Digital Interconnects

[Thompsonuxb]

So...it comes back to personal experiment, listening. Seeing for yourself rather than believing manufacturers. It's the best anyone can do

Sorry, that just isn't true. You don't have to believe manufacturers nor try and rely on your own (unreliable) ears / brain. You can consider proper scientific research, such as that linked to by idc.

So if you can hear differences between cables ....what does it mean?

your ears are unreliable??...seriously...are you being serious

I'm not especially militant about digital cables / jitter (much less than others who've posted on this thread, for example) but am I being serious? Yes, yes I am being serious. Seriously.

I conduct no other part of my life on the basis of belief and subjectivism, I don't see why I would conduct this part on that basis. If you say you can hear a difference, feel free to carry out an ABX test to show us that that is genuinely the case. Or indeed even link to one. Until then, yes I suspect the combination of your ears and your brain is unreliable.

seriously you are being serious......I mean, seriously?

I would challenge you to an ABX test (is that a blind test?).

I would meet you in any hifi demo room sit you down go through some interconnects and watch your subjectivism and basis of belief die of embarressment or at least prove to you you're going deaf... I live in birmingham/england.

 

[Anonymous]

I listened to two loaves of bread today, one brown and one white, and the brown one sounded better, more organic...

Tell me it didn't but i know that it did..

 

[BenLaw]

Digital interconnects make more difference than anolog by the nature of the digital signal. Its more precise and less splashy at the top end

I don't really know what that means, but can you provide a link in support?

 

[CnoEvil]

I listened to two loaves of bread today, one brown and one white, and the brown one sounded better, more organic...

Tell me it didn't but i know that it did..

...and let me guess, you stirred the dough with that great big spoon of yours.

 

[BenLaw]

seriously you are being serious......I mean, seriously?

Strangely enough, I am still being serious. Do you need to check, or are you just trying to be provocative?

I would challenge you to an ABX test (is that a blind test?).

Google is your friend. Plenty of interminable threads here about it.

I would meet you in any hifi demo room sit you down go through some interconnects and watch your subjectivism and basis of belief die of embarressment or at least prove to you you're going deaf... I live in birmingham/england.

So if I could tell the difference, you'd be right. But if I couldn't tell the difference you'd still be right and I'd be deaf. Not much in it for me is there?

 

[visionary]

seriously you are being serious......I mean, seriously?

Strangely enough, I am still being serious. Do you need to check, or are you just trying to be provocative?

I would challenge you to an ABX test (is that a blind test?).

Google is your friend. Plenty of interminable threads here about it.

I would meet you in any hifi demo room sit you down go through some interconnects and watch your subjectivism and basis of belief die of embarressment or at least prove to you you're going deaf... I live in birmingham/england.

So if I could tell the difference, you'd be right. But if I couldn't tell the difference you'd still be right and I'd be deaf. Not much in it for me is there?

Aww c'mon, Ben! You'd get a trip to Birmingham

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Digital interconnects make more difference than anolog by the nature of the digital signal. Its more precise and less splashy at the top end

I don't really know what that means, but can you provide a link in support?

Provide a link, what for......lol.

If you have access to a digital reciever connect your CD player to it directly with digital/optical coax, compare them to Anolog interconnects and agianst each other and then hand on heart report back and tell the truth......provide a link......indeed.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

seriously you are being serious......I mean, seriously?

Strangely enough, I am still being serious. Do you need to check, or are you just trying to be provocative?

I would challenge you to an ABX test (is that a blind test?).

Google is your friend. Plenty of interminable threads here about it.

I would meet you in any hifi demo room sit you down go through some interconnects and watch your subjectivism and basis of belief die of embarressment or at least prove to you you're going deaf... I live in birmingham/england.

So if I could tell the difference, you'd be right. But if I couldn't tell the difference you'd still be right and I'd be deaf. Not much in it for me is there?

Bring a third party a couple of friends or family members, we could involve the shop assistants on duty.

 

[gregvet]

So if I could tell the difference, you'd be right. But if I couldn't tell the difference you'd still be right and I'd be deaf. Not much in it for me is there?

What about if you could demonstrate that he couldn't tell any difference either? Then you would have proved your point and converted another one to your way of thinking. That seems to be your intention anyway (from what I can see from your contribution to this and lots of other threads on this forum).

Sorry if that seems confrontational, I am just sick of seeing people insisting that any information on the web proves or disproves anything. It doesn't. There is so much disinformation online, and I am not going to believe what I read online over what I have experienced myself.

 

[BenLaw]

So if I could tell the difference, you'd be right. But if I couldn't tell the difference you'd still be right and I'd be deaf. Not much in it for me is there?

Aww c'mon, Ben! You'd get a trip to Birmingham

I've been before... I also have a funny feeling Thompsonuxb and I might not get on :wall:

 

[Anonymous]

I listened to two loaves of bread today, one brown and one white, and the brown one sounded better, more organic...

Tell me it didn't but i know that it did..

...and let me guess, you stirred the dough with that great big spoon of yours.

Hi Cno, no stirring here i promise, just some humerous interjection.

Another way i could put it is..

I heard some music while a loaf of white bread was in the room, and then when a loaf of brown bread was in the room in its place, and the brown bread made the sound better.

Saying a digital cable caused a similar change in sound is the same thing, yet many believe they do.

Strange but true

 

[BenLaw]

What about if you could demonstrate that he couldn't tell any difference either? Then you would have proved your point and converted another one to your way of thinking. That seems to be your intention anyway (from what I can see from your contribution to this and lots of other threads on this forum).

Sorry if that seems confrontational, I am just sick of seeing people insisting that any information on the web proves or disproves anything. It doesn't. There is so much disinformation online, and I am not going to believe what I read online over what I have experienced myself.

