Cyrus / Neat - Bass is missing!

[petelovesdrums]

I'm not getting the sound from my system that I know it can produce: I have a Cyrus CDt Transport, Pre2DAC, PSX-R2 power supply and Stereo 200 power amp, coaxial interconnect between CD and Pre-amp, Chord Cobra 2 between pre- and power amp, and Gale XL 189 speaker cable - 7 metre runs (of necessity). I have recently replaced my old Monitor Audio Silver S6 speakers with a pair of Neat Momentum 3i speakers, mounted on Custom Design FS104 stands (half filled). At the moment, the system isn't in its ideal place, situated in a 4m x 3.5m room with hardwood floor - thus rather echoey. The issue is that the speakers aren't producing the extended bass of which I know they're capable. When demo'ed, they produced just that; warm, tight bass with surprisingly low extension. Now, when I play pieces I heard at the demo, the lowest of notes just don't have the power that I heard originally. The mid- and high-end are detailed (although maybe not quite as well as in the shop). What's the problem? Speaker cable?

 

[drummerman]

I hope I correctly assume that you have of course heard the system at your dealers as you have at home, right?

 

[Covenanter]

Whatever it is it isn't cables!

Chris

 

[CnoEvil]

Is the floor suspended? If so, you need to isolate the speakers stands from it.

How did your previous speakers sound?

Are the stands rock steady?

Are the speakers Blu-Taked to the stands?

What S/C did the shop use?

 

[paulkebab]

aren't capable of moving a pretty high volume of air (in a room that size) enough for you to get the sound you want. As covenanter said, it ain't the cables and given that amount of air to move I'd say the MA's would sound better..however, you say the system is not in its ideal place so maybe you need to re-appraise when it is.

 

[petelovesdrums]

Drummerman - yep, I auditioned the speakers with similar kit to my own. CnoEvil - that might be the answer; the floor is floating. So should I stand the stands (spikes) on slabs of....granite? PaulKebab - the MAs produced too much woolly bass, lacking tightness. The Neats are way better all round, apart from the very lowest of bass notes (from bass pedals for instance). The notes are there, but without the power I know the speakers will produce.

 

[CnoEvil]

CnoEvil - that might be the answer; the floor is floating. So should I stand the stands (spikes) on slabs of....granite?

You have a few options...and the best way to go usually requires a bit of experimentation.

Having a similar problem, this is what I did:

- Each stand sits on 2 granite worktop savers, that cost me £7 each (ie £28 for all 4)

- I removed the spikes and stuck the bottom of the Stands to the Granite, with Blu-Tak

- I 3/4 filled the Stands with kiln dried sand (which is good for damping)

- The speakers are attached to the top with a mixture of Blu-Tak and Valhalla VT feet: http://www.kronosav.com/accessories/isolation/valhalla-technology-vt-feet-type-7-prices-reviews.html

- If you want to keep the spikes on, you will need spike shoes, preferably ones that help with isolation like these: http://www.kronosav.com/sale/valhalla-technology-vt-spike-feet-shoes-prices-reviews.html

There are also very expensive options from the likes of Track Audio and Townshend Audio but cheaper solutions are worth trying and can be very effective.

 

[TrevC]

Add a sub, preferably with an antimode. You will be blown away. A small stand mounter like that one can't reproduce very low bass pedal notes.

 

[drummerman]

Add a sub, preferably with an antimode. You will be blown away. A small stand mounter like that one can't reproduce very low bass pedal notes.

Agree

I have used a small sub for the last 5 years. Sometimes it's switched on, at other times, including LP it is out of circuit. It is used in my second, non-cyrus system.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

We have almost the same system. I have the Pre2 DAc Qx with psx-r CDT and this week moving into the stereo 200 from a 8 power but running into a set of Proac studio 118's. My 8 Power is the let down but I love the sound that this system produces its clean detailed and tight. I suggest room placement I had to reagrange before I got my best sound.

