Cyrus CD Player Upgrade Rip Off

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

drummerman:Ravey Gravey Davy:

Ho hum- and I so wanted to watch the football rather than have a second night prole bashing and brown nosing.

Why change a habit ... ?

Because I am not a nun, cloistered off from the outside world and its inherent reality.

 

[drummerman]

matthewpiano:drummerman:
Hughes123:This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?

Careful, you might set AndrewEverard off again. He seems to be on a retailer/manufacturer protection crusade. He also seems to forget where his bread n' butter comes from and that all those dealers/manufacturers/publications are here only because of one reason ... us, the punters.

I'm somewhat tired of being told we owe these companies and retailers. We don't, its as simple as that.

No drummerman. The simple fact is this. The customer deserves a quality product, supported by excellent customer service at a fair and reasonable price. That fair and reasonable price can only be set by taking into account the costs of producing and distributing the product and the need for both manufacturer and retailer to survive as a business, a need which can only be fulfilled by there being some profit in the equation. Without profit business is a waste of time.

Nobody is suggesting that the consumer owes manufacturers or retailers anything. They have to succeed or die on the basis of how effectively they balance the product quality, customer service and pricing. However, it is naive and completely wrong to expect that the manufacturers and retailers somehow owe consumers the right to get higher and higher quality both in terms of product and customer service/support without paying a price that allows those companies to thrive and feed further developments in technology and customer service.

It is, of course, true that the manufacturers and retailers only exist because of their customers, but with too many customers like your good self, many of them won't exist into the future. Also remember that if the manufacturers and retailers hadn't invested time, talent and money into developing and distributing the product, the consumer desire wouldn't be there anyway. What Hi-Fi exists because of the consumers AND the manufacturers/retailers. Without a product there wouldn't be a market and without a market there wouldn't be a product.

Simple as that.

Well, our retail consortium seems to have assembled again, in full

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:drummerman:
Hughes123:This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?

Careful, you might set AndrewEverard off again. He seems to be on a retailer/manufacturer protection crusade. He also seems to forget where his bread n' butter comes from and that all those dealers/manufacturers/publications are here only because of one reason ... us, the punters.

I'm somewhat tired of being told we owe these companies and retailers. We don't, its as simple as that.

No drummerman. The simple fact is this. The customer deserves a quality product, supported by excellent customer service at a fair and reasonable price. That fair and reasonable price can only be set by taking into account the costs of producing and distributing the product and the need for both manufacturer and retailer to survive as a business, a need which can only be fulfilled by there being some profit in the equation. Without profit business is a waste of time.

Nobody is suggesting that the consumer owes manufacturers or retailers anything. They have to succeed or die on the basis of how effectively they balance the product quality, customer service and pricing. However, it is naive and completely wrong to expect that the manufacturers and retailers somehow owe consumers the right to get higher and higher quality both in terms of product and customer service/support without paying a price that allows those companies to thrive and feed further developments in technology and customer service.

It is, of course, true that the manufacturers and retailers only exist because of their customers, but with too many customers like your good self, many of them won't exist into the future. Also remember that if the manufacturers and retailers hadn't invested time, talent and money into developing and distributing the product, the consumer desire wouldn't be there anyway. What Hi-Fi exists because of the consumers AND the manufacturers/retailers. Without a product there wouldn't be a market and without a market there wouldn't be a product.

Simple as that.

Then again, you've got to be competative! I have to say I agree with Drummerman with everything he said...I don't understand (and this is just my opinion) why people are so sympathetic towards manafacturers. Now, I'm from a different generation to most of you on here (no offense!) and I think that competition is what makes our economy tick; if there was no competition, we would be buying petrol for £100s a litre and getting a mortgage for a pair of speakers because we would be ignorant to better prices.

 

[matthewpiano]

drummerman:matthewpiano:drummerman:
Hughes123:This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?

Careful, you might set AndrewEverard off again. He seems to be on a retailer/manufacturer protection crusade. He also seems to forget where his bread n' butter comes from and that all those dealers/manufacturers/publications are here only because of one reason ... us, the punters.

I'm somewhat tired of being told we owe these companies and retailers. We don't, its as simple as that.

