Cartridge suggestion

[BenWatts]

Ho ok. You have to prove things.

 

[nopiano]

The styli WILL fit but the performance will not be the same Red and Blue styli are interchangeable in their respective bodies, the same applies to bronze and black bodies and styli (I have all four of them). If you think the red is an awful cartridge with a high frequency emphasis I am worried about either your ears, the rest of your system or your ability to set up a cartridge. If anything it is a little lacking in treble output, sweetness and detail but with a good low end dynamics and vocal range. The blue is sweeter in the treble but with a little less dynamic impact but a better stereo image.
Just goes to show that recommendations are very individual and you really need to audition for your self, as no one will hear what you do. One man’s meat as they say!

Yes, Ortofon always state that the Red model in each range is the mellowest sounding. I also remember the demos that Ortofon ran a few years ago where this was clearly evident. Ideal for a more budget system.

 

[Al ears]

Yes, Ortofon always state that the Red model in each range is the mellowest sounding. I also remember the demos that Ortofon ran a few years ago where this was clearly evident. Ideal for a more budget system.

Well there's mellow and there's revealing.
Take your pick.
The best Ortofons, to my ears , have always been the Bronze.

 

[Rui]

I have a 2MR Red on my P3, which replaced an Elys2. It was an improvement in sound, tracks very well with no IGD, and leaves me to get on with enjoying my LPs. I've owned all sorts over the years, including a Sumiko Evo III Blue Point Special on a Michell TecnoArm/TecnoDec, and while I won't pretend this sounds as good as that, it's no slouch for the money. I'd say the 2MR range is a good option for the P3.

I´m not critising but the P3 and 2m red are not close to what was cheap in the 90´s in terms of quality of reading the records grooves and the building quality,

just saying. As an example what in 96/97 used to cost what today is 150€ the full automatic technics turntable but saw also with belt drive turntables of the same design from technics also with estroboscope and manual settings for 120€ and today when tested the specifications are still like new.

While new ones around 1.000€ from Pro-ject, as i tested them, Rega i could hear them but not do test to it, only to say that even new the specifications refered when measured are under the ones refered,

and with a month of use not even closer quality and some parts start to weaken fastly as i´m still using 70´s turntables with a very high quality in sound, i guess the 70´s were the best for high quality components, in 1980 all came down to a level so low that one couldn´t believe at the time

 

[Rui]

Well there's mellow and there's revealing.
Take your pick.
The best Ortofons, to my ears , have always been the Bronze.

Starting in the cadenza series it seems the sound of old Ortofon in their cheap MM cartridges, i ended up buying the so many times refered as great , the 2M Black,

but was a bit of a let down , as it sounds good but not detailed as others more old , it as more high´s but that depth in sound it´s missing, or even what some call warm sound,

and i´m not comparing it with old and expensive cartridges but regular ones, MM type

 

[Rui]

Yes, Ortofon always state that the Red model in each range is the mellowest sounding. I also remember the demos that Ortofon ran a few years ago where this was clearly evident. Ideal for a more budget system.

don´t know why but i feel that it´s the reverse, but there´s a logic in your comment as the better sounding system one has, including the turntable ,

a simple but faithfull to the sound in the record, cartridge, will sound much better as the system itself provides a better sound, has already been well reproduced the cartridge and stylus,

i think it´s this, as it makes me remmenber the technics 205 X(built by Nagaoka, as all till early 80´s, after all were built by Audio-Technica) ,it´s lower in volume and sounds more or less like the 2m red

 

[daytona600]

• 
  
• 
• tracks any record at 1.25g
• 5 - 100,000 Hz (± 3 dB) made in 1980 & 100khz still never beaten in almost 5 decades
• Lowest moving mass until 2014 & the $12,000 grado epoch
• with a Jico SAS stylus still beats most cartridges at any price

.

 

[Rui]

• 
  
• View attachment 10858
• tracks any record at 1.25g
• 5 - 100,000 Hz (± 3 dB) made in 1980 & 100khz still never beaten in almost 5 decades
• Lowest moving mass until 2014 & the $12,000 grado epoch
• with a Jico SAS stylus still beats most cartridges at any price

.View attachment 10859

This is one i´m still using ,very clean sound only mine is the mark X(10) is in a 79 SL-1310 mk II i´m using at the moment ,

only lost the litle front letters as it were inserted in new stylus casing side grabing lines on the front of the stylus casing,

i used to buy susbstitution needles from Huco a swiss brand and found them better built than Jico ones, not that they weren´t good but this brand was top quality stylus when mafgnified with binocular lenses, i had still in 2020 a PL-430 ,

first released in caqui colour in 82/83 it had a brown AT cartridge and originally a green stylus like the cheapest one in yellow,

that i bought the yellow bought from a old technician that is no longer able to do most of the work he still has in his oficine or worshop(not sure of the correct word)old new substitution stylus but the most known are gone, this was the last AT with this casing but less good in reference with a AT brown cartridge,

i´m saying this as i didn´t gave much atention to the turntable as it was stored and didn´t knew how it sounded, but the plastic part was only the top part ,looking like late 80´s and early 90´s black and the logo of the time,

so i put it to work and sounded amazing and was heavy as it was the model under the top one, and bellow the plastic top frame was all in metal fabricated,

all of this to say that it sounded a lot better than my new just bought 2M black from Ortofon but far better not even comparable, it had a tonearm in a material exclusive for Pioneer low mass tonearm that the drawers in cd player from pioneer in 91, (not sure of the year).

They all had them built of this material and not a single level of how litle it could be as ressonance , this in a cd player i had bought already good the PD-7700 as after was released with the litle turntable with equal specifications and reference only the new look,

i remenber buying it as the specifications were like equal to the cd player transport and DAC(both joined made the size of the standart measures of all components from diferent brands some built them a centimeter more to look bigger,

this of the new Meridian system that was very nice looking and sober, today i repent not having bought it but the cd player in the spec.´s was in one of the measured output sound quality was better 0,001% than the Pioneer PD-7700,

i went for the Pioneer as i only paid what it cost to the seller as he showed me his suplied dossier of the pioneer components and prices of each ,having a limit price and i could see the value as it was what it costed to him a friend of mine with a music store, could pay from 3 to 5 times depending of how high was the price, has he had to pay it in total, when receiving it

 

[Rui]

It’s remarkable we have such a range today, when forty years ago LPs almost vanished. And that’s just their MMs. There are at least two ranges of MC plus the top of the range named models!

Only a pitty they all are so low quality in sound and built material , very weak. when in the past regarding cartridges and stylus ,

i used to say like for other components, "when in doubt buy Ortofon" ,

as i only knew this brand in a 77 B series Revox turntable, tangential(from my father) , all inside the rectangular box that we put on top of the record is Ortofon,

and sounded amazing good and in the 1996 TD2001 from Thorens , a litle personalized came with a Ortofon MC cartridge in blue a MK II but can´t remember the reference but was optional to other cartridge from Denon, suplied with the turntable