Car Hi-Fi...is it possible?

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Is it possible to create a real hi-fi system in a car? My future car is going to be the family 2004 Renault Megane 5dr 1.6 Dynamique...the current hi-fi system is a 40x4watt amplifier with 6cd changer with two bass/mid/treble drivers in the rear (door mounted) two bass/mid drivers in the front (low door mounted) and two tweeters on the dashboard in the corners. The hi-fi system is, simply put, awful...but then apart from a Lexus IS200...all car hi-fi I have heard have been awful! Inc.. Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD Overland Boston Acoustics one (mum's car) and BMW M3 Harmon/Kardon (dad's car). I have a budget around £1500, which makes the hi-fi worth nearly more than the car! But I have about a year to get it all done...with dad's help. I'd like audiophile quality...not flashy lights and stupid amounts of bass. Although a bit of bass wouldn't go amiss!!! he he he... Oh, and I thought I would add that it has two sunroofs (front one opens, back one doesn't). Cheers! I'll post some pics if I need to! Just ask! Any suggestions appreciated! : ) : ) : ).
 

Thaiman

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My boss (yes, the wife!) is driving 07 Dynamique, I don't know if it's the same stereo unit inside but it doesn't sound bad at all!

I will keep a close eyes on this thread though as I think my aging car stereo could do with big improvment....post away people.
 
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Anonymous

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Really? Wow, I always thought it sounded really harsh with no bass or mid to speak of...and forget it going loud! Although, yours may be the Cabasse version which is very good! I tried googling it, however all the people prioritise bass and loudness over everything else! All of the good ones seem to be 4 channel also...well as CDs are only 2 channel, what is the point in this?
 

fatboyslimfast

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The only stereo I have found that sounds near-hifi was the ProLogicII system (factory fitted) in my old S60 Volvo. It was truly astonishing for a car stereo, as all the components were custom-designed purely for the S60 acoustics.

I have yet to find an aftermarket system for cars that is tailored towards hifi rather than volume.

Sorry I can't be more help - I'm trying to get a great sound in my wife's Cooper S, but just can't seem to get a sound that I/She likes, without it either being to shrill, or too boomy...
 

Thaiman

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Hughes....sorry off topic but the 1.6 is very under power for the size mate, honestly. I am moan everytime I drive her car!
 
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Anonymous

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It's eminently possible to get a very decent sound in a car. Over the years I've tested dozens of car installations carried out by both mainstream manufacturers and aftermarket specialists (I'm a guest expert on the What Car? site right now, in fact) and the audio specialists I've interviewed over the years have some surprising views on car audio.

First, the advantages. As an acoustician, you're dealing with a constant volume (the car's interior), which doesn't vary, unlike living rooms the world over. You're aware of the material construction of each boundary - again, unlike living rooms, which could be brick, wood, lined with drapes or completely reflective, depending on the home. And you know, beyond doubt, where your speakers are going to be placed within that acoustic space (sometimes, with less-than-ideal results, but at least you know, and so can work around it). You also know what the partnering equipment and wiring for your speakers will be.

The disadvantages are obvious, of course. First, you're fighting against a noisy environment: it's no accident that the most impressive in-car hi-fi systems I've heard have been fitted to the quietest cars. Second, your driver is unlikely to be sitting in the ideal spot: he or she will almost certainly be too close to the right-hand speakers, for starters. And third, few (if any) of the component parts in most car installations are worth a light: the drive units are massed-produced and cheap, the amplification is low-grade, and the head units are functioning sources, but little more. Incidentally, several designers I've spoken to swear blind that integrated CD/DVD/sat nav systems sound worse than dedicated CD head units, which makes sense, even if it also seems a little extreme.

Anyway: if you're fitting an aftermarket system to your car, you need to see a specialist. With your budget, you'll be able to get something very, very good indeed, no question about it: i'd expect you to get replacement drive units, Dynamat acoustic resonance damping in the doors, better power amplification, a higher-quality head unit and a standalone crossover, plus (probably) a dedicated subwoofer enclosure in the boot. And I'm not talking about a thud-thud-thud boom box: I mean a proper subwoofer.

I'm not here to sell to anyone, as you know, but last year I carried out a big What Car? test piece, part of which involved getting an upgraded system installed in a Ford Focus. I contacted BBG Distribution (http://www.bbg.eu.com/incar_division.html, 01923 205610) and they put me on to a local dealer who specialised in installing their kit. I suggest you do the same.
 
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Anonymous

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Hughes my man. I would err against installing car hifi. I used to mess about with it a lot, I had quite the little orchestra in my Nissan.
The fact is you can construct an amazing system in a car to be sure, but there will always be huge drawbacks.

1. The inside of a moving car, (even a very expensive one) has a lot of noise pollution thanks to environment, tire noise, engine etc.
2. You're always distracted by driving, I've moved off car audio because I realized it's a lot of money for a stereo that you never are able to give your undivided attention to.
3. Goofy acoustics. The inside of a car is a far-cry from a proper listening room. And on top of it you sit in a corner. Balancing the whole thing out is problematic.
4. No such thing as an in-car audition. You've got to buy based on listening in the showroom, and we all know that's never good. The equipment never sounds the same in your car.

Anyway, long and the short is, when you first get a ride it's so tempting to put a cherry system in there. But the money would be so much more enjoyed elsewhere... spend it on your real hifi, or a boss tv or something.
 

Thaiman

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[quote user="Andy Kerr"] if you're fitting an aftermarket system to your car, you need to see a specialist. With your budget, you'll be able to get something very, very good indeed[/quote]

How much cash we are talking here Mr. K? I wouldn't like to spend more than £500, Is it possible?
 
