CA DacMagic Vs MF V-DAC Vs Beresford TC-7510 - WHF Vs HFW Results

[Ajani]

It's interesting to see how different HiFi mags can see products differently:

Here on WHF the results for the DAC shootout were:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic - 5 Stars

Musical Fidelity V-DAC - 4 Stars

Beresford TC-7510 - 5 Stars

While in HiFi World the results were reversed:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic - 4 Globes and $

Musical Fidelity V-DAC - 5 Globes

Beresford TC-7510 - 4 Globes

Also interesting is that the overall descriptions of the sound of each product seemed pretty similiar across both mags, but the products prefered differed completely.

 

[SteveR750]

Are you surprised? After all its all just someone's opinion - like car mags read enough of them and eventually you will find a tester who thinks like you, thus you can extrapolate with greater confidence. At the end of the day this is a forum for a mag that has to sell numbers to make the business plan, so its no more or less *right* than the dealers that post on here, and WHF is arguably the most commercial of them all right now.

 

[Ajani]

SteveR750:Are you surprised? After all its all just someone's opinion - like car mags read enough of them and eventually you will find a tester who thinks like you, thus you can extrapolate with greater confidence. At the end of the day this is a forum for a mag that has to sell numbers to make the business plan, so its no more or less *right* than the dealers that post on here, and WHF is arguably the most commercial of them all right now.
Nope, I'm not suprised... I just find it interesting to read different perspectives on the same products... especially in the case of the same 3 items in 2 group tests... It's more a reminder of the problem with buying items solely based on reviews... Reviews can be very useful in describing the sonic traits of certain products, but determining whether you will like those traits is something only you can do...

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Ajani:
It's interesting to see how different HiFi mags can see products differently:

Here on WHF the results for the DAC shootout were:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic - 5 Stars

Musical Fidelity V-DAC - 4 Stars

Beresford TC-7510 - 5 Stars

While in HiFi World the results were reversed:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic - 4 Globes and $

Musical Fidelity V-DAC - 5 Globes

Beresford TC-7510 - 4 Globes

Also interesting is that the overall descriptions of the sound of each product seemed pretty similiar across both mags, but the products prefered differed completely.

Another HiFi mag gave the DacMagic, product of the year (and that is out of all the products).

 

[John Duncan]

There are other hifi mags?

 

[Clare Newsome]

SteveR750:Are you surprised? After all its all just someone's opinion - like car mags read enough of them and eventually you will find a tester who thinks like you, thus you can extrapolate with greater confidence. At the end of the day this is a forum for a mag that has to sell numbers to make the business plan, so its no more or less *right* than the dealers that post on here, and WHF is arguably the most commercial of them all right now.

Definitely room in the world for different opinions - but let's try some facts here .

Dealers tend to favour the products they stock/sell. We are independent - just wanted to remind everyone of that.

The only way we're the 'most commercial' of the magazines is being the most successful - and a lot of that is due to the investment in staff, resources and publishing infrastructure (subscriptions; distribution etc) that rivals aren't prepared to make.

It's also down to our team of testers - so it's never that one tester's opinion - and our performance-per-pound criteria. The HFW test comes to broadly similar conclusions to ourselves, but doesn't make its final judgement based on value - fair enough, that's not their credo. It is, however, ours.

 

[JoelSim]

Gerrardasnails:Ajani:

It's interesting to see how different HiFi mags can see products differently:

Here on WHF the results for the DAC shootout were:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic - 5 Stars

Musical Fidelity V-DAC - 4 Stars

Beresford TC-7510 - 5 Stars

While in HiFi World the results were reversed:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic - 4 Globes and $

Musical Fidelity V-DAC - 5 Globes

Beresford TC-7510 - 4 Globes

Also interesting is that the overall descriptions of the sound of each product seemed pretty similiar across both mags, but the products prefered differed completely.

Another HiFi mag gave the DacMagic, product of the year (and that is out of all the products).

Another HiFi mag gave the Arcam A38 product of the year, whereas...

 

[Clare Newsome]

...though that self-same mag appears to have changed its opinion of that current Arcam range if the latest issue is indicative.

 

[Anonymous]

Well....I have a Dacmagic and a V dac....I have the Dacmagic on my main system (shown below) and the V dac on my headphone system (connected direct to my PC and a Meier Arietta amp, HD650 phones)

Tried it the other way round but the sound didnt seem as full on the main system. Saying that though, the phones sound OK with either......

Once again, the result is the combination of all links in the chain.....

Yes, I know that both dacs are outclassed by the rest of the components but no upgrade is planned until I get some more pennies....

..quite a few pennies at that. As Fagin said...'charity's fine, subscribe to mine'.....

 

[SteveR750]

Clare Newsome:
SteveR750:Are you surprised? After all its all just someone's opinion - like car mags read enough of them and eventually you will find a tester who thinks like you, thus you can extrapolate with greater confidence. At the end of the day this is a forum for a mag that has to sell numbers to make the business plan, so its no more or less *right* than the dealers that post on here, and WHF is arguably the most commercial of them all right now.