Well it is confrontational, so I wouldn't bother apologising. Actually, I try to keep out of cable debates. I have my own views but don't try to force them on others, it's their money and they can spend it how they like. If people write nonsense tho I do sometimes respond.

Your 'challenge' of conversion is only designed to be provocative, but for those reasons I would decline it even it were for real.

Obviously the net is full of disinformation. However, you go much too far to say 'nothing on the web proves anything'. Did you read idc's link? There have been frequent invitations (I think this is the first time by me) to link to a positive digital cable ABX test. AFAIK there aren't any, not even dodgy ones, not even ones that might be considered disinformation. I suggest there's a reason for that. But your mind won't be changed and I don't try to change it.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Ben- the suction factor is stronger than the chill factor at the moment.You wouldn't do this in court ,so don't do it here,because it doesn't work online.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Cno, no stirring here i promise, just some humerous interjection.

Another way i could put it is..

I heard some music while a loaf of white bread was in the room, and then when a loaf of brown bread was in the room in its place, and the brown bread made the sound better.

Saying a digital cable caused a similar change in sound is the same thing, yet many believe they do.

Strange but true

I disagree. If the brown loaf was put in the first point of reflection, or in a corner to act like a bass trap, it could improve the sound! :shifty:

 

[BenLaw]

Ben- the suction factor is stronger than the chill factor at the moment.You wouldn't do this in court ,so don't do it here,because it doesn't work online.

RGD, I all too often feel disappointed in myself for not quite understanding one of your posts, and unfortunately this is one of those occasions :? Suction factor and chill factor?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

You are allowing yourself to get sucked into discussions which have no fruitful outcome is my point. But hey- it's your time.

 

[Alec]

I went to Birmingham once, and all I got was some lousy speakers.

 

[busb]

As entertaining as this thread is, most of you are on the wrong track. If you want to make a serious difference to your listening experience, you need these:

http://www.stereotimes.com/accZiplex112811.shtml

They also appear to come is a rather nice box.

 

[paradiziac]

So...it comes back to personal experiment, listening. Seeing for yourself rather than believing manufacturers. It's the best anyone can do

Sorry, that just isn't true. You don't have to believe manufacturers nor try and rely on your own (unreliable) ears / brain. You can consider proper scientific research, such as that linked to by idc.

Sorry, yes I should have said IF you've got the appropriate technical background knowledge, you might consider reading "proper scientific research", though even so, I doubt that reading a paper is going to prove more informative than listening.

Personally, I've got no basis on which to make an informed judgement of the linked paper.

Interpreting a scientific paper requires specialized subject knowledge. Including, a knowledge of all the published literature either supporting or discounting the findings of the paper under consideration. The reputation of the journal in which the paper is published and the number of times the paper is cited by other researchers all lends it credibility (or otherwise) and I have no idea about these.

I do note that it contains only 8 references, 7 of which are papers by at least one of the authors of this one. I'm a natural sceptic, and to me, that's not a healthy starting point for "proper research". It's also 7 years old--a long time in computer audio. What's currently happening in this field? Have other studies reached the same conclusions? Do enlighten me please, folks!

Too bad they didn't list the equipment used, people could then assemble the same gear and then go feed it a cheap jittery DVD player v hi-end source. That would at least verify/disprove that the effect of the artificially induced jitter used in the study was actually comparable to using an inferior source in the real world.

P.S Going back to the subject of digital cables, in IDC's paper in paragraph 1. of the introduction it refers to time jitter being affected by cable length...so err...make sure you choose the right length!

EDIT, oops I forgot that proper scientific research has proved that jitter is inaudible! :doh: so scrub that, it doesn't matter, use a coat hanger if that floats yer boat!

 

[paradiziac]

As entertaining as this thread is, most of you are on the wrong track. If you want to make a serious difference to your listening experience, you need these:

http://www.stereotimes.com/accZiplex112811.shtml

They also appear to come is a rather nice box.

That's it, bring on the proper hardcore audiophoolery! Cables is kid's stuff! Now who's ABX-ed a box of those beauties?

 

[BenLaw]

You are allowing yourself to get sucked into discussions which have no fruitful outcome is my point. But hey- it's your time.

Ah, yes. As ever, you're quite right

I've had far too good an evening listening to great new music and took my eye off the ball From tonight may I recommend: Dark So Gold by The Pines, Gracious Tide, Take Me Home by Lanterns on the Lake and Blues Funeral by Mark Lanegan Band. Sublime

 

[chebby]

Why do you guys do this, week in, week out, over and over and over again?

No-one is ever going to win.

Tomorrow, or the next day, someone is going to start another "Which digital thingummy should I buy?" thread, and you'll all be off again just as if it was the first ever "Which digital thingummy should I buy" thread ever posted on the internet.

You'll all post the same links and the same arguments.

Look up Sisyphus* or watch Groundhog Day.

*Although in this case, I think even Sisyphus would have given up and let the b####y boulder roll back over him by now!

 

[Alec]

Look up Sisyphus

Jack The Ripper had that, or so I read once.

 

[Ambrose]

:rofl:

 

[Ambrose]

The last reply was meant to be in response to Ooh and the loaf of bread gag :beer:

On a more serious note, all I wanted was some opinions where people had tried different coax cables in a decent hifi setup and if they noticed any change for better or worse............ Not another debate about therories which cannot be proven.

For what it is worth, I am ordering a Mark Grant coax on 30 day trial as I found the RCA phono to be very good, in fact for the money a downright bargain.

The coax is also on sale for today as well so only £22.50. If I like more than my Codac then I'll keep, else it'll go back.

Will report findings next week... not that anyone will believe me but completes the circle!

Ambrose