Cyrus stream X Signature and Sonos Connect streamer comparison and connections

[markvh1]

Not sure if I have started this in the correct forum.

I have both these streamers available and want to make a comparison.

Basically is it OK to connect the Sonos Connect coax or optical output into the coax or optical input of a Chord QBD76 DAC at the same time as connectiing the Cyrus Stream X Signature coax output into the other coax input of the Chord QBD76 DAC? If so I could compare the same track by using the Sonos app then stop the Sonos app then switch directly to the Cyrus cadence app. Music will be streamed from one or more WD NAS drives through a gigabit switch.

Thanks

 

[matt49]

Yes, no problem at all.

And you don't need to stop one streamer while listening to the other; you can run the same music simultaneously on both and switch between them. This overcomes to some extent the problem that our audio memory is extremely short. Moreover, if you're interested in doing a basic blind test, you could get someone else to do the switching for you.

Of course, whether you'll hear any difference between the two devices is another matter altogether ...

What do you think of the functionality pof the Cyrus Stream's user interface? How does it compare with the Sonos?

Matt

 

[davedotco]

If you are going to try 'instant' switcing between the two streamers you need to level match the output from the dac.

Some digits are louder than others.

 

[The_Lhc]

Yes, no problem at all.

I was going to say that but looking at the manual I don't see how you distinguish between the two inputs? It just says COAX, rather than COAX1 or COAX2 for example?

 

[andyjm]

If you are going to try 'instant' switcing between the two streamers you need to level match the output from the dac.

Some digits are louder than others.

You are being ironic?

 

[markvh1]

Yes, no problem at all.

And you don't need to stop one streamer while listening to the other; you can run the same music simultaneously on both and switch between them. This overcomes to some extent the problem that our audio memory is extremely short. Moreover, if you're interested in doing a basic blind test, you could get someone else to do the switching for you.

Of course, whether you'll hear any difference between the two devices is another matter altogether ...

What do you think of the functionality pof the Cyrus Stream's user interface? How does it compare with the Sonos?

Matt

At the moment, there is no comparison. The Sonos' interface is way way better than the Cyrus. But this may be because I have only had the Cyrus for less than a week and the Sonos for a couple of years.

By the way is it true that a Cyrus Streamer takes a long time to burn in to realise it's full potential as noted inside the Cyrus packaging box lid or is that snake oil?

 

[cheeseboy]

By the way is it true that a Cyrus Streamer takes a long time to burn in to realise it's full potential as noted inside the Cyrus packaging box lid or is that snake oil?

imho total snake oil. My personal gripe is that if it takes "a long time" to burn in to make it sound decent, they should do that in the bloody factory, not expect people at home to have to wait. Either way, I still think it's bobbins personally for electric gubbins. Speakers, different kettle of fish.

 

[matt49]

Yes, no problem at all.

I was going to say that but looking at the manual I don't see how you distinguish between the two inputs? It just says COAX, rather than COAX1 or COAX2 for example?

I see what you mean. That's a bit carp, isn't it. Clearly you can switch between the inputs, but as you say, the manual doesn't state whether the coax inputs have different designations on the display. Either that's poor design or the manual's wrong.

Matt

 

[Vladimir]

The burn in time ends exactly 24 hours after the waranty expires.

 

[markvh1]

Or is the burn in time the length of time to get used to or accept a different sound from previous?

 

[andyjm]

The Sonos connect has a middling reputation for jitter. Depending on which study you believe, its level of jitter may (or may not) be on the threshold of audibility.

The Chord DAC has a fancy ring buffer that allows it to read data into RAM using the S/PDIF clock, and read it out using its local clock. This would correct any input jitter from the Sonos. This can be switched off (or on) - I would be interested to know if you can hear any difference with the RAM facility on or off with the Sonos connect.

One downside of having the RAM on is that there is pause after pressing play as the the buffer fills up.

 

[markvh1]

The Sonos connect has a middling reputation for jitter. Depending on which study you believe, its level of jitter may (or may not) be on the threshold of audibility.

The Chord DAC has a fancy ring buffer that allows it to read data into RAM using the S/PDIF clock, and read it out using its local clock. This would correct any input jitter from the Sonos. This can be switched off (or on) - I would be interested to know if you can hear any difference with the RAM facility on or off with the Sonos connect.

One downside of having the RAM on is that there is pause after pressing play as the the buffer fills up.

The delay is 3 to 4 seconds and I never notice it now.

I wonder if there would be any sound quality difference between the Sono and the Cyrus streamers and if I can connect both to the Chord DAC at the same time without causing any harm.

 

[matt49]

It certainly won't do any damage!

