CD vs vinyl playback

[Jasonovich]

As per the Verge, I hope this doesn't become the norm.😕

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/ClfC6ntNvLU?si=Ya-Fq7hVDV_xcUr2

 

[Pedro2]

I share your sentiment, it's all about the process.
In my youth I was very much into analogue. I had a great turntable, Musical Fidelity speakers feeding off, two Edison mono block tube amps.
Truly a holographic experience.

I left all that behind, you know marriage, daughter on the way, divorced, married again. Life's a rollercoaster as you know!

Today, I have my CD/SACD collections and listen to them when I feel the need to have something physical in my hand.
These days, I'm downloading my music, mostly DSD and on occasions I may listen to streaming.

If I told you, I'm getting much better listening experience from DSD, not so much it's High Res but I believe it comes down to the bit stream processing, truly is beyond the threshold of CDs in terms of extracting the essence of the music.

To sum up, Hifi has many facets, essentially it's not about completing technologies but whatever pulls your string.
Enjoy and let's all avoid this meaningless tribalism. 🙂

I/we listen to music in numerous formats - vinyl, download rips in CD/Flac, streaming in lossy and lossless formats, as well as internet radio feeds. I also have a CD transport but it’s rarely, if ever, plugged in.

I’m pretty much agnostic regarding formats and just enjoy music wherever it’s coming from. However, if I was forced to make a choice on SQ alone, I would probably put streaming from CD rips (stored on a NAS) as best. This is based on my ears on my system. I’m sure that better vinyl playback is possible but with the right streamer/dac/preamp/network/cabling etc, digital sounds superb. It’s taken me a long time to get to this point and I’m always on the search for better.

Talking of which, I’ve just discovered the wonder of DSD downloads. Didn’t know they existed and didn’t know that my Linn streamer could play them (it can). Just downloaded Rimsky Korsakoff’s Sheharazade and it sounds amazing.

Thanks!

 

[Jasonovich]

I/we listen to music in numerous formats - vinyl, download rips in CD/Flac, streaming in lossy and lossless formats, as well as internet radio feeds. I also have a CD transport but it’s rarely, if ever, plugged in.

I’m pretty much agnostic regarding formats and just enjoy music wherever it’s coming from. However, if I was forced to make a choice on SQ alone, I would probably put streaming from CD rips (stored on a NAS) as best. This is based on my ears on my system. I’m sure that better vinyl playback is possible but with the right streamer/dac/preamp/network/cabling etc, digital sounds superb. It’s taken me a long time to get to this point and I’m always on the search for better.

Talking of which, I’ve just discovered the wonder of DSD downloads. Didn’t know they existed and didn’t know that my Linn streamer could play them (it can). Just downloaded Rimsky Korsakoff’s Sheharazade and it sounds amazing.

Thanks!

DSDs are truly amazing. Have you tried Nativedsd?
My preference downloads is pure DSD or Analogue master tape to DSD.
Here's the link if you're not familiar with the site. 🙂

DSD Audio Downloads | DSD, DXD, 384k PCM, FLAC, MKV | NativeDSD Music https://share.google/cvz6DQ8jJl9V1g645

 

[Gray]

DSDs are truly amazing.

Hate to bring up the subject of blind testing Jason but.....
Could you always tell you were listening to DSD and not CD of the same master?

And then there's DSD download availability.
Content wise, isn't it more a case of what they've got rather than what you want?

 

[Jasonovich]

Hate to bring up the subject of blind testing Jason but.....
Could you always tell you were listening to DSD and not CD of the same master?

And then there's DSD download availability.
Content wise, isn't it more a case of what they've got rather than what you want?

It's a fair question, Gray. I'm glad you asked.

Yes, DSD has a different tonal signature to CD. If you had extensive DSD listening, you recognize the sonic finger print.
It's not as obvious when you compare MP3s to CDs but if you're familiar with the sound of DSD, you should be able recognized the differences when it's played and when a CD is played.
I appreciate it all comes down to the quality of the DAC, not all are able to output in pure DSD, some only output in DOP or conversion to PCM but still it will retain the higher resolution.