No drummerman. The simple fact is this. The customer deserves a quality product, supported by excellent customer service at a fair and reasonable price. That fair and reasonable price can only be set by taking into account the costs of producing and distributing the product and the need for both manufacturer and retailer to survive as a business, a need which can only be fulfilled by there being some profit in the equation. Without profit business is a waste of time.

Nobody is suggesting that the consumer owes manufacturers or retailers anything. They have to succeed or die on the basis of how effectively they balance the product quality, customer service and pricing. However, it is naive and completely wrong to expect that the manufacturers and retailers somehow owe consumers the right to get higher and higher quality both in terms of product and customer service/support without paying a price that allows those companies to thrive and feed further developments in technology and customer service.

It is, of course, true that the manufacturers and retailers only exist because of their customers, but with too many customers like your good self, many of them won't exist into the future. Also remember that if the manufacturers and retailers hadn't invested time, talent and money into developing and distributing the product, the consumer desire wouldn't be there anyway. What Hi-Fi exists because of the consumers AND the manufacturers/retailers. Without a product there wouldn't be a market and without a market there wouldn't be a product.

Simple as that.

Well, our retail consortium seems to have assembled again, in full

You obviously haven't even bothered to read my entirely balanced post. It is becoming increasingly obvious that your perspective is the only one you see and that, as long as you get what you want, to hell with the people in the hi-fi/AV industry who have worked hard to bring the product to the market.

Don't worry. Carry on with that attitude. Soon you'll not have to bother with the retailers or manufacturers because they will have gone bust. Instead you could build your own equipment and get it all at cost price. Might turn out to be rubbish but at least you won't be supporting business.

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

drummerman:matthewpiano:drummerman:

Hughes123:This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?

Careful, you might set AndrewEverard off again. He seems to be on a retailer/manufacturer protection crusade. He also seems to forget where his bread n' butter comes from and that all those dealers/manufacturers/publications are here only because of one reason ... us, the punters.

I'm somewhat tired of being told we owe these companies and retailers. We don't, its as simple as that.

No drummerman. The simple fact is this. The customer deserves a quality product, supported by excellent customer service at a fair and reasonable price. That fair and reasonable price can only be set by taking into account the costs of producing and distributing the product and the need for both manufacturer and retailer to survive as a business, a need which can only be fulfilled by there being some profit in the equation. Without profit business is a waste of time. Nobody is suggesting that the consumer owes manufacturers or retailers anything. They have to succeed or die on the basis of how effectively they balance the product quality, customer service and pricing. However, it is naive and completely wrong to expect that the manufacturers and retailers somehow owe consumers the right to get higher and higher quality both in terms of product and customer service/support without paying a price that allows those companies to thrive and feed further developments in technology and customer service. It is, of course, true that the manufacturers and retailers only exist because of their customers, but with too many customers like your good self, many of them won't exist into the future. Also remember that if the manufacturers and retailers hadn't invested time, talent and money into developing and distributing the product, the consumer desire wouldn't be there anyway. What Hi-Fi exists because of the consumers AND the manufacturers/retailers. Without a product there wouldn't be a market and without a market there wouldn't be a product. Simple as that.

Well, our retail consortium seems to have assembled again, in full

Another personal and as far as the thread goes unique view probably brought on by the sunglasses. A collection of reasonable people who understand how business life functions,not a consortium .I personally am not in retail,and never have been.

I suppose retail prices will have to be decided by a mandate from the masses in the future.

 

[Anonymous]

Dealers and manufacturers may go bust if they cannot produce competitive or good value products.

Who cares? It should be survival of the fittest.

Market forces will determine whether Cyrus' pricing is so high that demand is reduced. If you don't want to pay £588 then you do not have to.

Perhaps Cyrus' Management Accountants have made a strategic decision to price this high. They are a small company and are likely to have scarce resources. If it is more profitable to use the scarce resources (staff/machinery) to produce new SE CDPs then they may like to deter the return of older players for an upgrade.

