I'm thinking of adding an inexpensive DAC to my Squeezebox and DVD/HDD player. The sound from each of these is fairly listenable, so will a DAC at about £300-400 make much difference? Recommendations please.
Budget DAC - worth it?
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Loan a Beresford dac off Stan, go to his website and email him to do it, that way if you are happy keep it and if not, no harm done to your pocket
idc
Well-known member
As for your budget of £3-400 you are in barron territory as far as DACs are concerned. From forum members the following DACs are well thought of; Beresford TC-7520, DacMagic and the Musical Fidelity V-DAC which are £100 to £230. I have the Firestone Fubar which is USB only, so no use to you. Its bigger brother is the Spitfire which has one optical and one digital input. With the Supplier (which I use and it makes a difference) it is £361 from Russ Andrews and probably cheaper from Firestone direct.
As for sound, can't comment with your present setup.
As for sound, can't comment with your present setup.
chebby
Well-known member
idc:....Beresford TC-7520, DacMagic and the Musical Fidelity V-DAC which are £100 to £230
The Beresford TC-7520 was £180 last time I looked.
Does that make the MF V-Dac £100 ?
The Beresford TC-7520 was £180 last time I looked.
Does that make the MF V-Dac £100 ?
idc
Well-known member
chebby:
idc:....Beresford TC-7520, DacMagic and the Musical Fidelity V-DAC which are £100 to £230
The Beresford TC-7520 was £180 last time I looked.
Does that make the MF V-Dac £100 ?
I was guestimating, the V-DAC is £150 ish.
idc:....Beresford TC-7520, DacMagic and the Musical Fidelity V-DAC which are £100 to £230
The Beresford TC-7520 was £180 last time I looked.
Does that make the MF V-Dac £100 ?
I was guestimating, the V-DAC is £150 ish.
Dacmagic is now £250.
You can now buy the Musical Fidelity V-dac for £129 - http://www.acton-gate-audio.co.uk/
Which is as good as half the price. Ordered mine yesterday, can't wait!
You can now buy the Musical Fidelity V-dac for £129 - http://www.acton-gate-audio.co.uk/
Which is as good as half the price. Ordered mine yesterday, can't wait!
If you pick yourself up a cheap Beresford as PJPro suggests and then spend a bit more by sending it to AudioUpgrades for a Level 2 or 3 upgrade and you'll have a DAC nearer a £1000 equivalent, that should make a big difference if you use decent analogue interconnects.
Good suggestions so far, I might investigate the Beresford.
Probably too expensive, but has anyone used the Lavry DA10 or DA11 - and what is the difference between them? thanks.
Probably too expensive, but has anyone used the Lavry DA10 or DA11 - and what is the difference between them? thanks.
keweller:
Dacmagic is now £250.
You can now buy the Musical Fidelity V-dac for £129 - http://www.acton-gate-audio.co.uk/
Which is as good as half the price. Ordered mine yesterday, can't wait!
What a disgrace adding £50 to the retail price since launch, I really dont feel that RS offer the value on Hi-Fi products that they used to!
Dacmagic is now £250.
You can now buy the Musical Fidelity V-dac for £129 - http://www.acton-gate-audio.co.uk/
Which is as good as half the price. Ordered mine yesterday, can't wait!
What a disgrace adding £50 to the retail price since launch, I really dont feel that RS offer the value on Hi-Fi products that they used to!
I don't usually defend Richer Sounds but your post is ignorant to the rising costs being incurred by retailers. We don't manufacture the product in this country therefore it is being imported, with sterling having lost so much value against the far east asian countries, then it costs us more sterling to bring up the product. Unfortunately retailers are left with little choice but to pass on some of these costs to the consumer. Believe me Richer Sounds are not and would not have been thrilled at having to move the price up by 25% because it is off putting but ultimately there is nothing holding sterling up, we don't manufacture anything, everything was built on paper, now the credit supply is being restricted, there is not even that, add to that pot that sterling has been devalued by interest rate policies to and you can see why Richer Sounds hands are tied.
hi fi newbie:I don't usually defend Richer Sounds but your post is ignorant to the rising costs being incurred by retailers. We don't manufacture the product in this country therefore it is being imported, with sterling having lost so much value against the far east asian countries, then it costs us more sterling to bring up the product. Unfortunately retailers are left with little choice but to pass on some of these costs to the consumer. Believe me Richer Sounds are not and would not have been thrilled at having to move the price up by 25% because it is off putting but ultimately there is nothing holding sterling up, we don't manufacture anything, everything was built on paper, now the credit supply is being restricted, there is not even that, add to that pot that sterling has been devalued by interest rate policies to and you can see why Richer Sounds hands are tied.
Work for RS do we??
It is my belief that one of the reasons that RS have increased the cost of the DM is not just due to economic pressure but also due to the limited number of rivals in the market place for a good quality USB DAC. The fact that forums such as this one and magazines have raved about its ability has indeed allowed RS to increase the price of this product without I would think affecting demand. I would guess if we saw an increase in the number of similarly priced rivals to the DM then the price would indeed reflect the competition in the market place and therefore would not have increased by £50. RS have to some extent pulled a fast one here but hey every rose has its thorn!
Work for RS do we??
It is my belief that one of the reasons that RS have increased the cost of the DM is not just due to economic pressure but also due to the limited number of rivals in the market place for a good quality USB DAC. The fact that forums such as this one and magazines have raved about its ability has indeed allowed RS to increase the price of this product without I would think affecting demand. I would guess if we saw an increase in the number of similarly priced rivals to the DM then the price would indeed reflect the competition in the market place and therefore would not have increased by £50. RS have to some extent pulled a fast one here but hey every rose has its thorn!
