can anybody tell me what i need for clean power i have already been informed that my anitial thought of a spike protector was the way but someone has infomed me different???
clean power
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Big Aura
Well-known member
cheaply? buy a tacima power block. fancy spending more - give your credit card to Mr Russ Andrews...
perrydave50:can anybody tell me what i need for clean power i have already been informed that my anitial thought of a spike protector was the way but someone has infomed me different???
You could check out the hot deal thread , good offer on conditioner /protector
You could check out the hot deal thread , good offer on conditioner /protector
I read on here about installing a dedicated mains line to your System room. This was the recommended best value option.
[No idea about the technicalities of this]
[No idea about the technicalities of this]
a 2nd fuse board just for your av equipment,this wil have its own earth a clean earth.try and run this circuit on its own path away from other cables you could also use a tacima on this.i would go for a 6mm radial circuit.
this should give you good results for the money if you have heavy apliances near your system you could put filters onto these devices also to stop any noise being picked up.
this should give you good results for the money if you have heavy apliances near your system you could put filters onto these devices also to stop any noise being picked up.
perrydave50:can anybody tell me what i need for clean power i have already been informed that my anitial thought of a spike protector was the way but someone has infomed me different???
Dedicated mains spur
Balanced mains transformer
Mains conitioning unit (Be aware that most 'strangle' amplifiers)
Some mains cables reduce RFI
Dedicated mains spur
Balanced mains transformer
Mains conitioning unit (Be aware that most 'strangle' amplifiers)
Some mains cables reduce RFI
and a properly designed power supply within the unit being "powered" should be able to reject RFI and the other usual variations in the incoming power supply which to some degree renders the whole clean power supply issue well hmmm in most circumstances a non issue.
Think we perhaps are all guilty to a degree of getting a bit too anal and could usefully relax and just enjoy the music. Course if you want to get very very anal buy a turntable that'll give you so much more to agonise over
Enjoy the music
Think we perhaps are all guilty to a degree of getting a bit too anal and could usefully relax and just enjoy the music. Course if you want to get very very anal buy a turntable that'll give you so much more to agonise over
Enjoy the music
2oldnslow:
and a properly designed power supply within the unit being "powered" should be able to reject RFI and the other usual variations in the incoming power supply which to some degree renders the whole clean power supply issue well hmmm in most circumstances a non issue.
Think we perhaps are all guilty to a degree of getting a bit too anal and could usefully relax and just enjoy the music. Course if you want to get very very anal buy a turntable that'll give you so much more to agonise over
Enjoy the music
I have an amp and pre amp which have pretty big transformers in them. Even though they do ive had success with mains cables, a sigmas conditioner and in particular my balanced mains transformer which pretty much makes YOUR argument redundant
and a properly designed power supply within the unit being "powered" should be able to reject RFI and the other usual variations in the incoming power supply which to some degree renders the whole clean power supply issue well hmmm in most circumstances a non issue.
Think we perhaps are all guilty to a degree of getting a bit too anal and could usefully relax and just enjoy the music. Course if you want to get very very anal buy a turntable that'll give you so much more to agonise over
Enjoy the music
I have an amp and pre amp which have pretty big transformers in them. Even though they do ive had success with mains cables, a sigmas conditioner and in particular my balanced mains transformer which pretty much makes YOUR argument redundant
Simply a point of view based on 40 years experiance as an avionics engineer (and believe me left to their own devices aircraft are amazingly noisy electrrical enviroments). And I think you'll find I said most (not all) circumstances but hey if it works for you great
By the way you can have as big as mains transformer as you like it'll do nothing for RFI rejection but lets not go there.
The point I was trying to make was in most cases what comes into your house is going to be perfectly adequate. Problems if the exist are more often than not best dealt with by a qualified electrician (as indeed you suggest with your references to dedicated spurs etc) rather than over priced mains cables.
The point I was trying to make was in most cases what comes into your house is going to be perfectly adequate. Problems if the exist are more often than not best dealt with by a qualified electrician (as indeed you suggest with your references to dedicated spurs etc) rather than over priced mains cables.
2oldnslow:
By the way you can have as big as mains transformer as you like it'll do nothing for RFI rejection but lets not go there.