 

[Anonymous]

Dear Matthewpiano

With all due respect, you too seem to have missed the point, so let me make it simple for you. You're a long time Cyrus customer and want to buy a new CD player to replace an old model that is starting to play up. Cyrus announced some time ago that they had new models in the pipeline, but they have repeatedly missed the introductory dates they have published. You go to your dealer and he offers to sell you a CD8X for £1000 and tells you that you can upgrade it when the SE is introduced for £300, and that the likely retail price of the 8SE is £1100. You go ahead with the purchase and now, two months after Cyrus started upgrading the players for the £300 you were expecting, you find that they've virtually doubled the upgrade cost. You will actually be paying £1588 for a CD player that retails at £1100. Would you not be a little annoyed too?

I too don't wish to see Cyrus go under, but they have been performing and costing upgrades for a very long time now and I find it very difficult to believe Peter Bartlett's explanation that they got this one so wrong. As I mentioned in my previous post this doesn't hold water when you look at the increase that has been applied to the CD6 upgrade. If this were also increased by 96% (instead of 27%) it would now cost £1078 instead of £700 (previously £550). Clearly nobody would pay £1078 to upgrade a CD player when the retail price of a new one is only £22 more! There has to be more to this than meets the eye and frankly, as you don't appear to own any Cyrus gear, I'm not sure what you're interest is anyway.

 

[matthewpiano]

PAAS:
Dear Matthewpiano

With all due respect, you too seem to have missed the point, so let me make it simple for you. You're a long time Cyrus customer and want to buy a new CD player to replace an old model that is starting to play up. Cyrus announced some time ago that they had new models in the pipeline, but they have repeatedly missed the introductory dates they have published. You go to your dealer and he offers to sell you a CD8X for £1000 and tells you that you can upgrade it when the SE is introduced for £300, and that the likely retail price of the 8SE is £1100. You go ahead with the purchase and now, two months after Cyrus started upgrading the players for the £300 you were expecting, you find that they've virtually doubled the upgrade cost. You will actually be paying £1588 for a CD player that retails at £1100. Would you not be a little annoyed too?

I too don't wish to see Cyrus go under, but they have been performing and costing upgrades for a very long time now and I find it very difficult to believe Peter Bartlett's explanation that they got this one so wrong. As I mentioned in my previous post this doesn't hold water when you look at the increase that has been applied to the CD6 upgrade. If this were also increased by 96% (instead of 27%) it would now cost £1078 instead of £700 (previously £550). Clearly nobody would pay £1078 to upgrade a CD player when the retail price of a new one is only £22 more! There has to be more to this than meets the eye and frankly, as you don't appear to own any Cyrus gear, I'm not sure what you're interest is anyway.

I haven't missed the point and certainly don't need to be patronised by anyone 'making it simple'. My interest is in the constant criticism that the industry seems to be getting on here at the moment. It comes from being in AV retail myself. Today, for example, I had a customer who couldn't understand why I wouldn't sell them an item at a price which would have made a loss. That sort of sale is pointless.

I don't own any Cyrus gear because I'm personally not a fan. I do see your point and can understand the frustration of Cyrus owners but I also believe its important to consider their side as well. Only Cyrus themselves actually know the truth of the matter and, if they are artificially inflating prices on the back of awards they will surely end up paying for it in the long run.

However, we seem to be breeding a culture of people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. This approach has pervaded white goods for a long time and has now hit the car industry (in which I used to work) terribly. The upshot is more emphasis on the mainstream and middle of the road in terms of design and quality and less on individuality. Do we want the hi-fi industry to end up like this? I don't, and that is why I am interested in issues such as this.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:It comes from being in AV retail myself.

With all due respect, and your opinion is very valid, you are naturally slightly biased if you are a retailer...

 

[the record spot]

Well, what difference does that make? Anyone in business can see the value of turnover, costs and underlying profit!

The point is the value Cyrus place on the upgrade. I thought £300 was a good value deal - almost too good to be true. Double that is pretty high, but you'd need to get their rationale for their pricing.

Anyone who's got an older 6 or 8 (i.e. at least two generations back) would find it worthwhile considering the upgrade IMO, even at almost £600. Anyone who's snapped up a reduced price 8x for £550 - a price Glasgow Audio were offering for one recently, new - would be getting a very good deal if they then went off and took the £300 upgrade path and I won't be surprised to hear a Cyrus exec privately admitting they wanted to prevent this scenario happening.