Definitely room in the world for different opinions - but let's try some facts here .

Dealers tend to favour the products they stock/sell. We are independent - just wanted to remind everyone of that.

The only way we're the 'most commercial' of the magazines is being the most successful - and a lot of that is due to the investment in staff, resources and publishing infrastructure (subscriptions; distribution etc) that rivals aren't prepared to make.

It's also down to our team of testers - so it's never that one tester's opinion - and our performance-per-pound criteria. The HFW test comes to broadly similar conclusions to ourselves, but doesn't make its final judgement based on value - fair enough, that's not their credo. It is, however, ours.

I accept your point about perhaps rating value for money more prominently than some of the other magazines, and of course (I hope!) there is no product bias from your test team, my point was not very well made, and it is more that testing is always subjective, and that ultimately the only *advantage* that a tester for a magazine has is that you get to hear a lot more kit than the rest of us do, and can therefore order and categorise equipment more accurately. However, some dealers also have the chance to listen to a wide range of equipment and could if honest enough also give an equally valid appraisal, though of course they do have stronger commercial interests in the products they sell.

My point about WHF being commercial is that peraps its not as *highbrow* as some of the other mags, which is prehaps why it sells so many. This is not a slur on it whatsoever, merely an observation on what differentiates your product in the market place! If you all (mags) came up with the same answers in the same way then there woldnt be much need for more than one magazine and the world would be a slightly less interesting place than it is.

 

[theadmans]

raym87:
Well....I have a Dacmagic and a V dac....I have
the Dacmagic on my main system (shown below) and the V dac on my
headphone system (connected direct to my PC and a Meier Arietta amp,
HD650 phones)

Tried it the other way round but the
sound didnt seem as full on the main system. Saying that though, the
phones sound OK with either......

Once again, the result is the combination of all links in the chain.....

Yes,
I know that both dacs are outclassed by the rest of the components but
no upgrade is planned until I get some more pennies....

..quite a
few pennies at that. As Fagin said...'charity's fine, subscribe to
mine'.....

...interesting that you think the Dacmagic has a fuller sound than the
V-Dac. I was erring towards getting the V-Dac as most reviews I have
seen indicate the V-Dac sounds richer in tone than the Dacmagic.
I have an old model Dacmagic 2 MK II at the moment and was looking for
something slightly smoother sounding to go with my AVI Neutron speakers.

Which issue of Hi-Fi World has the Dac reviews - is it the one just out this week?

 

[Ajani]

theadmans:raym87:
Well....I have a Dacmagic and a V dac....I havethe Dacmagic on my main system (shown below) and the V dac on myheadphone system (connected direct to my PC and a Meier Arietta amp,HD650 phones)

Tried it the other way round but thesound didnt seem as full on the main system. Saying that though, thephones sound OK with either......

Once again, the result is the combination of all links in the chain.....

Yes,I know that both dacs are outclassed by the rest of the components butno upgrade is planned until I get some more pennies....

..quite afew pennies at that. As Fagin said...'charity's fine, subscribe tomine'.....

...interesting that you think the Dacmagic has a fuller sound than theV-Dac. I was erring towards getting the V-Dac as most reviews I haveseen indicate the V-Dac sounds richer in tone than the Dacmagic. I have an old model Dacmagic 2 MK II at the moment and was looking forsomething slightly smoother sounding to go with my AVI Neutron speakers.

Which issue of Hi-Fi World has the Dac reviews - is it the one just out this week?

Yep... it's the current issue

 

[chebby]

So no-one is reviewing the Beresford TC-7520 despite it being available since March?

Well, I know it is brilliant and that is what matters to me

 

[pete321]

Clare Newsome:Dealers tend to favour the products they stock/sell. We are independent - just wanted to remind everyone of that.

I'll back you on that, especially bearing in mind most dealers don't seem to stock anywhere near the amount ranges they used to. I rely on WHF for information to a far greater extent than I would trust a dealer who might not stock the better product, or can make more profit by selling one particular product.

There is a but though, being the most succesful magazine means that there's an awful lot of money to be made if a company's product get's 5 stars, I'd like to see a bit more thought given to the performance-per-pound ratings and in particular, dock 'em star or 2 if problems become apparent post review when the masses get their hands on the product. My AVR600 springs to mind. The financial implications of this would mean manufacturers would fix issues far more promptly!

 

[Clare Newsome]

pete321:
My AVR600 springs to mind.

Odd that you should mention that - we've got Arcam engineers in the building right now, loading new firmware onto our AVR600. More info as/when we have it on prognosis.

 

[pete321]

Yeah, I've just been offered the beta test version by my dealer, but I said I'd wait until next week when it'll hopefully be released.

 

[chebby]

pete321:I'd like to see a bit more thought given to the performance-per-pound ratings and in particular, dock 'em star or 2 if problems become apparent post review when the masses get their hands on the product.

That's never going to happen. Take for example the epic threads about the Cyrus SE CD players and the problems (many) people had with the slot loading mechanism and inability to play some CDs. (And the trim on some of them scratching CDs.)

