Cyrus CD Player Upgrade Rip Off

admin_exported

New member
Aug 10, 2019
2,556
4
0
Visit site
I contacted Cyrus today with a view to upgrading my CD8X to CD8SE spec.
I was told that the upgrade price has now gone up from £300 to £588 !!!
Is it me or does anyone else think that price (and the price hike) is grossly excessive ?
Curious how the price rise coincides with Cyrus' latest raft of awards for their SE platform.

This has seriously dented my affinity to the company.

...Discuss
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
In the words of Victor Meldrew:

"I DON'T BELIVE IT!!"

jules.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Well, assuming they didn't do it to curb demand due to lack of capacity in their factory, give it some time. You might find very few people will pay it and they'll drop the price a bit.
 

Naxos

New member
Oct 31, 2008
31
0
0
Visit site
I was going to upgrade my 4-year old CD6 to an 8x last May, but I though I'd hold off when I heard the SE was coming out. I got a quote for £500. Now I can afford the upgrade, I rang last week to find the cost had gone up to £700! However, I spoke/pleaded with a very helpful guy there, Darren, who promised to honour the original quote, so I'm pretty happy with that. If it's a quantum leap up from the 8x, which was already awesome, I cannot wait to get it back!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Those prices are gross and not good for public relations.......

Hopefully Clare's request and public opinion will bring it down.

Think I paid £200 for an Arcam upgrade once.
 

Clare Newsome

New member
Jun 4, 2007
1,657
0
0
Visit site
Ok, here is a very detailed response from Cyrus MD, Peter Bartlett:

"Twelve months ago we set our SE upgrade pricing believing that the engineering and time required to upgrade the players would be very much lower than they actually became. To put costs into perspective you need to understand what has to be accomplished.

Stripping the players down, removing the main board for component level re-engineering, replacing the old servo PCBA with the new SE element, replacing the loading assembly and sub chassis, aligning the new hardware, updating the software, reassembly, production system test and long QC soak test before packing.

Overall this is almost exactly the same path as building a new player, except a new player obviously doesn't take time to strip down.

Having explained the process I hope everyone can understand that this isn't just a quick software upgrade. Our Servo Evolution players are engineered using the highest quality components throughout and this, along with labor to achieve the upgrade, is where the value is. An upgraded player is every bit as good as a new CD 8 SE because most of its components are new.


To put Cyrus' upgrade path into perspective; if you buy a high spec digital camera or a high performance car its value drops almost instantly as you write the cheque, Cyrus is able to maintain the value of our customers purchases for many, many years. The fact that we are able to upgrade players at all is unusual.

As our costs are almost the same as a new player, how should we price the upgrade? Our policy is that, where possible, upgrades should cost slightly more than the difference between two models. In some cases this is very difficult to achieve, but where financially possible, this is our guide for upgrade pricing.

So the logic runs that if the average price of a CD 6 was typically £600 and a new CD 8SE is £1100, (£500 difference) we charge £700. To have a three year old CD 6 and upgrade it to a state-of-the-art SE player for £200 more than the difference between the original retail cost and today's new player price is fabulous value. (It may be relevant that many consumers will have purchased a CD6 SE in the last 12 months when the street price was very much lower making the difference even smaller.)

However, having realised that we had made a mistake on the pre-launch upgrade costs and that many customers would upgrade quickly we made a decision not to raise our price until November to give any orders in-house a chance to upgrade at the 'old' price. We made a loss on these upgrades but felt we had to honor the price for units already booked into our service systems over the last 12 months.

Cyrus is staffed by a world class team, totally driven by quality and it's amazing to have shown the world that a small company can achieve fantastic things if we are passionate about detail. Part of the reason we are successful in an industry dominated by low-cost overseas manufacturing is because we are in touch with our customers.