 

[SteveR750]

Sounds like you have the same room issues as me. Does the bass come back if you sit closer or further away?

 

[petelovesdrums]

I've now placed the stands on solid slabs (which I'll be replacing with some more attractive granite). CnoEvil, are yours sitting flat on the flooring? I've seen granite pads specifically made for speaker stands which have feet or more spikes on - not sure whether these would just compund the problem. These slabs seems to have made a difference to the bottom (and top) end, though hasn't solved the bass problem entirely to my satisfaction. At the moment the speakers sit on the small plasticky/rubbery pads supplied with the stands - I'll replace them with those Valhalla pads and buy the spike shoes - which I was going to in the first instance.

 

[petelovesdrums]

I've just bought the Valhalla pads and spike shoes (thanks CnoEVil!) so let's see whether these have the desired effect. I'll top up the filler in the stand columns too. Room placement is indeed an issue Mike, Steve - and I'll be moving all of this kit to a bigger room with a more solid, tiled floor in due course. This room is also larger (5m x 5m) and will allow more flexibility in speaker placement relative to the walls. TrevC/Drummerman - a mate of mine had similar issues and installed a B&W Sub with his ATC SCM19s, Quad 909 and Audiolad 8000 pre-amp. It does the job, though it's noticeable when it kicks in sub- 54Hz so doesn't sound very subtle to me.. I might borrow it to see how it performs. Thanks for the suggestions guys - watch this space ;-)

 

[CnoEvil]

I've now placed the stands on solid slabs (which I'll be replacing with some more attractive granite). CnoEvil, are yours sitting flat on the flooring? I've seen granite pads specifically made for speaker stands which have feet or more spikes on - not sure whether these would just compund the problem. These slabs seems to have made a difference to the bottom (and top) end, though hasn't solved the bass problem entirely to my satisfaction. At the moment the speakers sit on the small plasticky/rubbery pads supplied with the stands - I'll replace them with those Valhalla pads and buy the spike shoes - which I was going to in the first instance.

My Granite slabs are just sitting on the Carpet

IMO. There is no need for "Audiophile Granite" which can be costly...you can always sort your own feet.

If you don't use Granite Worktop Savers from the likes of Argos, try offcuts from places that make Fire surrounds / Kitchen Wortops / Tombstones....the thicker the better.

 

[CnoEvil]

I've just bought the Valhalla pads and spike shoes (thanks CnoEVil!) so let's see whether these have the desired effect. I'll top up the filler in the stand columns too.

Don't thank me unless it helps.

The Valhalla pads are quite slippy, so use a little Blu-Tak as well.

What have you used to fill the stands? Also, totally filling the stands "can" rob the speakers of a little life, so try 3/4 full first and see how it sounds.

Do let me know if these various tweaks work satisfactorily....nobody can say that you aren't putting in the effort.

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

How do you like the stereo 200 with the rest of your system? Canada Customs has mine at the border for about 2 weeks or so and I'm anxious to place it in.

 

[petelovesdrums]

The stands are probably 2/3 or so filled (hard to tell exactly) with volcanic sand. I hope to be able to get hold of a couple of slabs of granite from a mate who fits kitchens. I'll let you know what results I get, for sure.

 

[petelovesdrums]

Finally, I've got my system set up in a 'proper' room . A 5m x 5m living room, carpetted, with curtains and two massive sofas. the sound is immaculate. Everything that ought to be there is now present. Previously, in a room half the size and with hard surfaces throughout, the sound was frustrating me. All is now good in my world! thanks fot your comments people.

 

[Muddywaterstones]

Had similar problems after moving rooms too. Putting a decent sized rug on the ground really tightened the bass up, giving it more speed and punch. You still get the warmth from the wood floors (had tiled floors in the other room which were horrible for sound) but without the boom, meaning the mids and treble come through clearer.

Oops! I see you've solved the problem in the time it took me to type a response!