I think the question to ask, are you listening to vinyl or DSD, that could be a bit tricky? 🙂

Most people I'd imagine won't see the need to invest in the DSD format because CD is more than good enough for most of their listening needs but if you want to put that soul into your music, I think it's worth the extra mile, many will agree, many more will disagree. It's like I said in my previous comments, whatever pulls your string.

Availability is the problem, I only wish DSD was more universal. NativeDSD has no shortage of classical, jazz, blues, folk, world music. Not enough contemporary pop but you're not missing much. There's always something on NativeDSD I will find worth purchasing, not artist that you recognize instantly but by the same token, no less talented. I love what they're doing because the quality of their recordings are top notch, especially original Analogue Master tape to DSD or Pure DSD recording.

There are other sites that offer more a variety of DSD64 (SACD) and upwards of DSD128, I've taken an extract of this from my filing, below are artist I'll be hard pressed to find on NativeDSD. Some of these are DSD128 but most of these are DSD64 extractions from SACD that I was able to purchase online.

I am optimistic that the DSD catalogue will expand eventually because nearly all DACs/Streamers are DSD enable. Mind you MQA is pointless, DSD has a more secure footing.

 

[Dave_]

A lot of words to not answer what is a yes or no question!

 

[abacus]

SACD is DSD and is where DSD came from.
NOTE: The master for a CD is usually not the same as that used for SACD (DSD), and as the master determines how good the recording is, that's what makes the most difference.

Bill

 

[spl84]

I can just see myself

SACD is DSD and is where DSD came from.
NOTE: The master for a CD is usually not the same as that used for SACD (DSD), and as the master determines how good the recording is, that's what makes the most difference.

Bill

Really? Well you learn something new everyday... So If I'm listening to an SACD then I'm essentially listening to DSD audio?

 

[Gray]

It's a fair question, Gray. I'm glad you asked.

It's an essential question for us black or white merchants Jason.
He may be your arch enemy, but I'm sure you can understand why Dave says you haven't given a clear yes or no to the 'always' question.

Yes, DSD has a different tonal signature to CD

That tells me yes

if you're familiar with the sound of DSD, you should be able recognized the differences when it's played and when a CD is played.

But that 'should' tells me no 🤔

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm taking it that, no, you can't always tell whether you're listening to DSD.

No problem with that - I would suggest that most people could never tell.

 

[Revolutions]

 

[manicm]

I can just see myself

Really? Well you learn something new everyday... So If I'm listening to an SACD then I'm essentially listening to DSD audio?

He's correct there, just as CDs are encoded in PCM, and not WAV as some incorrectly think, SACDs underlying encoding system was/is DSD.

 

[manicm]

SACD is DSD and is where DSD came from.
NOTE: The master for a CD is usually not the same as that used for SACD (DSD), and as the master determines how good the recording is, that's what makes the most difference.

Bill

You're partially correct - incidentally. By default CDs and SACDs can NEVER have the same master simply because they use two completely different encoding systems.

The hifi company PS Audio have their own Octave label - they record exclusively in DSD, but will use that master for the vinyl as well. They sell SACDs, LPs, and maybe downloads too (not sure).

 

[Jasonovich]

I can just see myself

Really? Well you learn something new everyday... So If I'm listening to an SACD then I'm essentially listening to DSD audio?

Essentially the same Bitstream processing.
SACD is limited to DSD64 2.8 million oversampling.
DSD downloads can exceed SACD oversampling, from 2.8 million to 22 million up to DSD512, though I have seen DSD1024, which is crazy bonkers 🙂. Very few DACs go beyond DSD512, that's become the norm.

 

[Jasonovich]

It's an essential question for us black or white merchants Jason.
He may be your arch enemy, but I'm sure you can understand why Dave says you haven't given a clear yes or no to the 'always' question.