We don't want anyone to think we are making unreasonable profits, but we do have to do better than break even. Frankly, we made a mistake in the original pricing and I can understand that the revised prices look like a very big increase in comparison, however when you understand that an upgrade is almost a completely new SE player, you can, I hope, understand that our upgrades offer very good value indeed."
 

bretty

New member
Jul 20, 2007
248
0
0
Visit site
that official response was the longest possible way of saying 'we are greedy profiteerers, taking advantage of the overwhelmingly positive reviews of the new se machines' Disgusting. I really hope they've shot themselves in the foot. In this time of recession, it's a really astute business move to implement an almost 100% price hike. This has really got under my skin. Rant over.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Clare Newsome:
Ok, here is a very detailed response from Cyrus MD, Peter Bartlett:

"As our costs are almost the same as a new player, how should we price the upgrade? Our policy is that, where possible, upgrades should cost slightly more than the difference between two models. In some cases this is very difficult to achieve, but where financially possible, this is our guide for upgrade pricing.

So the logic runs that if the average price of a CD 6 was typically £600 and a new CD 8SE is £1100, (£500 difference) we charge £700. To have a three year old CD 6 and upgrade it to a state-of-the-art SE player for £200 more than the difference between the original retail cost and today's new player price is fabulous value.


So what if you bought a CD8X for £1000 a year ago. The difference to the CD8SE would be £100. And slightly more than £100 is..... £588 ?

I think Cyrus should just say: The SE players are so different from the ones they replace that a new upgrade pricing scheme is needed.

Basically it's a ***-up, but I think it was an honest mistake.

jules.
 

Andrew Everard

New member
May 30, 2007
1,878
2
0
Visit site
With respect, it might possibly have been 'disgusting' - your word, not mine - if the company hadn't bothered to respond.

Try asking Ford if they can rebuild your old Fiesta into a brand-new model and see how far it gets you.

If you think the pricing is a rip-off - and it seems from recent forum postings that just about everything in the world is nowadays - then don't bother having it done, simple as that. Ditch your old player on ebay and buy a new CD8SE - that'll teach the profiteering baskits a lesson.

Power to the people! Freedom for Tooting! Etc...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Andrew I think that you are forgetting that many people, including myself, purchased a CD8X for example, earlier this year knowing that effectively they were buying an opbsolete product which was going to be replaced in the very near future. If not for the upgrade path I would not have purchased the CD8X.

The ability to upgrade at a reasonable costs was a very significant driver in my purchase decision (and I suspect many others) - I purchased a new CD8X knowing that when the SE came out I could upgrade to a CD8SE for the same price as a new SE would cost (when taking into account the cost of the CD8X). My CD8X is 6 months old and I purchased it new from a dealer.

As to your suggested solution of selling the CD8X on eBay ... well I guess I will now be able to get around £300 less for it than a week ago!!!

It would not have been disgusting if they mentioned that they planned to increase their prices and not merely done it on the back of huge demand following all the award wins. Many made a decision not to upgrade within a week of the release of the SE models as a result of waiting for reviews and also wanting any initial teething problems to be ironed out (and we know there were a few of those) but still supporting the brand. Thats what makes this attitude and approach from Cyrus particularly shameful.

This has definitely left a very bitter taste in my mouth. A week ago I could have gotten an CD6 upgraded to a CD8SE for less than my expensively purchased CD8X will cost to upgrade. And the explanations provided by Cyrus have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Prices of materials have recently started to fall and the margins on upgrades cannot be that small (particularly as often no dealers are involved) ... please find someone else to accept a 100% increase reasonable ... particularly in this economic climate.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Quoting the Cyrus MD:

"We don't want anyone to think we are making unreasonable profits, but we do have to do better than break even. Frankly, we made a mistake in the original pricing and I can understand that the revised prices look like a very big increase in comparison, however when you understand that an upgrade is almost a completely new SE player, you can, I hope, understand that our upgrades offer very good value indeed."

Its not good value for money at all when many people bought the CD8X knowing that the player was effectively obsolete. They wanted to buy the CD8SE but Cyrus was still struggling with its development. They bought the CD8X in the process helping Cyrus with the cashflow safe in the knowledge that when Cyrus developed the new model they could upgrade at a reasonable price.

