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Class A, A/B endangered species?

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manix

New member
May 31, 2016
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It's the cheapest way to get lots of watts out of a amplifier per pound spent. Hence Cyrus One is 100w channel compared to 40w channel for Cyrus 6a.

Don't kid yourself it's about the manufacturers wanting to save the earth it's purely money.

There is no problem with that if they can get good sound of cause. We can see steps being made forward for sure. Don't forget it has backfired on some manufacturers in the past. Rotel's multi channel power amps all went class D at one stage and suddenly went from being the darlings of the multi channel power amps to being hated. Result they went back to A/B.
 

Gazzip

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Jan 15, 2011
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DomCheetham said:
I have never listened to a class D amp, so I don't know. Don't get wrong I'm all for best performance to pound ratio, it's just my planet might not be make it too long, and we all die.
My amps heat my listening room to such an extent that the central heating hasn't come on in here more than once or twice in three years. I consider myself an environmental pioneer on this basis.

(The times it did come on I was running a Devialet 800)
 

Alberich

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Mar 15, 2016
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Seems the consensus is that A, A/B still has many years ahead of it.
May very well just become less common.

I suppose if the sh#t does hit the fan music playback will be least of our worries.
In a post-apocalyptic world you won't be an audiophile unless your gear looks like something out of Mad Max !
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
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18,545

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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18,795
The situation as I see it is that we (as in the human race) are going to keep burning fossil fuels until they have all gone. That may take 20, 50 or 100 years but it's almost certainly going to happen sooner or later.

The big question is not what we will use as an energy source in the future. We will find a way to cope with that one way or another. No IMO the big question is can the planet survive the pollution caused by burning all of the fossil fuels without passing a point of no return?
 

Alberich

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Mar 15, 2016
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Apparently space isn't a problem.
I read somewhere that if every human being on the planet stood shoulder to shoulder, we would all fit inside the city of Paris.

Now sustainably providing each and every one of us with the basic needs of food, shelter, medical care etc. is quite another thing.
If somehow we could manage that there's room for population increase.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2009
174
53
18,670
Some great thoughts above!

I frankly doubt things will change much in hifi, unless some more regulations demand it. In the scheme of things, the tiny number of hifi sets compared with the mind boggling number of computers and smartphones, means that our hobby makes no meaningful difference in power terms.

Class D audio has some good representatives, and some less good. Making something that sounds like the best of class A with the power of B is the 'holy grail'. Devialet seem to suggest that is their approach. It's amazing how many tube/valve designs seems to exist, but sales are presumably tiny.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
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Electro said:
Everybody could own a large class A amplifier without a hint of a guilty conscious if we were to take renewable energy with Hydrogen storage seriously .

The technology is fully developed and working NOW it just need the infrastucture to be expanded .

All power can be produced and stored locally and will only run out when our sun explodes.

Just imagine a solar hydrogen system on every roof or garden or on local council land backed up with small wind generators where space allows all making hydrogen 365 days a year, there would be a massive surplus, power would cease to be an issue and as a bonus it would be 99.99% pollution free with almost zero carbon emissions.

Before anyone mentions Zeppelins or explosions it is a proven fact that hydrogen is far safer to use than natural gas or any oil based fuels, did I mention zero pollution . *smile*

This system needs some refinement but you get the idea.

http://www.h-tec.com/fileadmin/content/edu/Lehrmaterialien/Transparencies.pdf

There is plenty more info if you want to find out more.

I apologize in advance to the people who are sick of me banging on about renewable hydrogen power. *smile
Electro,

Totally off-topic, but I felt I had to reply. Hydrogen is not a great solution. It is not a source of energy in itself, but a delivery mechanism - and a poor one at that. It has problems with storage, distribution, safety and efficiency.

Given the strides made with Lithium Ion batteries over the last few years, I would expect that we won't be talking about hydrogen and 'fool cells'* in 10 years time except perhaps esoteric applications like spacecraft.

*Quote attributed to Elon Musk, who seems to know a thing or two about renewable energy and energy storage.
 

luckylion100

New member
Nov 6, 2011
72
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0
Alberich said:
Apparently space isn't a problem. I read somewhere that if every human being on the planet stood shoulder to shoulder, we would all fit inside the city of Paris.

Now sustainably providing each and every one of us with the basic needs of food, shelter, medical care etc. is quite another thing. If somehow we could manage that there's room for population increase.
No need to worry about energy efficent amps, greater enviromental issues or over population my friends the NWO is on to that already! They have a grand scheme in place to eradicate all these concerns...

Hundreds of empty FEMA camps waiting to be filled, a shoot to kill policy in the US by a police force turning on its own civilian population. Walmarts being turned into processing stations, 30;000 guillotines in storage... oh how I must stop watching Youtube! ;-)
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
16
2
0
According to what I've seen on TV; apparently there's going to be some sort of zombie apocalypse. That'll sort out the population vs planetary resource issue.