Im happy to go there
Ive a meter that measures RFI. When I measure what comes OUT of the balanced mains unit (Which is only a big toroidal transformer, albeit changing to balanced), the RFI has been pretty much eliminated
How does that work then if it has 'nothing' to do with removal of RFI?
By the way you can have as big as mains transformer as you like it'll do nothing for RFI rejection but lets not go there.
Im happy to go there
Ive a meter that measures RFI. When I measure what comes OUT of the balanced mains unit (Which is only a big toroidal transformer, albeit changing to balanced), the RFI has been pretty much eliminated
How does that work then if it has 'nothing' to do with removal of RFI?
Really can't see the value in arguing the point Erik so I'll let you have the "last word" and as I previously said if it works for you well great. Whether or not I think it's more to do with the placebo effect matters not one bit your money your system your choice.
I seem to recall saying that in my opinion any properly designed power supply within a soundly engineered product will reject RFI to a degree that in most circumstances renders additional devices surplus to requirements. That presumably is what is happening inside what you referred to as the balanced mains unit which in all probability includes a low-pass EMI/filter of some kind.
Whether or not you can measure a reduction in RFI is largely irrelevant at least if the ASA ruling against the famous Russ Andrews advert is to be believed.
I seem to recall saying that in my opinion any properly designed power supply within a soundly engineered product will reject RFI to a degree that in most circumstances renders additional devices surplus to requirements. That presumably is what is happening inside what you referred to as the balanced mains unit which in all probability includes a low-pass EMI/filter of some kind.
Whether or not you can measure a reduction in RFI is largely irrelevant at least if the ASA ruling against the famous Russ Andrews advert is to be believed.
There was no placebo in effect when I needed to turn the sharpness on my sony tv from +3 to zero (Only due to fitting the balanced mains transformer and after a few days 'run in' time). The transformer doesnt have any EMI filter in. It was built to MY spec
Dont cry, all sceptics claim a placebo is in effect when they dont believe something
Dont cry, all sceptics claim a placebo is in effect when they dont believe something
Don't cry my my I doubt it will come to that I'll just remain a happy sceptic. And on that note I'll go and do something useful like watch the Vuelta final stage.
chebby
Well-known member
2oldnslow:Really can't see the value in arguing the point Erik so I'll let you have the "last word"
That didn't go so well did it?
That didn't go so well did it?
2oldnslow:Don't cry my my I doubt it will come to that I'll just remain a happy sceptic.
A happy sceptic with his head in the sand
A happy sceptic with his head in the sand
chebby
Well-known member
aliEnRIK: Dont cry, all sceptics claim a placebo is in effect when they dont believe something
"Don't Cry"?!
I can't really see anywhere where 2oldnslow is 'crying' or getting worked up at all? He's just giving his opinion, not everyone has such a passion for power cables. I mostly agree with what he's saying, especially...
2oldnslow:Think we perhaps are all guilty to a degree of getting a bit too anal and could usefully relax and just enjoy the music.
"Don't Cry"?!
2oldnslow:Think we perhaps are all guilty to a degree of getting a bit too anal and could usefully relax and just enjoy the music.
bigblue235:
"Don't Cry"?!
I can't really see anywhere where 2oldnslow is 'crying' or getting worked up at all? He's just giving his opinion, not everyone has such a passion for power cables. I mostly agree with what he's saying, especially...
He came on as the big 'I AM' and because my own tests disprove his placebo theory (Measureably using a test disc) he didnt like it
I dont have a passion for cables. I just like to get to the truth.
Sceptics are blinded by their sheer belief in themselves.
I believe in science and testing and im fully aware of the power of placebo (Weve ALL been taken in by the placebo effect at some point in our lives)
But sure, I love my music too
"Don't Cry"?!
He came on as the big 'I AM' and because my own tests disprove his placebo theory (Measureably using a test disc) he didnt like it
I dont have a passion for cables. I just like to get to the truth.
Sceptics are blinded by their sheer belief in themselves.
I believe in science and testing and im fully aware of the power of placebo (Weve ALL been taken in by the placebo effect at some point in our lives)
But sure, I love my music too
chebby
Well-known member
aliEnRIK:...my own tests disprove his placebo theory (Measureably using a test disc) he didnt like it
I dont have a passion for cables. I just like to get to the truth.
