Diasappointed with Naim Supernait and Spendor A5 combination

[Sospri]

Has the OP considered a lesser system to suit his muscal taste, after all you do not hear many soaring strings in reggae music.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but my system sounds terrible on poorly mastered/ recorded music.

Perhaps something less sophisticated..............

 

[NHL]

What does WHF say? Have only seen rave reviews for the SN, regardless of magazine.

 

[Dennis Michos]

I admit I am ignorant about Hi Fi and acoustics but I don't understand when you guys say that this or that 2000 pounds amp sounds bright/harsh. Is the manufacturer who made it sound bright/harsh? Then it is a bad design. Is there anyone who wants to have a bright or harsh amp? According to me amplifiers should be as transparent as possible. Not adding anything. Probably this is a bit oversimplified but from a 2000 pounds amply I expect transparent sound and faithful to the source. For years I am reading that Cyrus amps are bright but they won whatever awards available on earth. What is the truth at the end? A speaker which sounds good with only 2 amplifiers is a bad speaker to me (but as I said I am ignorant). Of course if you have a bad designed amp your speakers will not sound great even if they are great but then you change your amply because it is not good enough.

 

[jaxwired]

And as for mediocre sound, if it's indistinguishable from better than mediocre in a blind test, what is everyone spending a whole lot of extra cash for?

It's not indistinguishable in your own home with your own music as the vast majority of hifi fans that experiment with amplifier upgrades are well aware.

People that read about these A/B amp tests often use them as an excuse to ignore a critical component of good sound. They are cheating themselves of great sound.

If audiophiles are self deluded, you'd think more of us would realize it eventually. But I never hear about audiophiles, reviewers, industry insiders, or anybody waking up from this delusional state and "realizing" that all amps actually do sound the same. Nope, apparently the self delusion is permanent. Once you have it, you continue to believe this for decades until you die.

 

[chebby]

How about a Nait XS and Rega DAC or Naim SuperUniti? (With your existing CD player.)

Or try speakers like the easier to drive Spendor SP2/3R2s. I was privileged to hear these once with Bryston amps when our local dealer first took on both brands at around the same time. (The Spendors had gone to the wrong branch so I was lucky to hear them as they had to be sent away the next day!)

They are on my 'lottery list' along with a big class A Luxman (or Accuphase) amp 🙂

 

[rdmaidment]

When I saw the title I was expecting a report that the system was a bit dull or overblown in the bass, not harsh. The A5's can easily overdo the bass and become flabby and boom but the mid range and treble is delightful and very smooth.

I have A5's in an all Naim system (NDX Streamer, 282/hicap/200). I initially used them with a 202/200 combination which isn't far off the Supernait in ability but has a reputation of being harder sounding than the Supernait.

With that combination and a variety of sources at no time have the Spendors sounded harsh, in fact one area for improvement was attack and bite, although a recent change in preamp to the 282 pretty much rectified that.

I think you need to look beyond the amp/speakers for an explanation. Trying a different source would be a good idea but I would also ensure that you are using Naim speaker cable which at the price is good value and you need to go a long way to better it with Naim equipment. Other things to look at are the positioning of the speakers and the room, is it a lively room and could some soft furnishings or a rug help?

Also, make sure you leave the amp on all the time, Naim gear needs to be left on to perform at its best.

Good luck

Richard

 

[Anonymous]

@Overdose en Jaxwired: Let me be clear: I did not say that i believe that all amplifiers sound the same, I was just reffering on an occasion wich i now regret considering what kind of reactions/emotions it gave. Also I don't believe that i'll need a € 1500 to be spend on a Hicap to fix my problems. And to fix the contradictions-issue: my opening post is very clear, may be you must read it again. :read:

@rdraidment: the bass control is near perfect for me. One of the things I do like with this combination. I also leave the amp on all the time and positioning of the speakers is at his best given my room "circumstances". It is indeed a lively room and I more and more begin to believe that this is, at least a part, of the problem.

