Witterings
Well-known member
I don't think it's Chi-no-phobia at all (well not in my case) but just people who feel they've been treated with distain as customers factually commenting on what they've experienced and reflecting the same level of distain back at them.
It's also not just anti another nation as you don't get the same comments aimed at Japanese companies.
matthewpianist
Well-known member
I suspect screens may prove a weak point for a lot of manufacturers and products.
daveh75
Well-known member
Which is why I specifically mentioned China's contract manufacturers will build to any specifications their clients request!
However, Tesla run their own factories, but the Chinese examples are still built to a better standard than their US counterparts...
That's pretty much the tech industry in general!
Apple, Google and Microsoft all do that, let alone Chinese manufacturers..
And let's not forget KEF with their first gen LS50 Wireless/LSX to keep it on topic.
I don't agree.
And you only have to look at what the likes of SAIC, Geely and GWM are producing to see thats just yet more lazy stereotyping...
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Putting aside the geopolitics, where propagation is often dished out at government level, not just the Chinese but any nation not on the Atlantis Xmas Card list will get the same treatment.
Global business has a different language and profit usually over rides geopolitical sentiment (with the exception of Nord Stream II
), that is why a lot of Japanese companies are outsourced to China, though I suspect, the quality control is much tighter.
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WayneKerr
Well-known member
You seem to do this on a regular basis, methinks you enjoy this a little too much Jason.
Perish the thought my good man 😊
When I dissappeared from the HiFi scene some 20 years ago, call it popular myth, I did believe most people were of the opinion that cables made a difference. I never imagined the big gulf of change and so when I came in de'facto I thought every one was on the same page. Oh dear.... Ha
In hindsight I should have realised things move on and had I known, I would have taken a more tactful approach.
Still I don't think we should shy away from a good debate, even if it is controversial.
You're never too old to learn something, I always welcome opposing views as long as everyone including myself recognise the boundaries and as you mentioned in another thread, we all share a passion for HiFi. 👍
WayneKerr
Well-known member
I like you Jason, you're a good bloke and you do liven the place up so please don't go anywhere
I think things have moved on to the point where people aren't so blindly accepting of subjective foo and now demand objective measurements, especially so with the dreaded 'C' word. There are still 'C' believers on here but they lay low lest the hounds are unleashed, hopefully we have reached an amicable centre ground as 'C' threads always become toxic on here.Debate is great but you do put yourself in the cross-hairs so many times that I wonder if this is deliberate
Never too old to learn, I learn something new every day and long may it continue.
Shared passion
plastic penguin
Well-known member
Just a little history lesson, and this'll be the last I'll contribute on this thread:
Japan has always been different, so not sure how they and China can be linked.
After 1945 the US, given they bombed the life out of the Japanese, gave them the technology to help get them back on their feet.
Also Japanese engineering were designing stuff for their forces, such as Mitsubishi (Zero fighter aircraft); Suzuki made all terraine vehicles (ATVs) for their military which are now known as SUVs. Nissan and Datsun (Dat Son) was the same.
Apart from vehicles and aircraft, they embrassed electronics in their vehicles, which dripped down into radios and radiograms.
I've read for some years, for some reason, people who have Chinese hi-fi products tend to change their kit more often -- just an observation.
Not sure why Tesla cars are mentioned. What's the cost of a new entry-level Tesla car? £40-50k? Little different to Chinese Dac costing 10 pence.
If products are made under licence, that would be a different story.
The end.
Japan has always been different, so not sure how they and China can be linked.
After 1945 the US, given they bombed the life out of the Japanese, gave them the technology to help get them back on their feet.
Also Japanese engineering were designing stuff for their forces, such as Mitsubishi (Zero fighter aircraft); Suzuki made all terraine vehicles (ATVs) for their military which are now known as SUVs. Nissan and Datsun (Dat Son) was the same.
Apart from vehicles and aircraft, they embrassed electronics in their vehicles, which dripped down into radios and radiograms.
I've read for some years, for some reason, people who have Chinese hi-fi products tend to change their kit more often -- just an observation.
Not sure why Tesla cars are mentioned. What's the cost of a new entry-level Tesla car? £40-50k? Little different to Chinese Dac costing 10 pence.
If products are made under licence, that would be a different story.
The end.
davidf
Well-known member
Other than the fact these are direct clones (ie, illegal copies), you have to ask the question as to whether they’ve been CE certified. The original will have been, and chances are the Chinese will likely assume their copy would pass to, but that doesn’t mean it has actually gone through CE certification - if it hasn’t, it will not be CE certified. If it burns your house down, this could be used by the insurance company to avoid paying out the claim.