Cyrus often cut their prices for end of line stock, they get their dealer network to do the same. In effect, they'd be undercutting themselves; buy an 8x, upgrade it to 8SE spec and at £800 or even £900 a punter walks off with a handsome saving and the current spec player - Cyrus've done themselves out of £200 or £300 because of their sales model. All IMO of course! In the end, they've honoured their existing orders (fair do's to them) and it seems like an honest mimstake, albeit a bit club footed on their behalf!

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:PAAS:
Dear Matthewpiano

With all due respect, you too seem to have missed the point, so let me make it simple for you. You're a long time Cyrus customer and want to buy a new CD player to replace an old model that is starting to play up. Cyrus announced some time ago that they had new models in the pipeline, but they have repeatedly missed the introductory dates they have published. You go to your dealer and he offers to sell you a CD8X for £1000 and tells you that you can upgrade it when the SE is introduced for £300, and that the likely retail price of the 8SE is £1100. You go ahead with the purchase and now, two months after Cyrus started upgrading the players for the £300 you were expecting, you find that they've virtually doubled the upgrade cost. You will actually be paying £1588 for a CD player that retails at £1100. Would you not be a little annoyed too?

I too don't wish to see Cyrus go under, but they have been performing and costing upgrades for a very long time now and I find it very difficult to believe Peter Bartlett's explanation that they got this one so wrong. As I mentioned in my previous post this doesn't hold water when you look at the increase that has been applied to the CD6 upgrade. If this were also increased by 96% (instead of 27%) it would now cost £1078 instead of £700 (previously £550). Clearly nobody would pay £1078 to upgrade a CD player when the retail price of a new one is only £22 more! There has to be more to this than meets the eye and frankly, as you don't appear to own any Cyrus gear, I'm not sure what you're interest is anyway.

I haven't missed the point and certainly don't need to be patronised by anyone 'making it simple'. My interest is in the constant criticism that the industry seems to be getting on here at the moment. It comes from being in AV retail myself. Today, for example, I had a customer who couldn't understand why I wouldn't sell them an item at a price which would have made a loss. That sort of sale is pointless.

I don't own any Cyrus gear because I'm personally not a fan. I do see your point and can understand the frustration of Cyrus owners but I also believe its important to consider their side as well. Only Cyrus themselves actually know the truth of the matter and, if they are artificially inflating prices on the back of awards they will surely end up paying for it in the long run.

However, we seem to be breeding a culture of people who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. This approach has pervaded white goods for a long time and has now hit the car industry (in which I used to work) terribly. The upshot is more emphasis on the mainstream and middle of the road in terms of design and quality and less on individuality. Do we want the hi-fi industry to end up like this? I don't, and that is why I am interested in issues such as this.

It couldn't be more clear that you are totally missing the point. This debate is not about the perceived value of the upgrade ... £588 may seem like a good deal to many. The point is that people paid £800-£1,000 for a CD player only 3 months ago that they were told could they upgrade to the SE model for £300. They were buying the CD8X knowing that they were in effect buying the CD8SE model when it became available.

A) they would not have bought it otherwise
B) they were not really benefiting themselves or being opportunistic as the new player would retail at £1,100 (they had nothing to gain by buying then upgrading)
C) by accelerating their purchase they were actually helping Cyrus with cash flow

This is what people have beef with, not whether £588 is good value. If someone had sold you flights to USA and promised you a stay in a hotel for £300, but when you arrived increased the price to £588 for your hotel wouldn't you be angry?

As some have pointed out the Cyrus response does not make sense. The CD8X differs from a CD8SE by the transport yet costs £588 to upgrade (we have been told the power supply and DAC etc have not changed). The CD6 has a different power supply, transport, does not work with PSX-R, has a different DAC ... is a generation older, etc, etc yet costs only £112 more to upgrade at £700. Where is the logic in that?

 

[the record spot]

JohnDuncan:cf Primare - buy a CD21 (£800), sell on eBay (£400), buy a cD31 (£1,500). Cost of upgrade: £1,100.

Or, Marantz SA7001-KI Signature (£650) but with a hefty discount, I got mine for £300. Now that's what I call a deal!