There will, however, be a shortage of medieval suits of armour.
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
andyjm said:
Electro said:
Everybody could own a large class A amplifier without a hint of a guilty conscious if we were to take renewable energy with Hydrogen storage seriously .

The technology is fully developed and working NOW it just need the infrastucture to be expanded .

All power can be produced and stored locally and will only run out when our sun explodes.

Just imagine a solar hydrogen system on every roof or garden or on local council land backed up with small wind generators where space allows all making hydrogen 365 days a year, there would be a massive surplus, power would cease to be an issue and as a bonus it would be 99.99% pollution free with almost zero carbon emissions.

Before anyone mentions Zeppelins or explosions it is a proven fact that hydrogen is far safer to use than natural gas or any oil based fuels, did I mention zero pollution . *smile*

This system needs some refinement but you get the idea.

http://www.h-tec.com/fileadmin/content/edu/Lehrmaterialien/Transparencies.pdf

There is plenty more info if you want to find out more.

I apologize in advance to the people who are sick of me banging on about renewable hydrogen power. *smile
Electro,

Totally off-topic, but I felt I had to reply. Hydrogen is not a great solution. It is not a source of energy in itself, but a delivery mechanism - and a poor one at that. It has problems with storage, distribution, safety and efficiency.

Given the strides made with Lithium Ion batteries over the last few years, I would expect that we won't be talking about hydrogen and 'fool cells'* in 10 years time except perhaps esoteric applications like spacecraft.

*Quote attributed to Elon Musk, who seems to know a thing or two about renewable energy and energy storage.
I wouldn't take much notice of what Elon Musk says about hydrogen he hates the stuff but loves the battery technology he uses with his company Tesla .

Lithium is the new oil and if we go down that route we will experience very similar problems with the environment. There is a limited supply of Lithium and the bulk of it is in very unstable parts of the world, wars will be fought over mining rights much like oil.

He is very worried about hydrogen as a storage meduim because it is so much more efficient than his battery tecnology and far more viable for mass production in the long run, he knows hydrogen will eventually put Tesla out of business.

A massive conflict of interest I would suggest. *smile*

What could be more simple than splitting water ( dirty water is usable ) into hydrogen and oxygen using renewable energy then storing the hydrogen in carbon fibre based tanks or as a hydride until the electrical energy is needed then run it through a fuel cell to release electrons and as a bonus you get clean water back ready to split again or drink.

Water, sun, air, and wind are free to everyone around most of the world which ironically is the greatest barrier to a hydrogen based economy.

As for amplifiers I think there will always be a limited number of class A amplifiers built but they will find a way to tax you for the privilege of owning one

Class D amplifiers seem to be improving by leaps and bounds just look at Colin's Nord creations that have recieved fantastic feedback .

http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/nord-reviews?gclid=CJfq-7nu9MgCFSoEwwodtMEDOQ
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
16
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0
The Bel Canto class D amplifier that I heard at an amplifier bake-off had received fantastic reviews and feedback and an owner that rated it highly. Still didn't stop it from making pianos sound all wrong. The best sounding amplifier at that bake-off was class A.
 

TrevC

Well-known member
Jun 12, 2013
244
83
18,870
Gazzip said:
DomCheetham said:
I have never listened to a class D amp, so I don't know. Don't get wrong I'm all for best performance to pound ratio, it's just my planet might not be make it too long, and we all die.
My amps heat my listening room to such an extent that the central heating hasn't come on in here more than once or twice in three years. I consider myself an environmental pioneer on this basis.

(The times it did come on I was running a Devialet 800)
So in the summer you waste a lot of energy. Not exactly environmentally friendly.
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
48
4
18,545
TrevC said:
Gazzip said:
DomCheetham said:
I have never listened to a class D amp, so I don't know. Don't get wrong I'm all for best performance to pound ratio, it's just my planet might not be make it too long, and we all die.
My amps heat my listening room to such an extent that the central heating hasn't come on in here more than once or twice in three years. I consider myself an environmental pioneer on this basis.

(The times it did come on I was running a Devialet 800)
So in the summer you waste a lot of energy. Not exactly environmentally friendly.
if you're so worried about saving energy, why not power down your computer and stop posting on here?
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
2
18,545
Infiniteloop said:
TrevC said:
Gazzip said:
DomCheetham said:
I have never listened to a class D amp, so I don't know. Don't get wrong I'm all for best performance to pound ratio, it's just my planet might not be make it too long, and we all die.
My amps heat my listening room to such an extent that the central heating hasn't come on in here more than once or twice in three years. I consider myself an environmental pioneer on this basis.

