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Cable lifters

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andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
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lindsayt said:
andyjm said:
In the spirit of balance, worth pointing out that suspending cables in free air will alter their capacitance from cable to ground, and any vibration on the cable will result in a change in resitance.

Both of these effects will be measurable, tiny and inaudible.
Measurable with what equipment?

My digital multimeter wouldn't be able to measure it.

I'm not convinced it would be measurable, even with the finest measuring equipment.

It's the sort of thing where the slightest difference in the connection to the measuring terminals would make more difference than the cable lifting.
I am not sure I would use your multimeter as indicative of the limits of scientific measurement. Depending on the length of the cable and how far you lift it, it could easily make 10s or 100s of pF difference. Completely irrelevant to the sound, but easily measurable by any decent capacitance meter.
 

Electro

Well-known member
Mar 30, 2011
43
3
18,545
ellisdj said:
Electro said:
Andrewjvt said:
The problem in trying all this crap is it feeds the obsession and paronia.

Once you have it, it's hard to rehabilitate.

Resist the urge and enjoy the actual music and not the hardware
Well said ! *good*

Saying that I have recently bought one of these 1.8m x 1.2m beasties and hung it on my ceiling.

http://www.rpgeurope.com/products/product/arc.html

And these .

http://www.rpgeurope.com/products/product/bad.html
Electro how do these proper panels compare to your very much diy ones ;)
I have left my home custom made acoutic objects in place *smile* because they work extremely well and I have hung the RPG BAD ARC panel to the ceiling at the first reflection point.

The other BAD panel is a huge it's 100mm thick and very heavy and I have placed it behind the listening position in front of the bi folding doors.

I bought them from a recording studio that has moved to a much bigger purpose built studio.

They have made a fantastic improvement to the imaging and detail level , the acoustic decay is as clean as a whistle plus a lot more focus.

I will post some pictures later .
 

ellisdj

New member
Dec 11, 2008
377
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I wasnt suggesting taking the exisiting out at this stage - just a comparison of the effects of pro built panels that have a designed in specific effect to ones that dont :)
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
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andyjm said:
]I am not sure I would use your multimeter as indicative of the limits of scientific measurement. Depending on the length of the cable and how far you lift it, it could easily make 10s or 100s of pF difference. Completely irrelevant to the sound, but easily measurable by any decent capacitance meter.
Have you done any measurements yourself?

Or do you know of anyone that's measured this capacitance difference?

Whilst lifting speaker cables might make as much difference as 10 pF, it's also possible that it might not.

And would any measured changes from lifting be swamped by things like changes in the cable temperature - eg from running it next to a radiator?
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
1,805
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They've been around a while Insider.

In the catagory marked, 'Ridiculous', I think they're intended to counteract the effect of floor vibration on cable performance (that well known problem)
 

nick8858

New member
Aug 8, 2011
29
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Agree, old technology. Pointless baloney in my view and who wants stupid stuff like that scattered all over the floor. The extent some folk will go to to relieve us of our hard earned money. Complete tosh
 

Gazzip

New member
Jan 15, 2011
88
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0
Ahhh... a load more people posting about something they have never tried and yet who are still prepared to dismiss it. I do love a bit of unprovoked bigotry.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
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0
Gazzip said:
Ahhh... a load more people posting about something they have never tried and yet who are still prepared to dismiss it. I do love a bit of unprovoked bigotry.
Gazzip,

As I posted above, given some knowledge and experience, there are a range of proposed modifications on this forum that fall firmly into the 'crackpot' category.

I think we would all agree that poking a needle in your eye is a bad idea - without in fact ever having tried it.

I am afraid that cable lifters are similar. Given some basic electrical knowledge and some experience I can tell - without ever having tried it - that it is a crackpot idea.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
lindsayt said:
andyjm said:
]I am not sure I would use your multimeter as indicative of the limits of scientific measurement. Depending on the length of the cable and how far you lift it, it could easily make 10s or 100s of pF difference. Completely irrelevant to the sound, but easily measurable by any decent capacitance meter.
Have you done any measurements yourself?

Or do you know of anyone that's measured this capacitance difference?

Whilst lifting speaker cables might make as much difference as 10 pF, it's also possible that it might not.

And would any measured changes from lifting be swamped by things like changes in the cable temperature - eg from running it next to a radiator?
I have not measured the capacitance change by lifting a speaker cable, but I have measured significant capacitance changes made by moving cables around inside electronic equipment. Lifting a speaker cable will certainly change the ground to cable capacitance - inaudibly.

Temperature effects everthing when it comes to electronics. Warming the cable will change its dimensions, and everything (capacitance, resistance, inductance) will change. Measurable, but inaudible.

Best thing to do with a speaker cable is not to put it on stands, but to cut off any excess.

A short cable is a good cable.
 