That rattled on for ages but the players still retained 5 stars.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Products have actually gone down in stars/been made illegible for Awards in the past, and i'm sure they will be again.

 

[pete321]

chebby: That's never going to happen. Take for example the epic threads about the Cyrus SE CD players and the problems (many) people had with the slot loading mechanism and inability to play some CDs. (And the trim on some of them scratching CDs.)

To be fair, I think the magazine is heading that way, e.g. Sony LCD's with their clouding issue, it's just a shame it took so long. It didn't help me much with my W2000, it wasn't until several replacement models later a star was docked because of it. Either way, you're still likely to get more trustworthy advice on a broader range of products (except Oppo - sorry couldn't resist it) than you would from a dealer.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

pete321:
chebby: That's never going to happen. Take for example the epic threads about the Cyrus SE CD players and the problems (many) people had with the slot loading mechanism and inability to play some CDs. (And the trim on some of them scratching CDs.)

To be fair, I think the magazine is heading that way, e.g. Sony LCD's with their clouding issue, it's just a shame it took so long. It didn't help me much with my W2000, it wasn't until several replacement models later a star was docked because of it. Either way, you're still likely to get more trustworthy advice on a broader range of products (except Oppo - sorry couldn't resist it) than you would from a dealer.

The reason it "took so long" is that the units reviewed in the past obviously didn't have the issue. I have the W2000 and have never seen any clouding. People can't expect the mag to order 10 screens and review each of them. They can only go by the unit they review.

 

[Clare Newsome]

pete321:

To be fair, I think the magazine is heading that way, e.g. Sony LCD's with their clouding issue, it's just a shame it took so long. It didn't help me much with my W2000, it wasn't until several replacement models later a star was docked because of it.

We have to see/hear it to write about it! If we request, buy and borrow repeated samples of a product and don't find a problem, then we can't comment directly - we can, however, provide these Forums with a platform for people who are having issues to raise/share them.

We can also add product-specific references in our Buyer's Guide - and the online reviews here - flagging up those issues to inform prospective buyers.

 

[Anonymous]

Ajani:theadmans:raym87:
Well....I have a Dacmagic and a V dac....I havethe Dacmagic on my main system (shown below) and the V dac on myheadphone system (connected direct to my PC and a Meier Arietta amp,HD650 phones)

Tried it the other way round but thesound didnt seem as full on the main system. Saying that though, thephones sound OK with either......

Once again, the result is the combination of all links in the chain.....

Yes,I know that both dacs are outclassed by the rest of the components butno upgrade is planned until I get some more pennies....

..quite afew pennies at that. As Fagin said...'charity's fine, subscribe tomine'.....

...interesting that you think the Dacmagic has a fuller sound than theV-Dac. I was erring towards getting the V-Dac as most reviews I haveseen indicate the V-Dac sounds richer in tone than the Dacmagic. I have an old model Dacmagic 2 MK II at the moment and was looking forsomething slightly smoother sounding to go with my AVI Neutron speakers.

Which issue of Hi-Fi World has the Dac reviews - is it the one just out this week?

Yep... it's the current issue

Well I can't find it - are you sure it is in the September 2009 Issue - what page? Sorry, maybe I did a "man look" as my wife calls it! ;-)

EDIT: Ignore me - Hi Fi World not What Hifi! Doh! Sorry!

 

[pete321]

Gerrardasnails:The reason it "took so long" is that the units reviewed in the past obviously didn't have the issue. I have the W2000 and have never seen any clouding. People can't expect the mag to order 10 screens and review each of them. They can only go by the unit they review.

Perhaps not, but you didn't have to look to far to find forums littered with complaints of a problem which Sony denied ever existed. I'm not an engineer, but the very fact that this problem appeared to range in seriousness from non-existent to really bad, suggests to me that it was fixable.

 

[Clare Newsome]

pete321:Yeah, I've just been offered the beta test version by my dealer, but I said I'd wait until next week when it'll hopefully be released.

Just had confirmation from Arcam - next release (not 1.9, but a 1.8 point release) will not be generally available next week. More on this thread shortly.... we've hijacked this thread long enough!

 

[Clare Newsome]

pete321:
Gerrardasnails:The reason it "took so long" is that the units reviewed in the past obviously didn't have the issue. I have the W2000 and have never seen any clouding. People can't expect the mag to order 10 screens and review each of them. They can only go by the unit they review.

Perhaps not, but you didn't have to look to far to find forums littered with complaints of a problem which Sony denied ever existed. I'm not an engineer, but the very fact that this problem appeared to range in seriousness from non-existent to really bad, suggests to me that it was fixable.

We didn't have a Forum/website back then - but we did (and still do) get plenty of letters, emails and phone calls; none I remember mentioned clouding on the W2000, despite many enquiries re set up.

Even last year we found it hard to track down sets with clouding - and when we did, we added comments to reviews, as mentioned.

This year, however, Sony's quality control seems to have taken a major nosedive....