(The times it did come on I was running a Devialet 800)
So in the summer you waste a lot of energy. Not exactly environmentally friendly.
if you're so worried about saving energy, why not power down your computer and stop posting on here?
He could always power his computer using one of these.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/3066072/sustainable-it/new-generator-can-halve-cost-of-hydrogen-used-to-power-buildings-cars.html

Problem solved. *i-m_so_happy*
 

Gazzip

New member
Jan 15, 2011
88
0
0
TrevC said:
Gazzip said:
DomCheetham said:
I have never listened to a class D amp, so I don't know. Don't get wrong I'm all for best performance to pound ratio, it's just my planet might not be make it too long, and we all die.
My amps heat my listening room to such an extent that the central heating hasn't come on in here more than once or twice in three years. I consider myself an environmental pioneer on this basis.

(The times it did come on I was running a Devialet 800)
So in the summer you waste a lot of energy. Not exactly environmentally friendly.
I don't listen to Hifi in the summer. I spend my summer evenings in the garden burning fossil fuels to cook dead animals.
 

Rimse

New member
Dec 14, 2012
18
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lindsayt said:
The Bel Canto class D amplifier that I heard at an amplifier bake-off had received fantastic reviews and feedback and an owner that rated it highly. Still didn't stop it from making pianos sound all wrong. The best sounding amplifier at that bake-off was class A.
that is why some manufactures make hybrid amps of D class and valves
 

Alberich

New member
Mar 15, 2016
11
0
0
Rimse said:
lindsayt said:
The Bel Canto class D amplifier that I heard at an amplifier bake-off had received fantastic reviews and feedback and an owner that rated it highly. Still didn't stop it from making pianos sound all wrong. The best sounding amplifier at that bake-off was class A.

 
that is why some manufactures  make hybrid amps of D class and valves
One of my best experiences with class D was auditioning the NAD M12 / M22.
The M22 controlled a pair of JMR Bliss speakers like a dream.
Was in awe of its authority and dynamics.
One thing I've consistently found with all the class D amps i've experienced though is a slight synthetic character to the music.
Some more than others but it's always been there.
Some class D to my ears sounds a bit overly clean or a fraction sterile in its reproduction of music. It could possibly do with some of the harmonic distortion that can come with tubes, imo.
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
48
4
18,545
Alberich said:
Rimse said:
lindsayt said:
The Bel Canto class D amplifier that I heard at an amplifier bake-off had received fantastic reviews and feedback and an owner that rated it highly. Still didn't stop it from making pianos sound all wrong. The best sounding amplifier at that bake-off was class A.
that is why some manufactures make hybrid amps of D class and valves
One of my best experiences with class D was auditioning the NAD M12 / M22. The M22 controlled a pair of JMR Bliss speakers like a dream. Was in awe of its authority and dynamics. One thing I've consistently found with all the class D amps i've experienced though is a slight synthetic character to the music. Some more than others but it's always been there. Some class D to my ears sounds a bit overly clean or a fraction sterile in its reproduction of music. It could possibly do with some of the harmonic distortion that can come with tubes, imo.
I'd be really interested to hear what you thought of the Devialet sound. I love the sound of valves but sometimes find that bass isn't as tight or tuneful as a good SS Amp can provide. For me, the combination of class A and D together as executed by Devialet gives you the best of both worlds.
 

Alberich

New member
Mar 15, 2016
11
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0
Infiniteloop said:
Alberich said:
Rimse said:
lindsayt said:
The Bel Canto class D amplifier that I heard at an amplifier bake-off had received fantastic reviews and feedback and an owner that rated it highly. Still didn't stop it from making pianos sound all wrong. The best sounding amplifier at that bake-off was class A.

 
that is why some manufactures  make hybrid amps of D class and valves
One of my best experiences with class D was auditioning the NAD M12 / M22. The M22 controlled a pair of JMR Bliss speakers like a dream. Was in awe of its authority and dynamics. One thing I've consistently found with all the class D amps i've experienced though is a slight synthetic character to the music. Some more than others but it's always been there. Some class D to my ears sounds a bit overly clean or a fraction sterile in its reproduction of music. It could possibly do with some of the harmonic distortion that can come with tubes, imo.
I'd be really interested to hear what you thought of the Devialet sound. I love the sound of valves but sometimes find that bass isn't as tight or tuneful as a good SS Amp can provide. For me, the combination of class A and D together as executed by Devialet gives you the best of both worlds.
I had a very brief listen to a pair of Devialet 200 mono blocks paired with B&W 803 DS2 at my dealers a little while ago while I was there picking something else up.
Too brief a listen to make a proper judgement really and it was in the busy showroom area so not ideal.
One thing that was pretty obvious though was the control the Devialet had over the B&W's, particularly in the bass department. I suppose that's class D's forte really.

I don't doubt for a second though the other quality's of the hybrid A/D topology.
Will have to arrange a proper demo even though a pair of 200's mono'ed is way out of my league!
 

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