Revolutions
Well-known member
This reminds me of my killjoy parents when I was young
“don’t play with fireworks in the house, Matt. You’ll burn the house down. Again.”
“don’t play with fireworks in the house, Matt. You’ll burn the house down. Again.”
Revolutions
Well-known member
Do they do a version without that text on the top? It’s a bit distracting
Gray
Well-known member
My reply was aimed at Jason, Pod.
And I know he's more than capable of doing those simple checks.
Like I said, I'm not saying he should buy a cloned product - but if he wants to and confirms a secure earth, at least he won't get a shock from the casing - whether the product is worth owning is different question of course.
(For those that can, not a bad idea to confirm earths even on products from reputable manufacturers).
Witterings
Well-known member
Debate is great but you do put yourself in the cross-hairs so many times that I wonder if this is deliberate
^^^ hence why I didn't bother replying again ... seems little point
podknocker
Well-known member
Years ago, my NAD T585 broke under warranty and then again just outside warranty and on the 2nd job sheet, they advised it wasn't earthed. I do remember hearing a strange electrical hum from the unit and I was puzzled. I never received a shock, but looking back, this unit was a real nightmare. It sounded incredible before the transport failed and I do miss the sound quality, but not the lack of reliability. Quality control is lacking, even with big name brands and it's so disappointing. The thought of buying a non certified Chinese import, of poor quality and using dubious parts is something I would never consider. At least with genuine brands, you can seek help and a fix, if under warranty. Where do you go if your random import goes wrong? I'm so wary and unwilling to trust many companies these days.
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Gray
Well-known member
Blimey.
That doesn't say much for the first repair - where they either missed or caused the lack of earth that the second repair discovered!
Either way, that was unforgivable.
Pods story reminded me of my very first Denon AV amp. .After two years of service it shorted out. The amp power light remained on standby (red), it would not switch to Green power on. It was outside the warranty but Richer Sounds very kindly offered to repair it free of charge.
Two weeks, I had a call to collect the Denon
Everything was functioning OK and this was great for another eight months and the same problem occurred.
I decided to look it over myself. I terminated the main supply before uncovering the lid. I couldn't see anything obvious like melted plastic or blackened circuitry. Then it caught my eye, two blots of solder between the two wires were only hair thickness apart.
I resoldered the points and widened the distance between the two wires. Also cleaning the area from any fragments of solder debris.
This done the trick, I never had a problem with Denon moving forward.
Even reputable brands on occasions go wrong.
Seems a bit pointless, maybe it's to stop other vendors cloning their ideas
You're right Gray, if in doubt don't buy. I have in the past built my own kit amps to save money.
I put together PCs and done simple repairs like replacing the Led panel on a laptop.
I understand the importance of good earthing in electrical components. I know certain capacitors are better quality, I know if the vendor is cost cutting. Multi layered boards with solid copper are always better than tbose layered with tin.
Basic stuff, if people are uncomfortable with that, they should stick to brands
My experience with Chinese clones, the Lehman and another preamp was positive not just the sound quality but these were trouble free.
I had for over a year before selling them off.
I understand people's concern and always do the due diligence if you know what you're doing.
Rodolfo
Well-known member
If there were What HiFi fora in the 70s, there were probably threads on Japan and Japanese tech and manufacturing as biased and non-sensical, including the historical distortions.
davidf
Well-known member
And? If the Chinese will blatantly copy another manufacturer’s design, how can you trust them to gain genuine CE certification for every product they make? How do we know it’s genuine?
Stuart83
Well-known member
We all speak from our own experience, mine with China hasn't been good when compared to the more expensive western equipment but isn't that the point, it's more expensive.
As for cars we made some of the worst in reliability but all have something most Chinese cars will never have and that's character.
(There's the odd exception)
I've had my experience with Chinese tools and their marshmallow spanners my knuckles still hold the scars, only a Hilti gun remains in my collection that never went in the bin.
But as for the main question I'm not sure why one wouldn't go second hand with that cash and get something proven and original.
As for cars we made some of the worst in reliability but all have something most Chinese cars will never have and that's character.
(There's the odd exception)
I've had my experience with Chinese tools and their marshmallow spanners my knuckles still hold the scars, only a Hilti gun remains in my collection that never went in the bin.
But as for the main question I'm not sure why one wouldn't go second hand with that cash and get something proven and original.
GSV Ethics Gradient
Moderator
I think we're sailing a bit close to forum rules in geopolitical terms. People used to criticise Korean cars in terms of them being characterless appliances, but Hyundai's N division would disagree (as would the UK motoring press).
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