Sceptics are blinded by their sheer belief in themselves.
I believe in science and testing and im fully aware of the power of placebo
A 'sceptic' is your stock label for anyone who disagrees with you and you have rather diluted it's impact of late.
Your tests are not 'scientific' unless they are conducted in a controlled environment, peer reviewed, published, and able to be replicated by anyone to get the same results. Preferably measured results as well as confirmation by a disinterested 'blind' listening panel. (Not your mates.)
I wish you wouldn't use the word 'scientific' to describe some of your findings. One of your 'studys' or experiments I remember in particular. It took place in a friend-of-a-friends flat, and your 'panel' were a group of your mates, and part of the 'evidence' was that some light fittings shook! Absolutely nothing about your 'scientific' method could be replicated or was measured or even witnessed by an independent person.
To you 'scientific' means... "well I heard it - and my mates heard it too - so if you don't get it then you are a sceptic and deaf"
It's a good job advances in pharmaceuticals and aircraft and computers are not developed in the same way.
I can't imagine Isaac Newton's 'Principia' concluding with... "My mum saw it so you can all shut up!"
I dont have a passion for cables. I just like to get to the truth.
Sceptics are blinded by their sheer belief in themselves.
I believe in science and testing and im fully aware of the power of placebo
A 'sceptic' is your stock label for anyone who disagrees with you and you have rather diluted it's impact of late.
Your tests are not 'scientific' unless they are conducted in a controlled environment, peer reviewed, published, and able to be replicated by anyone to get the same results. Preferably measured results as well as confirmation by a disinterested 'blind' listening panel. (Not your mates.)
I wish you wouldn't use the word 'scientific' to describe some of your findings. One of your 'studys' or experiments I remember in particular. It took place in a friend-of-a-friends flat, and your 'panel' were a group of your mates, and part of the 'evidence' was that some light fittings shook! Absolutely nothing about your 'scientific' method could be replicated or was measured or even witnessed by an independent person.
To you 'scientific' means... "well I heard it - and my mates heard it too - so if you don't get it then you are a sceptic and deaf"
It's a good job advances in pharmaceuticals and aircraft and computers are not developed in the same way.
I can't imagine Isaac Newton's 'Principia' concluding with... "My mum saw it so you can all shut up!"
chebby:aliEnRIK:...my own tests disprove his placebo theory (Measureably using a test disc) he didnt like it
I dont have a passion for cables. I just like to get to the truth.
Sceptics are blinded by their sheer belief in themselves.
I believe in science and testing and im fully aware of the power of placebo
A 'sceptic' is your stock label for anyone who disagrees with you and you have rather diluted it's impact of late.
Your tests are not 'scientific' unless they are conducted in a controlled environment, peer reviewed, published, and able to be replicated by anyone to get the same results. Preferably measured results as well as confirmation by a disinterested 'blind' listening panel. (Not your mates.)
I wish you wouldn't use the word 'scientific' to describe some of your findings. One of your 'studys' or experiments I remember in particular. It took place in a friend-of-a-friends flat, and your 'panel' were a group of your mates, and part of the 'evidence' was that some light fittings shook! Absolutely nothing about your 'scientific' method could be replicated or was measured or even witnessed by an independent person.
To you 'scientific' means... "well I heard it - and my mates heard it too - so if you don't get it then you are a sceptic and deaf"
It's a good job advances in pharmaceuticals and aircraft and computers are not developed in the same way.
I can't imagine Isaac Newton's 'Principia' concluding with... "My mum saw it so you can all shut up!"
What words do you wish me to use Chebby?
I dont have a passion for cables. I just like to get to the truth.
Sceptics are blinded by their sheer belief in themselves.
I believe in science and testing and im fully aware of the power of placebo
A 'sceptic' is your stock label for anyone who disagrees with you and you have rather diluted it's impact of late.
Your tests are not 'scientific' unless they are conducted in a controlled environment, peer reviewed, published, and able to be replicated by anyone to get the same results. Preferably measured results as well as confirmation by a disinterested 'blind' listening panel. (Not your mates.)
I wish you wouldn't use the word 'scientific' to describe some of your findings. One of your 'studys' or experiments I remember in particular. It took place in a friend-of-a-friends flat, and your 'panel' were a group of your mates, and part of the 'evidence' was that some light fittings shook! Absolutely nothing about your 'scientific' method could be replicated or was measured or even witnessed by an independent person.
To you 'scientific' means... "well I heard it - and my mates heard it too - so if you don't get it then you are a sceptic and deaf"
It's a good job advances in pharmaceuticals and aircraft and computers are not developed in the same way.
I can't imagine Isaac Newton's 'Principia' concluding with... "My mum saw it so you can all shut up!"
What words do you wish me to use Chebby?
Personally I think enough's been said - by all - already.
This is descending (predictably) into a slanging match - please proceed peacefully or posts will be deleted and/or thread locked. Thanks!
This is descending (predictably) into a slanging match - please proceed peacefully or posts will be deleted and/or thread locked. Thanks!
With regards to Russ Andrews reducing RFI in the mains using their mains cables ~
Although it cant be found online (At least ive never found it, though I have a copy at home), Ben Duncan then went on to prove that reducing RFI INTO an amplifier (They used one around the 800 quid mark. Forgets the name), it 'measureably' lowers the 'noise floor'
People measure the noise floor to test amps all the time.
How the sceptics just brush this under the carpet ill never know..........
Although it cant be found online (At least ive never found it, though I have a copy at home), Ben Duncan then went on to prove that reducing RFI INTO an amplifier (They used one around the 800 quid mark. Forgets the name), it 'measureably' lowers the 'noise floor'
People measure the noise floor to test amps all the time.
How the sceptics just brush this under the carpet ill never know..........
Big Aura
Well-known member
I haven't visited the forum that much in recent months. I've been too busy listening to my equipment among other things but I must "come out" (so to speak) in support of aliEnRIK. I bought a balanced mains transformer earlier this year and noticed a big improvement at the time. I've been troubled with something making my equipment sound quite harsh on occasion. The transformer reduced it dramatically.
Recently I tried disconnecting it in the hope I would hear no difference because I want to buy a new headphone amp and selling the transformer would help fund it. I would love to have been proved wrong about the transformer because I really want this headphone amp.
Reconnecting everything with the transformer out of the loop was an unpleasant experience. The transformer is doing a darn good job of removing a harshness or grain in the sound and bringing out detail that I couldn't hear before. Maybe my mains supply is particularly poor, I don't know. What I do know is that I don't need fancy tests to prove it to me. It works!
Recently I tried disconnecting it in the hope I would hear no difference because I want to buy a new headphone amp and selling the transformer would help fund it. I would love to have been proved wrong about the transformer because I really want this headphone amp.
Reconnecting everything with the transformer out of the loop was an unpleasant experience. The transformer is doing a darn good job of removing a harshness or grain in the sound and bringing out detail that I couldn't hear before. Maybe my mains supply is particularly poor, I don't know. What I do know is that I don't need fancy tests to prove it to me. It works!
I don't intend to reignite the dispute, but having spent the afternoon in a seminar discussing the definition of the term 'science' I couldn't help but chip in. Arguably, at the very least, 'scientific' claims should be grounded in precisely measured empirical evidence; and once you introduce subjective value judgements -- like perceptions of improvements in sound and picture quality -- any claims become more contravertible.
Beyond semantic arguments, however, I think it's relatively straightforward: If you're happy with the results using mains cleaning products then that's great. I was sceptical myself, until a Tacima mains conditioner improved the stability of the picture on my plasma and sucked the life out of my receiver. Introducing the Tacima definitely produced changes (for both good and ill).
EDIT: that's just my non-scientific and potentially highly subjective opinion!
Beyond semantic arguments, however, I think it's relatively straightforward: If you're happy with the results using mains cleaning products then that's great. I was sceptical myself, until a Tacima mains conditioner improved the stability of the picture on my plasma and sucked the life out of my receiver. Introducing the Tacima definitely produced changes (for both good and ill).
EDIT: that's just my non-scientific and potentially highly subjective opinion!
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