That tells me yes

But that 'should' tells me no 🤔

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm taking it that, no, you can't always tell whether you're listening to DSD.

No problem with that - I would suggest that most people could never tell.

I only speak how I see it, it is subjective.

When I'm at work, I'm a black and white merchant too, I can't change the figures on the balance sheet, I can accrue or make projections on costs, so it's really great in the realm of HiFi I'm like everyone else, who's entitled to have an opinion 🙂
Yes I'm pretty sure, if I'm playing on a high resolution system, I will hear difference between CDs and DSD but I may struggle if I'm using my laptop or Raspberry Pi.
If someone tells me there's no difference in sound quality, it doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

I have Dave on my ignore list so better I refrain from making any further comments 🤔

All the best 😉

 

[record_spot]

A lot of words to not answer what is a yes or no question!

There's a noticeable difference between a good DSD released recording played on a native DSD playback player. and a different format counterpart elsewhere.

You're welcome.

 

[Dave_]

You're welcome.

What, for answering a different question than asked with more subjectivity?

 

[record_spot]

What, for answering a different question than asked with more subjectivity?

You wanted an answer Dave, and you got one. Not my problem that you don't like it. Off you pop and try it for yourself.

 

[Jasonovich]

There's a noticeable difference between a good DSD released recording played on a native DSD playback player. and a different format counterpart elsewhere.

You're welcome.

Yes agree, it's same kind of difference you hear between CD and vinyl. 🙂

 

[abacus]

You're partially correct - incidentally. By default CDs and SACDs can NEVER have the same master simply because they use two completely different encoding systems.

The hifi company PS Audio have their own Octave label - they record exclusively in DSD, but will use that master for the vinyl as well. They sell SACDs, LPs, and maybe downloads too (not sure).

"and maybe downloads too (not sure)."
They do indeed, also have a listen to Octave Radio, which although compressed for bandwidth reasons, it sounds way better than it should. (This is because they take great care in their recording systems)
BTW: If you want to learn more about SACD & DSD, Paul has done a number of short videos explaining the differences' in his daily videos on You Tube.

Bill

 

[record_spot]

Yes agree, it's same kind of difference you hear between CD and vinyl. 🙂

I guess that depends on what you're listening to and the mastering, slightly more than format. I've several CDs that are wonderfully analogue in how they sound. Some of those are from the earlier runs of CD pressings in the early to mid-80s.

(But I get your point in general!)

 

[manicm]

HiFi Choice have just given the Fell Audio Amp/CD, a 1k combo, a glowing recommendation. The tonality and soundstage were outstanding, and they preferred the CDP connected via digital to the amp, albeit they share the same DAC chip. So that confirms the digital section is not a cheap afterthought. And that opens up similarly priced CDT alternatives like the SMSL PL200T too.

For those in the UK lamenting the demise of the entry level 6 series Marantz, well here's your answer.

 

[Jasonovich]

HiFi News have just given the Fell Audio Amp/CD, a 1k combo, a glowing recommendation. The tonality and soundstage were outstanding, and they preferred the CDP connected via digital to the amp, albeit they share the same DAC chip. So that confirms the digital section is not a cheap afterthought.

For those in the UK lamenting the demise of the entry level 6 series Marantz, well here's your answer.

That's good to hear, I wish the Tyson Bros my best wishes. I really hope their foray into HiFi manufacturing pays dividends.

 

[manicm]

That's good to hear, I wish the Tyson Bros my best wishes. I really hope their foray into HiFi manufacturing pays dividends.

They want to go global, but tariffs may have seen to that.

 

[Jasonovich]

They want to go global, but tariffs may have seen to that.

The Orange Soprano is creating havoc across the globe. Hopefully the non-US markets will open up for them.

 

[nopiano]

The Orange Soprano is creating havoc across the globe. Hopefully the non-US markets will open up for them.

Is that one of Donald Trump’s relatives?