Gazzip

New member
Jan 15, 2011
88
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0
andyjm said:
Gazzip said:
Ahhh... a load more people posting about something they have never tried and yet who are still prepared to dismiss it. I do love a bit of unprovoked bigotry.
Gazzip,

As I posted above, given some knowledge and experience, there are a range of proposed modifications on this forum that fall firmly into the 'crackpot' category.

I think we would all agree that poking a needle in your eye is a bad idea - without in fact ever having tried it.

I am afraid that cable lifters are similar. Given some basic electrical knowledge and some experience I can tell - without ever having tried it - that it is a crackpot idea.
Andyjm,

Your needle in the eye analogy is not relevant. Avoiding the infliction of pain on one's self is an automatic response we are all born with, or at least we learn very early on in our development that this is a bad idea.

You appear to have some (more than basic) electrical knowledge, and have therefore developed an "educated" opinion in this matter. This I can respect. Alas many of the others who are vocally poo-poo-ing the concept of cable lifting and are lambasting those who suggest it as a tweak, have a) never tried it so have no primary point of reference, and b) have no demonstrable electrical knowledge on which to make such an educated opinion.

That, good sir, is pure uneducated bigotry which is something that gets right on my nipples.
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
1,805
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I've got some bits of paper that say I qualified as an Electronics Service Engineer but that's irrelevant.

Only the most gullible would not agree that the idea of cable lifters is beyond stupid.
 

Gazzip

New member
Jan 15, 2011
88
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0
Gray said:
I've got some bits of paper that say I qualified as an Electronics Service Engineer but that's irrelevant.

Only the most gullible would not agree that the idea of cable lifters is beyond stupid.
Your view point appears to be backed up by a relevant qualification. Well done. Give yourself a star.
 

andyjm

New member
Jul 20, 2012
15
0
0
In Sir Isaac's case, I think it was around his eye, not directly in it. I recall reading that he went partialy blind for a period of time after this experiment.
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
1,018
511
6,070
ellisdj said:
I have always wanted to try it - these are on of those things I think to look at when you have your house properly in order.

Acoustics

Freq Reponse

Kit Quality

Mains

Cables

Isolation
Ok, let's say I've got the first three sorted. Little tweaks now nothing major. Maybe a couple of bass traps and sorting out proper room correction filters in DSP which I decided I will be using.

Is Mains really next? I was thinking Isolation... particularly under speakers. I've built a tack recently and I'm happy with improvements. And yes they are measurable.

My gut feeling more than anything and then cables with mains last. Advice would be welcome.
 

Gazzip

New member
Jan 15, 2011
88
0
0
insider9 said:
ellisdj said:
I have always wanted to try it - these are on of those things I think to look at when you have your house properly in order.

Acoustics

Freq Reponse

Kit Quality

Mains

Cables

Isolation
Ok, let's say I've got the first three sorted. Little tweaks now nothing major. Maybe a couple of bass traps and sorting out proper room correction filters in DSP which I decided I will be using.

Is Mains really next? I was thinking Isolation... particularly under speakers. I've built a tack recently and I'm happy with improvements. And yes they are measurable.

My gut feeling more than anything and then cables with mains last. Advice would be welcome.
Surely all cables are ever going to do (if anything) is mess with the FR? Why go to the expense and result uncertainty of tweaking with cables if you are going to use DSP, which will simply correct those shifts?
 

insider9

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2016
1,018
511
6,070
They could potentially impact on overall distortion of the whole system. And if that's the case I'd be prepared to go through with it. I might be wrong about this.
 
May 24, 2016
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I've yet to see any technical data to back up the cliams, for or against. Could someone provide some? Until someone does, i'll put it down to psychoacoustics.

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm - 'facepalm' doesn't quite cover this one
 

MajorFubar

New member
Mar 3, 2010
690
3
0
I once used to think that those of us who know better have an obligation to protect the vulnerable/uninformed from their own naivety, and with that in mind, these kind of products, along with daft mains cables, £250 fuses and audiophile-calibre USB/LAN cables deserve to be properly and publicly outed as the cons that they so are.

Then I joined this place, and got a rude awakening. Because when I first told someone hey you are being royally screwed, spend your hard-earned on something less sketchy (I forget the exact circumstances), I was told in no uncertain terms to go shove my advice where the sun don't shine. And I don't mean Glasgow.

So these days I'm like, you know what...you want to be gullible and waste your money? Go right ahead. My regret? I didn't think of all these money-making scams first.
 

Gray

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2015
1,805
1,171
13,570
MajorFubar said:
My regret? I didn't think of all these money-making scams first.
Think of an idea too ridiculous to be an April Fool's joke, something like Cable Lifters (FFS). Next, just use your imagination to explain the science. Finally, set a ludicrous price. Done (they will be)
 

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