 

[Anonymous]

Have I got this wrong?......When a manufacturer brings out any new product the old one it replaces sinks in value. If you buy the old product then common sense and experience tells you that you have bought it cheap...a bargain... to keep it , run it , enjoy it and not think that it is worth its orriginal asking price. ie the value of an 8x is only £550new(which it ended up being sold for) not the £800 new it once was.That means everybody's 8x has dropped in value and that would be reflected if you tried to sell it second hand

If you apply this thinking to this scenario an 8x + upgrade comes to £1150 whilst an 8 se is £1100. In this case the letter of explanation seems quite reasonable.

I have had cyrus gear for nearly 25yrs and am a supporter of their products and whilst I can see the reason some are very annoyed by what has happened I also see that for someone to buy an 8x for £550 and upgrade for £300 a total of £850 compared to £1100 for the new 8se is madness if you still want to sell new gear.

For those who bought an 8x my advice is this.....turn it on ...load your favourite disc...sit back ....relax. You are still listening to one hell of a cd player. Do not think of the improvement in performance you could get because it will overshadow your present enjoyment.

This goes for all upgrading but at least with cyrus you can at least upgrade it and not have to sell first.

Alan.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Well said Max.

Grimaldi:" Its not good value for money at all when many people bought the CD8X knowing that the player was effectively obsolete. They wanted to buy the CD8SE but Cyrus was still struggling with its development. They bought the CD8X in the process helping Cyrus with the cashflow safe in the knowledge that when Cyrus developed the new model they could upgrade at a reasonable price. Thats why for so many the upgrades don't offer any value indeed!If you bought your CD8X earlier this year, pricing was around £650. With the cost of the upgrade to an SE at £588, that makes the total cost of the player £1238. Hardly "disgusting". As others have mentioned, what else can you get upgraded these days? Regardless of cost, having the possibility of an upgrade is quite rare nowadays in this 'throw away' world we're living in.

I urge people not to read what they want to read between the lines, as this is a genuine situation. I'm sure if Cyrus were taking the Michael, they wouldn't have upped the prices at this time, nor by the amount they have. If something needs to be done, it needs to be done. Would you rather Cyrus dropped the upgrading of equipment altogether because they make no money on it? Or would you rather their R&D resources dwindled? Or even worse, would you rather they go out of business?!!

And just a reminder, not only can you upgrade a well out of warranty CD player, but you also get a 2 year warranty with it as well. Very good value for money if you ask me.

 

[Anonymous]

It may still be good value for some but the key point is that the goalposts have moved with no notice being given. The people who got the really raw deal were those with the newest players ... those who purchased new with a view to a prompt upgrade and to who Cyrus dealers like you probably said "buy now, don't worry about waiting for the SE model to come out as you will be able to upgrade for £300" ... please tell me it wasn't so?

I hate this attitude of basically "you should thank the lord that there is still an upgrade route" ... well if there wasn't one I am sure Cyrus would be ******* off even more loyal customers.

How would you feel if you sold a CD player to someone for £1,000 and when you came to pay for it to Cyrus they demanded £800 for it rather than the usual £500?

Nice to see some dealers have the same contempt for customers as Cyrus.

 

[Anonymous]

Grimaldi, you keep refering to the fact that you bought your CD8x in the knowlegde you could upgrade to the 8 SE spec for £300. Either you entered into a purchase contract for this, in which you should hold Cyrus accountable to it, or you didnt. If you didnt, are you seriously surprised that Cyrus have raised costs when they discovered (if we are to believe them) that they were performing these upgrades at a loss ?

In seems your arrangement with your dealer / manufacturer was hardly watertight....which if you were banking on a fixed price upgrade of £300 then frankly it should have been.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Grimaldi:It may still be good value for some but the key point is that the goalposts have moved with no notice being given. The people who got the really raw deal were those with the newest players ... those who purchased new with a view to a prompt upgrade and to who Cyrus dealers like you probably said "buy now, don't worry about waiting for the SE model to come out as you will be able to upgrade for £300" ... please tell me it wasn't so? We never sold any CD8X's to people purely based on the fact they can upgrade it to an SE and pay less. We sold them based on the fact that they were the same price as the CD6S, and they had the option to upgrade at a later date. Those people that wanted a CD8SE placed orders for new models and were happy to wait.

Nice to see some dealers have the same contempt for customers as Cyrus.There will always be those people who're not happy with whatever business decision a company makes, and there will be those who have an axe to grind. There's nothing you can do for these people to convince them differently. I myself have lost over £500 on two products that have been reduced in price after I bought them, one was less than 3 weeks after purchase - these things happen.