 

[andyjm]

The Sonos connect has a middling reputation for jitter. Depending on which study you believe, its level of jitter may (or may not) be on the threshold of audibility.

The Chord DAC has a fancy ring buffer that allows it to read data into RAM using the S/PDIF clock, and read it out using its local clock. This would correct any input jitter from the Sonos. This can be switched off (or on) - I would be interested to know if you can hear any difference with the RAM facility on or off with the Sonos connect.

One downside of having the RAM on is that there is pause after pressing play as the the buffer fills up.

The delay is 3 to 4 seconds and I never notice it now.

I wonder if there would be any sound quality difference between the Sono and the Cyrus streamers and if I can connect both to the Chord DAC at the same time without causing any harm.

If you are already using the reclock feature of the chord, then there is no way the streamers will sound any different - how could they?

As I posted above, it would be interesting to compare RAM on vs RAM off for the Sonos as this is an area where questions have been raised about the Sonos connect's performance.

Edit: should have been clearer about streamer performance. 3 ways a streamer can sound different:

1. Wrong bits - no streamer I know introduces errors, they are all bit perfect.

2. Wrong time - jitter does matter, but how much is audible is open to debate. Reclocking the data (RAM on) on your chord will remove this from the equation.

3. Really bad power supply dumping tons of junk onto the mains which is picked up by other downstream amps etc. - There are rules about how much junk you can dump, and any decent amp / preamp will have mains filtering to stop this.

.... therefore the two streamers will sound the same.

 

[davedotco]

The Sonos connect has a middling reputation for jitter. Depending on which study you believe, its level of jitter may (or may not) be on the threshold of audibility.

The Chord DAC has a fancy ring buffer that allows it to read data into RAM using the S/PDIF clock, and read it out using its local clock. This would correct any input jitter from the Sonos. This can be switched off (or on) - I would be interested to know if you can hear any difference with the RAM facility on or off with the Sonos connect.

One downside of having the RAM on is that there is pause after pressing play as the the buffer fills up.

The delay is 3 to 4 seconds and I never notice it now.

I wonder if there would be any sound quality difference between the Sono and the Cyrus streamers and if I can connect both to the Chord DAC at the same time without causing any harm.

If you are already using the reclock feature of the chord, then there is no way the streamers will sound any different - how could they?

As I posted above, it would be interesting to compare RAM on vs RAM off for the Sonos as this is an area where questions have been raised about the Sonos connect's performance.

Edit: should have been clearer about streamer performance. 3 ways a streamer can sound different:

1. Wrong bits - no streamer I know introduces errors, they are all bit perfect.

2. Wrong time - jitter does matter, but how much is audible is open to debate. Reclocking the data (RAM on) on your chord will remove this from the equation.

3. Really bad power supply dumping tons of junk onto the mains which is picked up by other downstream amps etc. - There are rules about how much junk you can dump, and any decent amp / preamp will have mains filtering to stop this.

.... therefore the two streamers will sound the same.

My experience tells me that '3.' is more common than you suggest, so I am not totally with you on this.

I no longer have acess to loads of equipment so my experience is limited to comparisons of modified Sonos Connect and the standard version.

I am reasonably sure that there is a repeatable improvement when using the W4S mods, I have tried this on a number of occasions and am fairly convinced, bits are bits, so as you point out, it must be another factor and my thoughts are that it is noise.

I know Matt49 has similar experiences, maybe he can contribute.

 

[matt49]

My experience tells me that '3.' is more common than you suggest, so I am not totally with you on this.

I no longer have acess to loads of equipment so my experience is limited to comparisons of modified Sonos Connect and the standard version.

I am reasonably sure that there is a repeatable improvement when using the W4S mods, I have tried this on a number of occasions and am fairly convinced, bits are bits, so as you point out, it must be another factor and my thoughts are that it is noise.

I know Matt49 has similar experiences, maybe he can contribute.

Yep, in the blind tests I did last year the the modded and unmodded Connects were reliably distinguishable. I happen to agree that noise is the most likely candidate. I did these tests over coax SPDIF into an Audiolab M-DAC and headphones. It's possible that the M-DAC's noise rejection is not up to scratch. In other words, Andy may be right, but PSU noise may be audible in some systems.

One day I may get around to trying the same tests through the Devialet.

 

[markvh1]

I have now bought A Cyrus Stream X2 signature with N-remote and use the cadence streaming app on the iPad. It would appear that I cannot create playlists/queues unless I am missing something.
Am I correct in thinking I need a program like Asset UPnP to create playlists/queues? But also do I need an app or something installed on my iPad to also create playlists/queues and the like?
If so what would be good to work with Asset?
Thanks in advance for your help.