This evening ik have arranged that I can try a CD5X. Let's see what this brings! :?

 

[westerniser]

I had the same combo last year (SN + A5) with a mac into the SN Dac.

I found the sound of the A5 the absolute opposite to the problem described here. The A5 have a very warm, natural sound but I found them lacking in detail and airy treble. They were so smooth, they sounded like they were a vintage speaker. I since added Proac and Harbeth into the mix and ended up with a much more balanced sound. Opted for Harbeth, M30 was the most refined to me, without being too huge. P3esr is also a great speaker too, I have owned both.

 

[NHL]

Auditioned Supernait this weekend:

+

bass did not sound digital

treble was enjoyable

-

weak midband

 

[Anonymous]

Listening audition upcoming week: SN with and without Hicap combined with Harbeth 30.1. Let's see what this brings.

 

[audiokid]

I once owned a Supernait with Spendor A5. I found them quite the opposite, they were bassy and warm with a nice mid. Trouble was, I could never hear enough detail in the upper frequencies.

I then tried some Harbeth which added some more resolution and had a cleaner bass, so I sold on the Spendors.

The Supernait is one of the smoothest amps I have heard. I moved on for more attack, so I'm surprised that it sounds harsh with smooth Spendor speakers. I can only second a comment earlier about harsh recordings, or that something is broken.

 

[Phileas]

It's not indistinguishable in your own home with your own music as the vast majority of hifi fans that experiment with amplifier upgrades are well aware.

Have you ever read this?

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Flying%20Blind.pdf

 

[audiokid]

Interesting article, and that summarises how so many people listen.

Many people listen for the noises that are being made: treble extension, bass etc, in a similar way to the animals ears pricking when when a noise is made... a can opener, the writer described.

But music is a different matter. It takes time to stop analysing the sounds and fall for the music being played, and only when I have lived with a new set of speakers at home for a week I can decide if they're right.

I tried Shahinian Arcs, and these are speakers that just became so addictive over time, whereas I have had some Proacs for 5 minutes and was initially blown away but the adrenalin faded and they became irritating over longer periods.

 

[audiokid]

Duplicate

 

[CnoEvil]

Interesting article, and that summarises how so many people listen.

Many people listen for the noises that are being made: treble extension, bass etc, in a similar way to the animals ears pricking when when a noise is made... a can opener, the writer described.

But music is a different matter. It takes time to stop analysing the sounds and fall for the music being played, and only when I have lived with a new set of speakers at home for a week I can decide if they're right.

I tried Shahinian Arcs, and these are speakers that just became so addictive over time, whereas I have had some Proacs for 5 minutes and was initially blown away but the adrenalin faded and they became irritating over longer periods.

I find your thoughts insightful and match my own. The problem comes when you come on here and try to describe what you've heard, in a way that's meaningful to others.....In my case, that's where I have to "disassemble" the whole for it to make sense to others, and differentiate it from other pieces of kit.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not indistinguishable in your own home with your own music as the vast majority of hifi fans that experiment with amplifier upgrades are well aware.

Have you ever read this?

http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Flying%20Blind.pdf

fascinating, so doing week long home auditions are a waste of time? I agree with the active listening stuff, this is when I enjoy my hifi most. Eyes closed, feet up and concentrating on the sound.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi there LionofJudah. I have only just come across this post and appreciate it has been running for a while so maybe you sorted out. For what its worth my system experience will hopefully give you some comfort.

I am running a Naim HDX into Supernait ( Chord Chameleon Plus interconnects) Spendor A5's (Chord Rumour 2 Speaker cable)

I use the HDX DAC not the Supernait.

The sound is very balanced to my ears as you say good amounts of bass but not overdone. Vocals (particularly female vocals) are superb its one of the things the Spendor A5 does welll (but SE5 was even better).

The supernait is very detailed and pretty unforgiving of poor recordings and some mixes can sound 'bright' but I would not say harsh. (An arcam FMJ amp would be more forgiving and generally warmer for some recordings.

