Class D Amplification.

[shooter]

Reading a recent post that went off coarse, thought i'd ask the question.

Do you think Class D amplification will take off?

ICE amplification is what they like to call it, but the likes of B & O, Lyngdorf and Rotel are bringing out Class D amps.

Obviously Class D has been around for years but are these brands are dipping there toe in future ampification?

Class D runs cooler, takes up less space, (so smaller units) consumes less power that means they are consequently greener than Class AB.

The likes of B & O and Lyngdorf seem to have it 'down to a tee' with sound quality but reading other posts Rotel are stuggling to achieve this (even though i have no experience of any brands mentioned), is this down to the aproach they have or does it cost more to be green, as this is usually the case!!

 

[Anonymous]

Digital or PWM amplifiers are actually analogue amps that switch on and off really fast. They change the amplitude of the signal by varying the width of the digital pulses (Pulse Width Modulation). There are, of course, many types including sony's S-Master, B&O's ICEpower, BASH and others which all work slightly differently.

Back in 1998 Peter Lyngdorf made the worlds first fully digital amplifier (Millenium mk1) whilst working for Tact. Then he went off and created a company of his own, Lyngdorf of course. He took the design with him and it's now in it's fourth iteration.

It would seem these technologies are the future. They are far more efficient, they require smaller components and power supplies and there is no crossover distortion like in class AB designs.

Even Mark Levinson is using Class D in there new monoblocks. This surely shows how good it can be when correctly implemented.

The amp i use has analogue input with digital volume control (1000 steps) and PWM output stage. It is the size of the average integrated but is measured at 220W into 8Ohms, 20-20KHz, >1% distortion. I have to admit i love it.

The last thing i'd like to say is i cannot wait to hear NADs new M2 amplifier (c£5000), said to be the most advanced amp on the planet. It's digital (Diodes Zetex DDFA), 250W and has powerdrive. Looks immense

Cheers

 

[shooter]

It does seem logical to move in this direction and so far the big boys in hifi seem to have it when producing sound. The Mark Livinson's you talk about are the No. 53's that cost a cool £35'000 add those monoblocks to the Lyngdorf IV at £11'000, B & o' s at ? and the NAD at £5000 and we see a current theme albait on a downward trend, this can only be a good thing.

I'm only theorising when say Class D must cost more to manufacture but if this isnt the case then why are we not seeing more of it!

Note to the No 53's.

Mark Levinson has awarded referance status to the No 53's.
The last referance status was to the renouned 33's back in 1994 surely this is a sign of things to come from Class D amplification.

 

[Thaiman]

I really really want Class D to take off. but as far as I can see (and hear) the higher end's future of Class d still a bit ropey.

The like of Chapter, which to me, the front runner of class d design never get the sale that they deserve. I also had a TacT/Lyngdorf and Nuforce pre/power and I found them on a clinical side. Absolute details but not much emotion.

I am back to valves and full Class A amp, at least we will be warm in the long cold british winter!

 

[Anonymous]

Hey All,

Interesting, thanks for this. I'm looking at NuForce at the moment, their latest V9's have received a couple of great reviews, but not heard of other comparative ratings.

Thaiman - Just for interest, how did you find these amps in terms of soundstage - was it wide and deep, narrow/flat, or just average? I'm looking for as wide and deep as possible, but have found valves etc a little too warm.

Enjoy the Winter!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'd be interested IF there was anything Class D to rival my Bryston 7B mono's. And if there is, they'd have to also beat the newer 7Bsst2's to even be considered.....

 

[wireman]

FrankHarveyHiFi:I'd be interested IF there was anything Class D to rival my Bryston 7B mono's. And if there is, they'd have to also beat the newer 7Bsst2's to even be considered.....
I'd agree with you there. My friend has just ditched a Tact all-digital system after 5 years of grief just never getting it to sound right. Guess what? He's replaced it with Bryston 7B's and PMC IB2's.

Martin Colloms gave a presentation at the Munich Hi-End show in 2008... it was titled "Are Class D Amplifiers High Fidelity?". His conclusions were interesting to say the least. You can probably google that title and find a copy of his presentation notes.

 

[caddyhound]

I am taking delivery of a Lyngdorf TDAi2200 amp with Room Perfect next week to replace my AVi Lab Series pre and V2 power.I was extremely impressed with the demos of it and it will be interesting to see how it copes with my odd room.I will post a comparative review after I have had chance to listen.Some of the digital amps available use Switch Power supplies and are fairly light,some like Lyngdorf use enormous transformers and are heavy but I am not sure how this differentiates the sound.It will be nice having a Dac in the amp though!

 

[Anonymous]

My system (see below) sounds fantastic. I also have a b&o system in the livingroom with ICE that sounds good but not as good as the lyngdorf/b&w combo. It does sound alot better than the b&o's usual reputation among "audiophiles" though.

 

[audioaffair]

As far as we've seen Class D has "taken off" at some levels, most specifically with NuForce. Their Reference power amps (V2 SE and now the V3 SE has just been released) are stunning for the money - one customer who bought these loved them after auditioning so many other amps from Classe, Krell, Naim, etc. They do offer something special in terms of immediacy, clarity and dynamics and are very energy efficient due to the fact that more energy is converted into sound rather than heat. They're also tiny for the amount of power they produce!

 

[drummerman]

Thaiman:
...

The like of Chapter, which to me, the front runner of class d design never get the sale that they deserve. I also had a TacT/Lyngdorf and Nuforce pre/power and I found them on a clinical side. Absolute details but not much emotion.

...

Oddly enough I found the Class A products I tried mostly to 'clinical' (My valve amplifier was switchable pure Class A/AB and that was not a problem). Perhaps the wrong word but 'to pristine sounding' may be a better term for it. I did'nt have 4grand amps to hand but when I had a Flying Mole Digital Amplifier, clinical was not the first thing that came to mind.

 

[Thaiman]

drummerman:Thaiman:

...

The like of Chapter, which to me, the front runner of class d design never get the sale that they deserve. I also had a TacT/Lyngdorf and Nuforce pre/power and I found them on a clinical side. Absolute details but not much emotion.

...

Oddly enough I found the Class A products I tried mostly to 'clinical' (My valve amplifier was switchable pure Class A/AB and that was not a problem). Perhaps the wrong word but 'to pristine sounding' may be a better term for it. I did'nt have 4grand amps to hand but when I had a Flying Mole Digital Amplifier, clinical was not the first thing that came to mind.

I never heard any flying Mole but the brand seem to get plenty of good ink. I only heard 4 really! Chapter Audio was the only one that bring goosepump all over (the pre was fabulous while power amp is on the lean side), the rest, which was Tact, Nuforce, Rotel)was full with control but very hifi in presentation. needless to say that if the sound didn't connect with me doesn't mean it wouldn't be your nirvana.