Chinese clones which one to choose?

[Jasonovich]

I call upon all you trusted folks from the fraternity of HiFi and the mentally insane.
I got the itch again and I've been lamenting over the old Lehmann's cloned head amp that I sold on eBay. The SingXer is much better but not three times the price. I'm seriously thinking of purchasing another clone job from AliExpress to replace the Fosi V3.

I really like the Fosi and truly a bargain though it is said that the Ayima A07 is reputed to be better at or around the same price. Anyway I'm looking for more expansion, more drama and weight to the sound, I want my little Dali speakers to piss their pants. So I want to treat myself for Christmas, cause Santa has eloped with the wicked witch of the north and I can't get hold of him or her (please add your own pronouns).

I've narrowed it down to two clones that are authentic (hmmm not the right word) to the original blue print. The original NAIM came in two boxes but the clone comes in one box, which is cool.

Shall I go for the NAIM NAC152 Preamp NAP200 Combined Amplifier 75W+75W 8 Ohm 4 Way RCA Input With Remote Control

or
HIFI Remote C3810(Reference C3850)+E350 Preamplifier+Power Amplifier Integrated Amplifier Base On Accuphase Circuit 75W+75W

Which of the two would be the better choice, I'm genuinely split and I hope you can nudge me in the right direction. If you're of the opinion I shouldn't buy either and you have a better option, I'm all ears.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005384313895.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.27.58fa28abmqxYCc&algo_pvid=bb2938a9-f37f-48c0-893d-9b369dd8de4f&algo_exp_id=bb2938a9-f37f-48c0-893d-9b369dd8de4f-13&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21GBP%21304.55%21258.86%21%21%21371.04%21%21%40211b801717022892115952522e2973%2112000032833771366%21sea%21UK%212022925542%21&curPageLogUid=zTIdFS1exdYI

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001139362422.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.13.28a8UtwyUtwywE&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.291025.0&scm_id=1007.13339.291025.0&scm-url=1007.13339.291025.0&pvid=76807e59-9ec2-4d9b-b3f8-083a240294d2&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.291025.0,pvid:76807e59-9ec2-4d9b-b3f8-083a240294d2,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238108%231977&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21GBP%21255.76%21217.4%21%21%21311.60%21%21%40211b801b17022911042764786e3086%2110000014779749769%21rec%21UK%212022925542%21

 

[manicm]

I would avoid these at all costs. Will they be properly grounded for example, do you want to risk shock?

 

[Jasonovich]

I would avoid these at all costs. Will they be properly grounded for example, do you want to risk shock?

It's a fair point and there's always an element of risk. I got the Lehmann's head amp from the same supplier, the person I sold it to checked the circuitry and it was exact copy of the original. If you factor this in, the safety aspects would have been implemented into design as the original.

Both the amps appear to be suitably grounded but I am appreciative of your feedback and you make a valid point.

 

[Gray]

I'm not advocating the purchase of clones, but there's no need to fear getting a shock from the casework - provided you do a simple internal visual and essential continuity check from mains plug earth to the casing.

 

[plastic penguin]

Personally never owned any Chinese made components. For no reason other than they are the poor relative to an equivalent European or US piece of kit.

Exactly the same with cars, they will make clones of European cars and they are cheap. Cheap for a reason. They are rubbish.

 

[Symples]

Copying... weren't the Japanese doing that way back? 😀

 

[daveh75]

Exactly the same with cars, they will make clones of European cars and they are cheap. Cheap for a reason. They are rubbish.

That is ignorant nonsense frankly!

Chinese built Tesla's offer better build quality than their US counterparts.

Apple, whatever your views on the company and their products, are high quality and mostly built in China. As are many Android phones.

China's EV manufacturers are now producing cars that easily rival their Japanese and European counterparts.

Chinese contract manufacturers are able to build to any standard the client requires.

To label Chinese manufacturered products as "cheap for a reason" is just lazy stereotyping at best!!!

 

[podknocker]

Personally never owned any Chinese made components. For no reason other than they are the poor relative to an equivalent European or US piece of kit.

Exactly the same with cars, they will make clones of European cars and they are cheap. Cheap for a reason. They are rubbish.

