trust the advice of my associate because so far at every bake-off we've attended we've agreed on the nature of the sonic differences between every component. He usually detects and is able to articulate the differences quicker than me, which is fair enough as he has far more experience in audio equipment than I do. He also has a track record of finding, and recommending relatively good hi-fi for very low budgets.

Maybe his idea of what sounds good is different to OP, its plain to see you and your buddy just have the same taste in sound. Either way I would not be taking your buddys word as gospel especially since sound is very subjective. Also what do you mean about your palbeing able to articulate the differences? We talking soundstage,bass,mid, highs..?

I'm prepared to stick my neck out on the basis of his recommendations. In this thread, you are not just drawing on my personal expeerience, you are drawing on his too. I'm trying my best to offer the OP the best advice I can by including recommendations from people whose judgement on hi-fi I trust. You see that as a bad thing for some reason. I think you have some kind of grudge against me. Maybe I've criticised the sound of your speakers at some point on this forum? And you've taken that personally? So you've decided to stick the knife into me. Or maybe you're the sort of person that never criticises the sound of your components, and you've taken my comments on this personally?

Because I've disagreed with you I've now got a grudge and am trying to stick a knife in your back??

Now look whos taking things personally!!

If you can provide soild evidence of the following please feel free to, but my guess is you can't, because its all in your imagination.

But, if you truly feel this way then may I suggest investing in a stab proof vest and a bodyguard in preparation for the next time someone disagrees with you.

The fact is, I've disagreed with you and now "victim mode" has been engaged is worrying .I have no problem in pointing out the shortfalls in my kit, its a budget set up for petes sake.

Let me put it this way. In a bake-off between MA Bronze 5's and Goodmans Magnums in Xicu's room, I'm confident the Goodmans would win. I'd be prepared to bet the £100 value of the Magnums that they'd win. Feel free to put my advice to the test.

By the power of greyskull, a hundred nicker you say, who judging?
Because if its you and your buddy I think I'll take a rain check.

Thank-you for finally agreeing with me on the depreciation thing. Anyone selling the Goodmans 2 days, 2 months, 2 years, 10 years adter buying them will lose nothing. Anyone buying the MA's new is likely to lose a bit after 2 days, a bit more over 2 years and £400 over 10 years. That's a key advantage to a whole host of used speakers, including the Magnums.

Did you even bother to read what I posted?
You were arguing on the resell value of the MA, I just proved to you that as long as they are not old, he/she will not lose much money on them. He/she will also have a guarantee and, should they wish could trade up/sell early on.

Would any dealer take a pair of ancient goodmans? Thats providing they were still running ten years down the line and I could be wrong, they might be worth nowt in ten years.
Besides the Goodmans look like something Captain Caveman did at his first ever woodwork lesson.

The MA Silvers sounded relatively poor compared to listening to a live grand piano. Their midrange and treble had less clarity and was less dynamically wide open than the EV Sentry's I bought for £415. Their bass is less tight, textured and toe-tapping than the Bozak Symphonies I bought for £500. The MA Silvers had no sonic area in which they were better than either of those speakers. They had no magic to them. Overall, they sound relatively crude and boring to listen to.

Fair enough at least you've heard this particular speaker you're bashing but at the end of the day thats just your opinion, which I have no problem with.
The fact is I've lost count of the amount of people who love the MA sound and I'm sure there are people out there who feel the sameabout the Sentrys.
Which model EV Sentrys do you own? (Please tell me you're not comparing slim floorstanders to those freaking boat anchors!)

Oldskool, in your opinion, what are the chances that the Bronzes sound better than the Silvers? In my opinion there's a 5% chance the Bronzes will sound better.

So you agree there is a chance? For sure the majority would disagree, but I personally have no idea if the bronze would work better in my room so I would'nt comment or make the assumption.

Modern slimline ported ultra budget speakers, as a breed, just don't sound good - based on my personal experience of the ones that I've heard. Are you seriously stating that the MA Bronzes are somehow a golden exception to this rule?

Have you listened to all sub £500 slimline ported speakers?

Oh and in what world is £500 ultra budget?

Acoustic suspension speakers with reasonable sized and quality drivers are generally OK sounding speakers - based on my personal experience of this breed. Are you seriously stating that the Magnums are an exception to this rule?

Maybe they are, I have no idea, but I bet your hi-fi guru buddy could help you out.

I've never heard a Crosley turntable. I'd be prepared to stick my neck out and state that it will sound relatively crude, flat and boring when compared to a Sony PS 8750 (I've heard neither). According to your line of argument, I'd be out of order for expressing this opinion?!

Now you're just acting ridiculous, because you are comparing apples to oranges just to try justifly your point. Firstly in what universe is acheap suitcase turntable being credited as Hi-Fi because it isn't this one. Then you're putting it up against a turntable, that 40 years later,commands a price tag of 2k!! It might be a beauty, but the Sony's lid cost more then the Crosley ffs.

I have no problem with you expressing your opinions, in fact.

"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It",

But I find your lack of listening disturbing.....