 

[Anonymous]

Grimaldi:It may still be good value for some but the key point is that the goalposts have moved with no notice being given. The people who got the really raw deal were those with the newest players ... those who purchased new with a view to a prompt upgrade and to who Cyrus dealers like you probably said "buy now, don't worry about waiting for the SE model to come out as you will be able to upgrade for £300" ... please tell me it wasn't so?

I hate this attitude of basically "you should thank the lord that there is still an upgrade route" ... well if there wasn't one I am sure Cyrus would be ******* off even more loyal customers.

How would you feel if you sold a CD player to someone for £1,000 and when you came to pay for it to Cyrus they demanded £800 for it rather than the usual £500?

Nice to see some dealers have the same contempt for customers as Cyrus.

Have you never heard of 'caveat emptor'? If you're going to buy something that is soon to be obsolete in the expectation that you will be able to get it upgraded for a total cost of no more than the ultimate new model, then you have to get some kind of agreement in writing.

A price on a website or other literature stating an upgrade price is not a contract, and Cyrus have no obligation to honour it, especially if it is costing them significantly more than previously expected to carry out the upgrade.

If anyone was slow off the mark and therefore didn't benefit from the lower (bargain, being cheaper than cost) price, then that's bad luck, but don't gripe about it here; if businesses ran themselves the way you seem to hope them to, there wouldn't be a Cyrus, nor an Arcam, Cambridge Audio, Bryston, Primare, Roksan......... If you want a communist state where making a profit doesn't matter, go and live in North Korea.

 

[Anonymous]

andy444:
Grimaldi, you keep refering to the fact that you bought your CD8x in the knowlegde you could upgrade to the 8 SE spec for £300. Either you entered into a purchase contract for this, in which you should hold Cyrus accountable to it, or you didnt. If you didnt, are you seriously surprised that Cyrus have raised costs when they discovered (if we are to believe them) that they were performing these upgrades at a loss ?

In seems your arrangement with your dealer / manufacturer was hardly watertight....which if you were banking on a fixed price upgrade of £300 then frankly it should have been.

Its not about a watertight agreement, its about treating customers fairly.

Its almost unbelievable to think that Cyrus got the pricing wrong, particularly on the CD8X -> CD8SE upgrade, as this is the least costly and most straightforward one ... only the transport is supposed to change and everything else should be stay the same according to promotional Cyrus literature, yet this is the upgrade that has increased most in percentage terms (96% increase). What you are also forgetting is that Cyrus are not new to the upgrade business ... in fact their business model relies on it. They should have more experience than anyone else and thus should know right from the start how much it would cost and hence getting it wrong by almost 100% sounds ridiculous.

I suspect the marginal cost of upgrading the players hasn't gone up that much but that they are simply trying to recoup more of the development cost after it dragged on for so long and hence probably spiraled out of control.

I've no idea what the gross dealer margins are on these players but the upgrade constitutes 53% of the cost of a new player from a dealer ... probably not too far off what the dealer margin would be on a totally new player ... and all they have to do is change the transport and in many cases they get to bypass the middle man.

 

[matthewpiano]

ffiish:
Grimaldi:It may still be good value for some but the key point is that the goalposts have moved with no notice being given. The people who got the really raw deal were those with the newest players ... those who purchased new with a view to a prompt upgrade and to who Cyrus dealers like you probably said "buy now, don't worry about waiting for the SE model to come out as you will be able to upgrade for £300" ... please tell me it wasn't so?

I hate this attitude of basically "you should thank the lord that there is still an upgrade route" ... well if there wasn't one I am sure Cyrus would be ******* off even more loyal customers.

How would you feel if you sold a CD player to someone for £1,000 and when you came to pay for it to Cyrus they demanded £800 for it rather than the usual £500?

Nice to see some dealers have the same contempt for customers as Cyrus.

Have you never heard of 'caveat emptor'? If you're going to buy something that is soon to be obsolete in the expectation that you will be able to get it upgraded for a total cost of no more than the ultimate new model, then you have to get some kind of agreement in writing.