Hate to say it, but the Chinese make fantastic quality cars and mobile phones and the UK makes neither. We build stuff for foreign companies, but our manufacturing sector is on its arse and will never recover enough to compete with the Chinese. They are a huge way ahead of us and will have the largest economy within a few years. They also make most of our HIFI. IAG now makes most of the stuff we rant about on here.

 

[Jasonovich]

Copying... weren't the Japanese doing that way back? 😀

Indeed they were in the 70s, look at them now, no look at the Koreans, no look at the Chinese!

 

[Jasonovich]

Personally never owned any Chinese made components. For no reason other than they are the poor relative to an equivalent European or US piece of kit.

Exactly the same with cars, they will make clones of European cars and they are cheap. Cheap for a reason. They are rubbish.

Yes there is a fair amount of rubbish but almost everything today would stop functioning, if there were no Chinese electronics or manufacturing.

 

[podknocker]

I'm not advocating the purchase of clones, but there's no need to fear getting a shock from the casework - provided you do a simple internal visual and essential continuity check from mains plug earth to the casing.

Most people looking for a 'bargain' would never think of doing this and could find themselves getting a shock. I would never buy something like these devices above. Stick to genuine branded products, from known and reliable vendors. It's really not worth the risk.

 

[Witterings]

That is ignorant nonsense frankly!

Chinese built Tesla's offer better build quality than their US counterparts.

Apple, whatever your views on the company and their products, are high quality and mostly built in China. As are many Android phones.

China's EV manufacturers are now producing cars that easily rival their Japanese and European counterparts.

Chinese contract manufacturers are able to build to any standard the client requires.

To label Chinese manufacturered products as "cheap for a reason" is just lazy stereotyping at best!!!

I'd have a large bet that the Tesla's and Apple products are built to a standard and quaity control specified by Tesla / Apple rather than letting a Chinese company take their own direction on it and hence why they're built to a level of quality.

My experience with most Chinese products is they release things absolutely full of bugs / issues and seem to regard their customers as free testers, there then follows several firmware updates to try and get it right all the time leaving their customers frustrated.

Just as you feel they're getting close and and most of the issues resolved, they launch a new product with marketing hype to make it sound much better than the previous one to generate revenue.
This new product has as many issues as the previous one did on release which they've stopped trying to fix as it's not going to earn any more revenue.

Personally I think there's a huge distinction between a Chinese company producing something for a Western / European company to their spec than a product wholly produced by a Chinese company who seem to have no regard for their customers at all.

Copying... weren't the Japanese doing that way back? 😀

They certainly did ... but to a far higher standard.

Go back years ago and compare say a Toyota Celica to a Ford Capri ... the Toyota was much better quality,

Sony TV's were way head of the pack for many years, Honda are synonymous with quality, from their cars / motorbikes to their lawn mower engines ... the list of quality Japanese products is endless.
.

 

[matthewpianist]

If you want Naim, buy Naim, secondhand if it fits your budget better. Quite apart from anything else Naim's service support, even for older models, is outstanding.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Exactly the same with cars, they will make clones of European cars and they are cheap. Cheap for a reason. They are rubbish.

This is quite rapidly becoming not the case - several of their manufacturers are getting solid (if not class-leading) reviews in the likes of Autocar these days.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

the person I sold it to checked the circuitry and it was exact copy of the original.

That's why I'd never buy anything like that - the original company did the R&D, and no-one should get that for nothing. It's theft, to my mind at least.

 

[podknocker]

That's why I'd never buy anything like that - the original company did the R&D, and no-one should get that for nothing. It's theft, to my mind at least.

Some Chinese counterfeits are as good as the genuine article, sometimes even better, but with electronics, that's rarely the case and I wouldn't touch some stuff with a barge pole. I also agree it's theft and it's a shame they get away with it. Every item sold is a loss of sales for the genuine company. I would always support the original company and not give a counterfeit company any of my money. Clothing and perfume manufacturers struggle to sell their products, because of the knock offs and we can't allow the Chinese economy to ruin our home grown brands, or those of other legitimate companies. The Chinese have a big enough slice of the market already.