Thats why for so many the upgrades don't offer any value indeed!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Naxos:
I was going to upgrade my 4-year old CD6 to an 8x last May, but I though I'd hold off when I heard the SE was coming out. I got a quote for £500. Now I can afford the upgrade, I rang last week to find the cost had gone up to £700! However, I spoke/pleaded with a very helpful guy there, Darren, who promised to honour the original quote, so I'm pretty happy with that. If it's a quantum leap up from the 8x, which was already awesome, I cannot wait to get it back!

Compare that to a 6 month old CD8X costing £588 to upgrade compared to £300 previously. Now that is taking the proverbial, particularly given my post above.
 

Ravey Gravey Davy

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
225
3
18,795
Visit site
Andrew Everard:

With respect, it might possibly have been 'disgusting' - your word, not mine - if the company hadn't bothered to respond.

Try asking Ford if they can rebuild your old Fiesta into a brand-new model and see how far it gets you.

If you think the pricing is a rip-off - and it seems from recent forum postings that just about everything in the world is nowadays - then don't bother having it done, simple as that. Ditch your old player on ebay and buy a new CD8SE - that'll teach the profiteering baskits a lesson.

Power to the people! Freedom for Tooting! Etc...

Please Andrew - not 2 nights on the trot- I want to watch the football
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It does seem a tad pricey for what amounts to half a days work and some soak testing! i can strip a server do diag's do a componant level repair if required and rebuild in an hour or two! i know a server isnt a cd player but there isnt much too your average cdp. although im not claiming to know excactly whats involved in the upgrade so maybe im wrong in which case ill shut up.
 

Messiah

Well-known member
To be fair to Cyrus I can see where they are coming from. I am gutted that the price has increased but there you go. There has been a very fair explanation for this and at the end of the day it still offers (I believe) value for money. How many other manufactures offer an upgrade path?? It will still be cheaper to upgrade the player when funds allow instead of trying to sell a player at a monthly decreasing price and buy a new one!!

So whilst I am gutted at the price hike I am glad that it is there as an option and good to see an honest and quick reply by Cyrus. So Well Done to them!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Dear Mr Everard

You are missing the point and being a little disingenuous. When Ford sell you a Fiesta that is about to be replaced by a new model, they don't tell you that you can upgrade it later to the new model for a certain price and then suddenly double that price without warning. Cyrus announced the upgrade prices a year ago and they were pitched at a level such that numerous people continued to buy Cyrus CD players that they knew were going to be replaced by new models, safe in the knowledge that they could subsequently upgrade them without a great financial penalty. This ensured Cyrus continued to sell CD players when people might otherwise have delayed their purchase or even chosen another brand. How many people would have paid £1000 (or even £800) for a new CD8X six months ago if the published upgrade price had been £588?

Cyrus have only been performing these upgrades for two months now and during that time there have been further delays and numerous reports of problems. As far as I'm aware nobody buying a new CD8X was told that they would only have a two month window in which to have it upgraded for £300 before the price would double. I know of at least one person who was without their CD player for over six weeks waiting for it to be upgraded so, like many others, I have been waiting for the dust to settle and the lead times to become reasonable before sending my CD8X for upgrade. If I had known about this increase I would have been happy to book an upgrade slot last week and pay in advance, even if I had to wait a few months for the upgrade slot to become available.

I'm afraid Mr Bartlett's explanation of the increases being due to underestimating the amount of labour involved doesn't add up. The cost of upgrading a CD8X to CD8SE spec has gone from £300 to £588, a 96% increase. The cost of upgrading a CD6 to CD8SE spec, presumably a more labour intensive process, appears to have only increased by 27% (£550 to £700). I have been buying Cyrus kit since 1995 and currently use 5 of their black boxes in my system and, as Mr Barlett says, their upgrade policy has (previously) been one of their attractions. I'm afraid this business has left a bitter taste in my mouth and I will not be paying £588 to upgrade my CD8X or putting it on eBay and buying a new SE from my dealer. Moreover, when I upgrade the CD player or any other part of my system I'm unlikely to look at Cyrus in future. If Mr Bartlett cares to take a look at the relevant thread on the forum of cyrusunofficial.co.uk he will find numerous longstanding and previously loyal Cyrus owners that feel the same.
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
This is getting ridiculous. Why should Cyrus continue to shoulder losses on the costs of upgrading CD players? Hi-fi manufacturers (and dealers for that matter) are not there to simply break even. They are businesses that need to make money. Breaking even is a complete and utter waste of time, whilst making a loss leads to only one thing - closure. The company offer an upgrade path that other manufacturer's don't and they have responded in detail to the allegations levelled against them.