My HDX is with naim for upgrade and I'm using my old ARCAM FMJ CD36 at the front end and sounding very good indeed.

I just played Bob M's Survival Album and the sound is very detailed not what I would call warm but thats the way much of the the Wailers material is recorded. 'Legend' is overall a smoother album.

My room is far from ideal being 6m x 3.8 m with the spendors having to be placed either side of the chimney breast on 3.8 m wall and officially too close to to back wall and the side is the chimney breast , (also only 1.6 m apart!) but it works fine. the room is carpeted and has soft furniture to soak up the sound.

When the HDX is returned I will be upgrading with a HI-CAP and HI-LINE but from auditioning this won't add warmth to the sound but more details and tightened bass so in your case would not go there. Hope this helps.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks too-old-to-rock!

I've not sorten things out completely but in the meantime became aware that the combination of the SN, the room and the lot of poor recordings I have is most likeley the problem. However, you say that the SN is not harsh, in my case/hearing it is. Specifcly the "s" and "f". Very strange if you notice that the Spendors are particurly good in that area.

Listened to the combi Harbeth 301. icw the SN with Hicap had lots more detail and sounded not harsh at all with the same recordings and nearly the same room circumstances. Very very strange.

 

[CnoEvil]

Very very strange.

Given the very personal and subjective nature of taste, it doesn't surprise me in the least. We all hear, like and describe what we hear, differently.

 

[plastic penguin]

Personally I don't like Spendor/Naim combo. The Spendors are fairly dark sounding, while the Naim CAN be fussy with speaker partners. The best Naim combo I've ever heard is with Dynaudio speakers and PMC.

Concur with Cno, we all hear something different.

 

[Anonymous]

Personally I don't like Spendor/Naim combo. The Spendors are fairly dark sounding, while the Naim CAN be fussy with speaker partners. The best Naim combo I've ever heard is with Dynaudio speakers and PMC.

Concur with Cno, we all hear something different.

The Spendors are more then ok for me. Have had the RS6 before, I can see there strenghts but in my living room they sounded horrible. With Marantz amplifaction.

 

[malthus80]

hi there. Have you tried one of Naims power supplies on the SN. I know on my system that it made the treble much sweeter. Maybe you could try some dynaudios or proacs as they may be more suited to the SN. It does sound like it could be the amp but worth trying. Hope you sort it.

Regards

 

[Anonymous]

Not strange at all..... Everyone hears things differently and no 2 rooms will sound the same. The important thing is to find what works for you nothing else matters. My local dealers recomend the Neat motive 1's with Supernait. Many on the Naim forum recommend Sonus Faber. In the end you demo the speakers with your cd's preferably on your own system and find what suits you and from my experience it doesnt always mean going for more expensive kit - often the more reasonably priced stuff gives the sound your looking for. If the Harbeth 30.1's work for you thats all that matters but you have to demo them in your room and of course stand will make a difference to their sound. Your dealer should also help with easy/simple fixes like allowing you to demo different speaker cables and interconnects on your system. I found the cheap QED Silver Anniversary XT worked really well with the spendors and not at all harsh. If posible try changing accoustics in your room you can move furniture or place sound absorbant material behind the speakers. You can always talk to spendor as well as they are extremey helpful.

 

[Anonymous]

hi there. Have you tried one of Naims power supplies on the SN. I know on my system that it made the treble much sweeter. Maybe you could try some dynaudios or proacs as they may be more suited to the SN. It does sound like it could be the amp but worth trying. Hope you sort it.

Regards

Not yet but I'm in the market for a second hand Avondale XP2. Let's see what this brings.

 

[Anonymous]

Has the SuperNait been burned in yet? Also, do check your source. I heard in a B&W shop with some digital conversion/sources playing with PM1 and they sound awful even in their showroom.

I have heard supernait with Neat speakers and they are fast and open.

Good luck with trying with various sources, change room acoustics, check supply source, and more time to burn in the SN.

Hope to hear good news from you. I am thinking about Nait2 or SN for my own PMC24.