A price on a website or other literature stating an upgrade price is not a contract, and Cyrus have no obligation to honour it, especially if it is costing them significantly more than previously expected to carry out the upgrade.

If anyone was slow off the mark and therefore didn't benefit from the lower (bargain, being cheaper than cost) price, then that's bad luck, but don't gripe about it here; if businesses ran themselves the way you seem to hope them to, there wouldn't be a Cyrus, nor an Arcam, Cambridge Audio, Bryston, Primare, Roksan......... If you want a communist state where making a profit doesn't matter, go and live in North Korea.

Finally, some common sense in this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

ffiish:
Grimaldi:It may still be good value for some but the key point is that the goalposts have moved with no notice being given. The people who got the really raw deal were those with the newest players ... those who purchased new with a view to a prompt upgrade and to who Cyrus dealers like you probably said "buy now, don't worry about waiting for the SE model to come out as you will be able to upgrade for £300" ... please tell me it wasn't so?

I hate this attitude of basically "you should thank the lord that there is still an upgrade route" ... well if there wasn't one I am sure Cyrus would be ******* off even more loyal customers.

How would you feel if you sold a CD player to someone for £1,000 and when you came to pay for it to Cyrus they demanded £800 for it rather than the usual £500?

Nice to see some dealers have the same contempt for customers as Cyrus.

Have you never heard of 'caveat emptor'? If you're going to buy something that is soon to be obsolete in the expectation that you will be able to get it upgraded for a total cost of no more than the ultimate new model, then you have to get some kind of agreement in writing.

A price on a website or other literature stating an upgrade price is not a contract, and Cyrus have no obligation to honour it, especially if it is costing them significantly more than previously expected to carry out the upgrade.

If anyone was slow off the mark and therefore didn't benefit from the lower (bargain, being cheaper than cost) price, then that's bad luck, but don't gripe about it here; if businesses ran themselves the way you seem to hope them to, there wouldn't be a Cyrus, nor an Arcam, Cambridge Audio, Bryston, Primare, Roksan......... If you want a communist state where making a profit doesn't matter, go and live in North Korea.

You are also missing the point. This is not a debate about contractual rights and "buyer beware". Ofcourse they have no obligation to honour it in law ... but honour it they should. Its simply not a way of treating loyal customers.

Have a look on the cyrus unofficial forums where you will see that my view is not unique (far from it, many are considerring selling their kit or simply abandoning Cyrus transports in favour of Sonos or other digital sources). Just cause you got lucky doesn't give you the right but merely the luxury to sound so righteous.

 

[John Duncan]

One point, irrespective of the Cyrus policy - with that existing setup, I'd be worried that even a 300 quid upgrade is going to give you that much improvement - up until a few months ago, that was about as good as Cyrus got. Are you sure you should be upgrading, whatever the price? Have you heard the SE in your system?

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps some of you would rather suppliers made no money and as such slowly dwindled away in numbers until semi-decent hifi was something that you could only buy from ebay or own brands from Richar Sounds?

Sure the rise seems steep but the new players are excellent I have heard. Also the new ones don't make the new ones rubbish and most people purchased the old ones at excellent prices. You can't have it both ways. Perhaps this is another opportunity for Cyrus detractors to stick the boot in? Or indeed another example of the British desease of consumers not wanting anyone to make any money out of them.

The guy from Cyrus replied and his answer seemed pretty straighforward to me. Maybe he wears a red suit and has split feet from the responses some people are posting. I bet few of them are Cyrus customers though and most are just S***stirring!

 

[Anonymous]

JD I think that people are starting to consider alternative options. A Sonos system can be purchased for less than £300 to feed a DAC and can be used without the costly Sonos remote if one has an iPhone or iTouch and should result in bit perfect playback. I simply enjoy putting in a shiny disc and playing it from start to finish.

 

[professorhat]

matthewpiano:Today, for example, I had a customer who couldn't understand why I wouldn't sell them an item at a price which would have made a loss. That sort of sale is pointless.
This reminds me of when I worked for a finance company a long, long time ago and someone phoned up saying they were getting a 0% interest free credit deal when buying their car and wanted to see if I could beat that deal.
"What, so you're asking if you can borrow some money from us, then pay back less than you borrowed over a period of 5 years?" I asked. They didn't seem to understand why we couldn't help them.