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Anonymous

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Well first of all, a huge thankyou to Andy for his absolutly stunning response! Summed the question up very well! I will see a specialist (great if somebody could suggest some) and see what they suggest. And I know what you are saying Ray about it being less than perfect, but I really do want to give it a shot...I like a challenge!

Now this may sound wiered, but how do the drivers sound correct when they don't have a large box behiend them? I've taken drivers out of their casing many times and they sound pretty awful.
 
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Anonymous

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I've got great sounds in my 15 year old Hi-lux.

£350 Alpine head unit.

9" mid/drivers in the doors

h/f units on the very front edge of the doors.

sound-proof matting in the doors.

top notch,about £600 all in.it ain't like my lounge but it's pretty good for an old pick-up.

used to use kenwood until I saw the (Alpine) light.
 

fatboyslimfast

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[quote user="Hughes123"]how do the drivers sound correct when they don't have a large box behiend them? I've taken drivers out of their casing many times and they sound pretty awful.[/quote]

It's not the box.. it's the stopping-the-sound-from-the-back-cancelling-out-the-sound-at-the-front that does it. A huge panel with a single speaker in it will sound roughly the same as a huge box.

So the car door skin is acting as the baffle, stopping the bass from the back cancelling the sound from the front out...
 
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Anonymous

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Ah right! So surely then, can I not just get some B&W FST drivers and some nautilus loaded tweeters, add an REL Quake in the boot, add two 2 channel amps and a mono for the sub, add a CD player and call that a day?
 

fatboyslimfast

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well, you could do, except that the B&Ws will be designed for a tuned enclosure like a ported box, and also will probably be 8ohm, whereas most car stereos work best with 2-4ohm drivers.

Unless you are going to run a few huge power inverters in the boot and get a couple of Krells...
emotion-5.gif
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="fatboyslimfast"]well, you could do, except that the B&Ws will be designed for a tuned enclosure like a ported box, and also will probably be 8ohm, whereas most car stereos work best with 2-4ohm drivers.

Unless you are going to run a few huge power inverters in the boot and get a couple of Krells...
emotion-5.gif
[/quote]

Why not?!
 
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Anonymous

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Although even inverters at £500 still have 2% distortion and 85% accuracy! What about that big Class-D Rotel amplifier?
 
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Anonymous

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Fatboyslimfast is spot on here. Hughest123, you need to use dedicated speakers to suit the acoustic space you're working with, not adapt domestic hi-fi drive units. If it's high-end speaker cachet you're after, those folks from BBG Distribution I mentioned before offer Focal in-car kit, which is pretty extraordinary. On that subject, the installer I used last year for the What Car? piece (couldn't find his details earlier, sorry) was David Gray at The Sound Gallery in High Wycombe (01494 464670). He was excellent - he's worth a call even if he's miles away from you, if only because he might be able to recommend someone he trusts in your area. Tell him I sent you.

Thaiman, with £500 or so, you'll have less scope for upgrading your front end or incorporating a subwoofer/crossover, but you could readily change, say, your main door speakers, plus incorporate a better power amp. Even that apparently modest step would be a big improvement. If you can find a few more quid, you might manage to get your doors filled with Dynamat resonance damping, too (well worth it).
 
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Anonymous

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High Wycombe is just a few dots down the M40 for me! I will defiently check them out! I've got some months to get a system I want so there is no real rush.

The ultimate Megane, and not a body kit in sight! And I must do something about that 115bhp...who said chipping?
 

Thaiman

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Mr. K, if you could include one off article about Car sound system in WHF issue I promise I will buy 2 copies instead of 1
emotion-21.gif
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Hughes123"][quote user="fatboyslimfast"]well, you could do, except that the B&Ws will be designed for a tuned enclosure like a ported box, and also will probably be 8ohm, whereas most car stereos work best with 2-4ohm drivers.

Unless you are going to run a few huge power inverters in the boot and get a couple of Krells...
emotion-5.gif
[/quote]

Why not?!

[/quote]

Because some light fingered hooligans will probably break into your car.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
[quote user="Masterbluster"]
[quote user="Hughes123"][quote user="fatboyslimfast"]well, you could do, except that the B&Ws will be designed for a tuned enclosure like a ported box, and also will probably be 8ohm, whereas most car stereos work best with 2-4ohm drivers.

Unless you are going to run a few huge power inverters in the boot and get a couple of Krells...
emotion-5.gif
[/quote]

Why not?!

[/quote]

Because some light fingered hooligans will probably break into your car.
[/quote]

Who's going to break into a bright red Renault Megane with a smily face, two sunroofs that make it flex more than Kate Bush on the Wuthering Heights video and a big backside? Wouldn't get 'em much street-cred would it!
 
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Anonymous

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[quote user="Hughes123"]High Wycombe is just a few dots down the M40 for me! I will defiently check them out! I've got some months to get a system I want so there is no real rush.

The ultimate Megane, and not a body kit in sight! And I must do something about that 115bhp...who said chipping?[/quote]

Unless she's turbo charged you wont get much from a chip.
Sell the Frenchman, buy 2nd hand VW Passat 1.8T Estate which will free up a fair bit cash with which you can spend on that car hifi!

- Rapid(ish) Family & luggage car (which will go like stink with a £400 chip..........)
- Nice sounds
- Good build quality
- sorted!
 
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Anonymous

Guest
[quote user="Andy Kerr"]
Thaiman, with £500 or so, you'll have less scope for upgrading your front end or incorporating a subwoofer/crossover, but you could readily change, say, your main door speakers, plus incorporate a better power amp. Even that apparently modest step would be a big improvement. If you can find a few more quid, you might manage to get your doors filled with Dynamat resonance damping, too (well worth it).[/quote] for less than that i think i got myself a set of infinity components for the front and a 12" sub with alpine mono block. Not the highest end, but better than the standard golf stuff.
 

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