The frequent references to the so-called credit crunch in posts on these forums seem to be used as some sort of basis for expecting those in the hi-fi and AV industries to suddenly start doing everything without any view to making profits or succeeding as businesses. That is absolutely nonsensical.

Hi-fi and AV equipment has never offered such great value for money as it does at present. The quality that you get in a £170 amp like the NAD C315BEE, £130 speakers like the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s, or a £500 32" TV like the Sony KDL-32V4000 (for example) is astonishing compared to what the same money has bought in the past and I don't see evidence on anyone being 'ripped off'.

In Cyrus we are talking about a relatively small British company that has worked incredibly hard to reach the very top of the hi-fi industry. They have made fantastic equipment for years and it always represents exceptional value for the quality of performance on offer. Just hope that with all the ridiculous pressure on these companies to offer more and more for less and less money, they survive long term and continue to produce hi-fi gear which provides such a fulfilling musical experience to so many listeners.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Price difference between the 2 models + labour costs ------------> latest model

I fail to see how this is not a good deal. (for any Cyrus devotees anyway). Densen do the same. Like what has been said in the posts before - Selling on ebay and buying a new model costs ALOT more. To have the chance to upgrade your actual existing CDP is a massive advantage over those owning brands where upgradability is not an option!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
5
0
Visit site
Hughes123:This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?

Careful, you might set AndrewEverard off again. He seems to be on a retailer/manufacturer protection crusade. He also seems to forget where his bread n' butter comes from and that all those dealers/manufacturers/publications are here only because of one reason ... us, the punters.

I'm somewhat tired of being told we owe these companies and retailers. We don't, its as simple as that.
 

Ravey Gravey Davy

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2008
225
3
18,795
Visit site
Ho hum- and I so wanted to watch the football rather than have a second night prole bashing and brown nosing.
emotion-7.gif
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
540
5
0
Visit site
Ravey Gravey Davy:
Ho hum- and I so wanted to watch the football rather than have a second night prole bashing and brown nosing.
emotion-7.gif


Why change a habit ... ?
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
drummerman:
Hughes123:This reminds me when I asked Arcam how much the CD73 would cost to upgrade to CD192 status. The reply was £450...hmmm....double the price of the original product when I can buy the CD192 for £450 new anyway?

Careful, you might set AndrewEverard off again. He seems to be on a retailer/manufacturer protection crusade. He also seems to forget where his bread n' butter comes from and that all those dealers/manufacturers/publications are here only because of one reason ... us, the punters.

I'm somewhat tired of being told we owe these companies and retailers. We don't, its as simple as that.

No drummerman. The simple fact is this. The customer deserves a quality product, supported by excellent customer service at a fair and reasonable price. That fair and reasonable price can only be set by taking into account the costs of producing and distributing the product and the need for both manufacturer and retailer to survive as a business, a need which can only be fulfilled by there being some profit in the equation. Without profit business is a waste of time.

Nobody is suggesting that the consumer owes manufacturers or retailers anything. They have to succeed or die on the basis of how effectively they balance the product quality, customer service and pricing. However, it is naive and completely wrong to expect that the manufacturers and retailers somehow owe consumers the right to get higher and higher quality both in terms of product and customer service/support without paying a price that allows those companies to thrive and feed further developments in technology and customer service.

It is, of course, true that the manufacturers and retailers only exist because of their customers, but with too many customers like your good self, many of them won't exist into the future. Also remember that if the manufacturers and retailers hadn't invested time, talent and money into developing and distributing the product, the consumer desire wouldn't be there anyway. What Hi-Fi exists because of the consumers AND the manufacturers/retailers. Without a product there wouldn't be a market and without a market there wouldn't be a product.

Simple as that.
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts