Classical Music Hi-Fi System c. £600

[tomayresss]

Hi there,

I'm posting in the hope that there are some classical music enthusiasts here who can help me out

I'd like to set up a budget Hi-Fi system, consisting of an integrated amp, speakers and either a CD-player or a USB Dac like the CA DACMagic.

I realise that the only way to tell what I like in the end will be to do some auditioning however I'm just looking for amp/speaker suggestions really. I'm looking to spend no more than £600 on three components, divided up whichever way you think is best.

I listen to a wide range of classical music from solo instrumentalists to large-scale orchestral works, however the majority of my listening is to chamber music (ie. string quartets etc.).

I've heard recommendations all over the place for speakers (Wharf 9.1s/Mordaunt/Tannoy F1/Monitor BR2) and amps (Marantz/Yamaha/Nad all circa £250), but I'm hoping to get some trusty opinions from some people here and that would be a great help.

Thanks a lot in advance,

Tom Ayres.

 

[ElectroMan]

Hi,

I can't make any suggestions myself, but Andrew Everard on these forums is the Audio Editor of the Gramophone, so he would likely be able to help.

You could also look at the Gramophone archive to search for equipment reviews - though it might take you some time to trawl through them all!

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Tom

I was in a similar situation to yours very recently, and I hope that these thoughts might be of help:

I found that for classical music the most important thing to avoid is brightness. By contrast, detail and stereo imaging are very important. Now, in the price class you're looking at, compromises will need to be made (I certainly had to!). If you are willing to go for second-hand on Ebay or from a local dealer, you will vastly increase your choice. If I were you, I would avoid budget Marantz and go for something warmer. If you are willing to go second-hand, Arcam might be a good idea. For speakers, I have the Mordaunt Short 902is and like them, but - again - be cautious of partnering them with a bright amplifier. If you gert a warm-ish one, they will be perfect. Great value for money!

Others will be able to advise on the intricate differences between DacMagics and Beresfords...

I hope this helps.

Hedgehog

 

[Anonymous]

tomayresss:
Hi there,

I'm posting in the hope that there are some classical music enthusiasts here who can help me out

I'd like to set up a budget Hi-Fi system, consisting of an integrated amp, speakers and either a CD-player or a USB Dac like the CA DACMagic.

I realise that the only way to tell what I like in the end will be to do some auditioning however I'm just looking for amp/speaker suggestions really. I'm looking to spend no more than £600 on three components, divided up whichever way you think is best.

I listen to a wide range of classical music from solo instrumentalists to large-scale orchestral works, however the majority of my listening is to chamber music (ie. string quartets etc.).

I've heard recommendations all over the place for speakers (Wharf 9.1s/Mordaunt/Tannoy F1/Monitor BR2) and amps (Marantz/Yamaha/Nad all circa £250), but I'm hoping to get some trusty opinions from some people here and that would be a great help.

Thanks a lot in advance,

Tom Ayres.

For classical you might be better off going for a Musical Fidelity v-dac rather than the Dacmagic if you choose the dac option - really seems suited for classical. Certainly as far as amps go the Marantz or the Nad will be fine, but I haven't heard the Yamahas.

Speakers will be the problem. I'm inclined to think secondhand might be the answer - if you can find some Tannoy 6xx speakers at a good price, or some older KEFs or some Royds, assuming you can find them.

 

[matthewpiano]

At this price level either Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s or Quad 11Ls would be the best speakers for classical music. The Quads are slightly more expensive (£230 or thereabouts online) but you could go for a second hand pair of the original 11L (as opposed to the current 11L2) like I did for about £150. At that price they are an absolute steal and can easily compete with speakers up to £500.

Amplifier wise, I have come to swear by the Pioneer A400 for all types of music (including extensive classical stuff) but if you prefer a slightly warmer sound I'd be looking at a NAD C325BEE (probably 2nd hand now) or something like an Arcam Alpha 8. Avoid the entry level Arcam DiVA amps like the A70 and A65+ because they are flat and uninspiring.

If you go for a CD player I'd recommend a Cambridge Audio 640C. I don't think you can beat if for the money. If you are feeling more brave (and take care choosing) a secondhand Marantz CD63 MkII KI-Signature will blow anything you could get new out of the water.

 

[ElectroMan]

Sorry matthewpiano, I forgot about you!

 

[Anonymous]

I mostly listen to classical music and jazz. Don't buy a cd player. Go with the dacmagic. In terms of amps and speakers I would spend weeks (it'll be worth it in the end) looking for a second hand integrated or pre/power combination Naim amplification. I'd buy some Linn Kans which are always available on the well known auction site. A poster on here said the dacmagic beat a £900 cd player he auditioned. so say £230 for dacmagic, £175 for Linn Kans, and look for used Naim amplification. Or a second hand Exposure amp which partner the Linn Kans well.

 

[tomayresss]

Thanks guys that's loads of help so far. I'm quite happy to go down the second hand route via that well known auction site - the downside obviously is the lack of auditioning but I have a lot of confidence in the advice given here.

More suggestions very welcome Am currently looking into everything that's been said so far which is great.

Anyone else think that I should go for the Musical Fid for the DAC instead of the CA?

Edit: The problem I have is the number of choices available to me already....there are Arcam Alpha 8s, Naim amps, Pioneer A400s....it's hard for me to decide which route to take.

 

[cse]

I only listen to classical as well and can reiterate that brightness is what destroys listening pleasure. To get gret sound that you can listen to for long periods you need to spend a little bit more money or buy second hand. Quad is definately the make to go for, especially second hand, with Spendor speakers. Avoid Marantz and Cyrus.. Arcam are also worth considering, also Linn. Many components that impress initially become very wearisome when listening over longer periods, especially with string recordings. The quality of the CD recording itself also makes a tremendous difference. I'm regularly getting rid of CD'S that I can no longer bare the sound of.

 

[Anonymous]

Choices, choices .. I know that feeling. I totally agree brightness can be a killer, while clarity, detail and imaging is essential whether listening to small scale works or large scale pieces.

You said: "a budget Hi-Fi system, consisting of an integrated amp, speakers and either a CD-player or a USB Dac like the CA DACMagic". But what would be your source if you go the DAC route?

I've combined my PC with the latest Beresford DAC (modded with LM4562 op amps) and a pair of s/hand AVI Neutron 3 speakers for what I suppose you'd call a desktop system. For the moment I've using my old Rotel RA-820BX3 for the amp. I have Rotel RA-01 as well, but have been thinking of finding something warmer, or taking a shot in the dark with an energy efficient tripath amp like the Trends audio TA-10.1 or the UK made Bantam T-amp for Temple Audio.

I picked the B-DAC above the CA on price and it has a very good headphone stage. And it was easily modded. It is deservedly popular and sound reproduction via it's USB input is very good and on par with the optical and coax inputs. Great levels of detail with a good sound stage from this DAC.

I chose the AVI speakers in favour of QUAD 11L based on their size and use in a small listening room. Like the QUAD speakers the AVI Neutron is regarded as a accurate, detailed and neutral. Both appear fairly frequently in the s/hand market.

So my vote for speakers is the Quad 11L, or possibly the AVI Neutron 3 or later model (the earlier NuNeutron is harder to drive). I'd choose a Beresford DAC TC-7520 above the up-sampling CA or MF V-DAC, based on its flexibility, price and design.

Amplifier choice is more open, but not infinite, for your budget.

Anyway back to J.S,Bach (Playing the re-release on DAS ALTE WERK of Hanoncourt's 1967 recording of the 4 Orchestral Suites. Interesting to compare this with Pierre Hantai's recording of suites 1 &4).!--
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[chebby]

BrightSpark:I've combined my PC with the latest Beresford DAC (modded with LM4562 op amps).....

.....I picked the B-DAC above the CA on price and it has a very good headphone stage. And it was easily modded. It is deservedly popular and sound reproduction via it's USB input is very good and on par with the optical and coax inputs. Great levels of detail with a good sound stage from this DAC....

....I'd choose a Beresford DAC TC-7520 above the up-sampling CA or MF V-DAC, based on its flexibility, price and design.

I completely agree with this choice of DAC (see my signature) and I do listen to a lot of classical.

(I even have the same LM4562NA opamp upgrade which improved imaging.)

ps BrightSpark. Do you have the new TC-7520 power supply? I got mine for £20 after emailling Beresford last week. This one....

http://www.beresford.me/UK/images/PSU.jpg

 

[matthewpiano]

I've been listening to classical music all morning and its prompted me to give the Quad 11Ls another push here. They are just incredible speakers. So balanced and musical sounding with just the right amounts of refinement and attack and not a hint of brightness. I believe these original ones are better than the 11L2s as well - so a good excuse to save some money by picking some up second hand.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm also a classical listener - and listen to a lot of baroque music, which is particularly hard on the ears if a system is too bright.

Our main system is an arcam amp FMJ A32 (after much thinking & help on the forum from matthewpiano, joelsim & others I ditched the A70 & am now a very happy camper) & quad 22L2s - I'm listening to cd's I haven't listened to for years - I feel the equipment disappears & I"m just hearing the music. So I"d recommend the Quad speakers, although I would be careful with amp matching - I think you would want something on the warm side. The Quad 22L2s certainly seem to suck up power, I don't know about the 11Ls. But I'm getting as much pleasure from our "2nd system" which is a NAD C352 & wharfedale diamond 9.1s. While the Arcam/Quad system is more refined with better soundstage & imaging, the NAD/Wharfies is muscular & just, well, joyful - so while I don't get the amount of detail it's just a thoroughly musical & enjoyable listen.

Listening at the moment to the lovely, late, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson singing Handel arias (with a whisky or two - it's 10.30 pm downunder) - what a loss she is to the musical world.

 

[Anonymous]

If you can get a pair of 2nd hand Roger speakers off flee bay you will not do better.

So nice with classical music as you would expect from a BBC monitor design.

Also have a think of Quad for amplification, really good build quality. The 33/303 is a classic, regarded as a reference amp by many.

 

[chebby]

trevor79:If you can get a pair of 2nd hand Roger speakers off flee bay you will not do better.

So nice with classical music as you would expect from a BBC monitor design.

You are joking surely?

The OP has a £600 budget. Any pair of used Rogers BBC LS3/5A will cost anything up to £1500 on the 'bay if they are still working and look half decent!

In fact the best way into LS3/5A right now is a brand new pair of Stirling Broadcast BBC LS3/5A V2's which are only about £850 - £900 (including VAT)

With used BBC monitors - especially on ebay - you will be fighting a whole gang of determined (fanatical) collectors.

[Edit] Just checked LS3/5A's on ebay and the cheapest ones are £690 for a Spendor pair with scratches, stains and drill holes and peeling drivers! There are some Harbeth ones for £1250 on 'Buy it now' and a pair of minty Rogers that are about to hit £800 with 3 days left to go!

 

[Anonymous]

Chebby,

To answer your question about B-Dac psu, I'm still using the old style psu it came with. Is there any real difference in sound between the two supplies.?

New style will allow the use of your own fig8 lead, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in the so-called benefits of stuff like screened leads etc.

Both supplies use switched mode designs, and it's hard to know which, if either of the two, produces less noise on the 12V DC. Nor do I know what level of DC noise is detremental to the DAC's performance. If the new PSU is more engery efficient then it may be worth considering for that fact alone.

 

[Anonymous]

Rogers LS6a speakers on at the moment, should get them for less than £200.
Also some Rogers LS2a/2 bookshelf Speakers which might be just what he is looking for.

Oh and Quad 306 Power Amp/Quad 34 Control Unit Combo. Or a Quad 33 / 303 Amplifier Pair, with decent mods to it, 1 owner from new.

Now put them together and it will be a very nice system, and he will get his money back if he sells them.

 

[chebby]

BrightSpark:
Chebby,

To answer your question about B-Dac psu, I'm still using the old style psu it came with. Is there any real difference in sound between the two supplies.?

New style will allow the use of your own fig8 lead, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in the so-called benefits of stuff like screened leads etc.

Yes I have pressed my old TCM connections fig-8 lead back into service. Seemed silly not to.

I bought the (standard from now on) TC-7520 PSU because that is the one originally designed for it, rather than the TC-7510 'plug-top' that came with mine. (I ordered my TC-7520 a few days before it was an 'official' Beresford product. My total expenditure - DAC + new PSU still comes to about the correct current price and they didn't ask for the old PSU back

)

 

[chebby]

trevor79:Rogers LS6a speakers on at the moment, should get them for less than £200.
Also some Rogers LS2a/2 bookshelf Speakers which might be just what he is looking for.

Oh and Quad 306 Power Amp/Quad 34 Control Unit Combo. Or a Quad 33 / 303 Amplifier Pair, with decent mods to it, 1 owner from new.

Now put them together and it will be a very nice system, and he will get his money back if he sells them.

Rogers LS6a were never BBC monitor speakers and the BBC never issued an LS6 licence. It is unfortunate that some people are selling such speakers as if they were official BBC monitor designs.

The same goes for the LS2a/2. That was never a BBC design.

Both are - no doubt - good speakers but anyone selling them as BBC monitors are guilty of mis-selling. Whole different ballgame.

There are currently a number of designs on the market 'derived' from BBC monitor type thinking. (Harbeth and Spendor of course) but to my knowledge only one manufacturer (Stirling Broadcast) who are licensed by the BBC to put LS3/5A on their loudspeakers. (In this case it has been amended to a BBC LS3/5A V2 license.)

There is more to it than just a label. The cabinets are vastly more expensive to construct and have to satisfy every condition of the license in such a way that any one speaker can be 'dropped' into a pair (no matter who made them or when) of the matching type and impedance and sound identical. (There were 15 ohm and 11 ohm versions of the LS3/5A)

Even Spendor don't call their S3/5R speakers 'BBC monitors' despite them being very closely related in thinking and despite the company once being a BBC licensed manufacturer. (Same with Harbeth's HL-P3ES-2)

trevor79:If you can get a pair of 2nd hand Roger speakers off flee bay you will not do better. So nice with classical music as you would expect from a BBC monitor design.

I only point this out because Trevor79 made the comment about picking up cheap Rogers BBC monitors from ebay.

If they (a) work (b) are a proper BBC licenced monitor ... then there is no way you will get them inside a £600 system budget.

 

[Tibor]

Tannoy F 1 Customÿwithÿ Arcam Solo Mini orÿwith Nad C 515BEEplayer and Nad C 325 amp. Avoid bright budget electronics from Marantz, C. A.

 

[matthewpiano]

Just a word of caution to tag on to my previous postings. Be very careful with second hand CD players. I've had a couple of issues today that have put me off buying CD sources second hand. I'm not saying avoid it, but I'm starting to think that 10+ years old is just too old for a CD player.

 

[Anonymous]

chebby:
trevor79:If you can get a pair of 2nd hand Roger speakers off flee bay you will not do better.

So nice with classical music as you would expect from a BBC monitor design.

You are joking surely?

The OP has a £600 budget. Any pair of used Rogers BBC LS3/5A will cost anything up to £1500 on the 'bay if they are still working and look half decent!

In fact the best way into LS3/5A right now is a brand new pair of Stirling Broadcast BBC LS3/5A V2's which are only about £850 - £900 (including VAT)

With used BBC monitors - especially on ebay - you will be fighting a whole gang of determined (fanatical) collectors.

[Edit] Just checked LS3/5A's on ebay and the cheapest ones are £690 for a Spendor pair with scratches, stains and drill holes and peeling drivers! There are some Harbeth ones for £1250 on 'Buy it now' and a pair of minty Rogers that are about to hit £800 with 3 days left to go!

Some NOS LS3/5as were selling on ebay for £1500 buy it now. I've heard them (not that particular pair) and they really are beautiful speakers. Obviously the base is limited by size but with jazz music in particular they're hard to beat. I do feel though their price reflects their cult status and is slightly disproportionate to their value. I would like someone to take a blind test and tell the difference between them and some vintage 1985 Linn Kans.

 

[tomayresss]

Again this is great, but there's so much choice...

As this is my first hifi, would it be better to go for an integrated amp and go down the Arcam/NAD route, rather than getting a pre/power Naim/Quad combo.

Also, if I was to get something like a NAD C352 or something, would this be a good enough match for, say, Quad 11Ls?

 

[matthewpiano]

A NAD C352 sounds like a very good idea. The Quad 11Ls respond extremely well to an amplifier with power and drive and the NAD will provide that in spades. Match it up with a NAD CD player and I think you'd have an excellent system.

As others have said though, long listening sessions are imperative to getting this right so have some fun auditioning.

 

[tomayresss]

Does this seem like a cheap price for that to you?

Or is that not the way I should be going?