 

[Jasonovich]

The criticism aimed at Chinese manufacturing are justified to some degree and yet the tonality with some of the comments is bordering on the Chi-no-phobia.

I remember my uncle brought a spanking new Morris 1100 back in the days when I was wee mite and in the first week it broke down. Quality control isn't the realm of everybody with the exclusion of the Chinese.
Caveat Empter is the universal law, let the buyer beware.

There's a plethora of branded Chinese HiFi and telephony products that have worldwide accolation, you just have look at my signature to pick those out.

The Chinese have built space stations, they've landed craft on the moon. They are smart and they learn fast and I agree there are some aspects that can be improved, such as quality control, customer service and product manuals you can understand. Though it's fair to say some of the products have been innovating and sold at a very reasonable price.

There are things I would buy that are Chinese such as HiFi , washing machines, TVs (Hicense) takeaways and mobile phones (I own a Huawei) but will avoid electric cars and stand up comedians.

 

[Revolutions]

That's why I'd never buy anything like that - the original company did the R&D, and no-one should get that for nothing. It's theft, to my mind at least.

I wonder whether the combination of two circuit board clones would make the design original & escape copyright law. If not, the courts would see it as theft as well.

Still, kinda cool idea. I own a few cloned guitar pedals from budget Chinese manufacturers. Well made & do the job well enough for me.

 

[Jasonovich]

That's why I'd never buy anything like that - the original company did the R&D, and no-one should get that for nothing. It's theft, to my mind at least.

Is it theft? I believe they buy the patents of old obsolete products and make it their own. No UK/EU/US manufacturer will sell patents of their new products to the Chinese that would be crazy and suicide. Notice the designs are always obsolete products, sold at a very reasonable price.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Is it theft? I believe they buy the patents of old obsolete products and make it their own.

I doubt that these amp designs are actually patented. They're too grounded in existing engineering principles.

 

[Friesiansam]

Chinese cars are greatly improved but, some still come up a little short for reliability. Chinese products made for western companies can be very variable. I had a Chinese made La-Z-Boy swivel recliner chair, seemed good when new but, after 4 years it actually felt unsafe and had to go (felt like it was about to collapse). We also had a Chinese made Kenwood mixer, which was short-lived.

Now we have an, also Chinese built, Smeg mixer and, it's an excellent device. We also have Apple devices which, whatever your views on Apple, are fine quality.

However go to Amazon, Ebay, Etsi and, worst of all Aliexpress, amongst others and, you find a minefield of woefully poor quality Chinese rubbish, such that finding anything good is becoming increasingly difficult. The West is being used as a dumping ground to bring in foreign currency.

 

[podknocker]

Is it theft? I believe they buy the patents of old obsolete products and make it their own.

This does happen, but many products are just clones of successful products made in the west and the Chinese sell other people's IP to make profit. If you owned a successful brand, would you like another company making profit from your ideas and reducing your sales and profit? I know I would be livid. Chinese products made under licence, or brands owned by China, such as IAG stuff then fine, but a Burberry jacket made in China, without Burberry endorsing or allowing this, is just theft.

Burberry destroys £28m of stock to guard against counterfeits

Luxury brand burns clothing and beauty items in practice said to be widespread in retail

www.theguardian.com

Stuff like this is happening in every sector.

 

[Jasonovich]

I suspect I opened up a can of worms Hahaha, that's great, always nice to have a debate.

 

[camcroft]

That is ignorant nonsense frankly!

Chinese built Tesla's offer better build quality than their US counterparts.

Apple, whatever your views on the company and their products, are high quality and mostly built in China. As are many Android phones.

China's EV manufacturers are now producing cars that easily rival their Japanese and European counterparts.

Chinese contract manufacturers are able to build to any standard the client requires.

To label Chinese manufacturered products as "cheap for a reason" is just lazy stereotyping at best!!!

My wifes son is a car designer and he works for a Chinese electric car maker but one of their design studios is in Munich which I think is due to them wanting to get a bit of European design into their cars. He is coming over in December and he will be driving one of their cars which slightly resembles a Tesla. Possibly the first in the country.

 

[jjbomber]

Naim's service support, even for older models, is outstanding.

Except the Uniti, which they abandoned after 10 years. No more screens.