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby
Well-known member
Okay, accepting all that, how come the MF V-Dac is now down to £129 - £156 (depending on retailer)?
The Beresford DACs fluctuate in price depending on currency/exchange but have recently come down from a 'high' of around £189 (inc VAT) to £172.50 (£149.99 + VAT) at the moment. They are built in the far-east too.
How did both Naim and Rega (and others) manage to keep price rises to 3 - 5 percent this year?
How come respected products by imported brands like Yamaha come down in price after the same amount of time on the market as the DacMagic?
RS and Cambridge Audio (between them) have far more 'grip' because they have their own manufacturing and retail chain too.
Regardless of all that, we have seen other CA products (amps, CD players) being offered in some quite stunning deals (over the same period that the price of the DacMagic has risen from £199 to £250). The CD players especially contain many/most of the same components as the DacMagic and yet they go down in price and the DacMagic goes up.
The Beresford DACs fluctuate in price depending on currency/exchange but have recently come down from a 'high' of around £189 (inc VAT) to £172.50 (£149.99 + VAT) at the moment. They are built in the far-east too.
How did both Naim and Rega (and others) manage to keep price rises to 3 - 5 percent this year?
How come respected products by imported brands like Yamaha come down in price after the same amount of time on the market as the DacMagic?
RS and Cambridge Audio (between them) have far more 'grip' because they have their own manufacturing and retail chain too.
Regardless of all that, we have seen other CA products (amps, CD players) being offered in some quite stunning deals (over the same period that the price of the DacMagic has risen from £199 to £250). The CD players especially contain many/most of the same components as the DacMagic and yet they go down in price and the DacMagic goes up.
Actually Cambridge Audio increased the price, not RS. CA increased the price they charge to RS, corresponding to £250 retail price. RS balked and was afraid that they will lose customers, so they reduced to £230 cutting their margins. This was a few months ago. Now they have returned to their usual margins with £250 retail price.
And please let's not get started on common ownership, that has been discussed to death.
Source: CA CEO and RS.
And please let's not get started on common ownership, that has been discussed to death.
Source: CA CEO and RS.
JohnDuncan:Actually I think if you dig on the forums for posts by Cambridge Audio CEO, you'll find a very detailed justification of recent price rises... [EDIT - here, specifically]
Is it justification or just "Spin"
Either way I do own a DM and paid £229 for it back in March, fairly pleased with it but as I listen to a lot of old 70's Stevie Wonder and the like I'm considering dipping my toe into the vinyl market and buying a half decent deck!
Anyway I hope the likes of Marantz, NAD and others have a competitive standalone product to rival the DM soon, competition being good and all that...
Is it justification or just "Spin"
Either way I do own a DM and paid £229 for it back in March, fairly pleased with it but as I listen to a lot of old 70's Stevie Wonder and the like I'm considering dipping my toe into the vinyl market and buying a half decent deck!
Anyway I hope the likes of Marantz, NAD and others have a competitive standalone product to rival the DM soon, competition being good and all that...
John Duncan
Well-known member
Guessing:
- the 'deals' will be more to do with getting rid of surplus stock?
- maybe the margins on a DACMagic are tighter than on a NaimUniti and the price is more volatile as a result?
- the DACMagic is a five star product, the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products. Those star ratings play a big part in selling a product, and maybe Beresford and MF are pushing down prices to attract sales? It would certainly skew my thinking if I was in the market for a DAC now with the DM being so much more expensive than the other two now compared to when I bought mine.
- the 'deals' will be more to do with getting rid of surplus stock?
- maybe the margins on a DACMagic are tighter than on a NaimUniti and the price is more volatile as a result?
- the DACMagic is a five star product, the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products. Those star ratings play a big part in selling a product, and maybe Beresford and MF are pushing down prices to attract sales? It would certainly skew my thinking if I was in the market for a DAC now with the DM being so much more expensive than the other two now compared to when I bought mine.
chebby
Well-known member
JohnDuncan:...the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products.
The Beresford TC-7510 is a five star product.
And the one I am comparing (TC-7520) has not yet been reviewed by WHF.
The Beresford TC-7510 is a five star product.
And the one I am comparing (TC-7520) has not yet been reviewed by WHF.
chebby:
JohnDuncan:...the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products.
The Beresford TC-7510 is a five star product.
And the one I am comparing (TC-7520) has not yet been reviewed by WHF.
I would certainly like to see a review of the TC-7520 soon....
Anyway its all about enjoying the music so we shold all bow down to the likes of Beresford, CA and others for opening up a new and exciting way of enjoying music.
JohnDuncan:...the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products.
The Beresford TC-7510 is a five star product.
And the one I am comparing (TC-7520) has not yet been reviewed by WHF.
I would certainly like to see a review of the TC-7520 soon....
Anyway its all about enjoying the music so we shold all bow down to the likes of Beresford, CA and others for opening up a new and exciting way of enjoying music.
John Duncan
Well-known member
chebby:
JohnDuncan:...the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products.
The Beresford TC-7510 is a five star product.
And the one I am comparing (TC-7520) has not yet been reviewed by WHF.
My mistake - but lost out to the DACMagic in the mini group test (which is kind of what I'm getting at in terms of WHF influence on the buying public). And the 7520 not being reviewed has the same effect, no?
JohnDuncan:...the Beresford and V-Dac are/were four star products.
The Beresford TC-7510 is a five star product.
And the one I am comparing (TC-7520) has not yet been reviewed by WHF.
My mistake - but lost out to the DACMagic in the mini group test (which is kind of what I'm getting at in terms of WHF influence on the buying public). And the 7520 not being reviewed has the same effect, no?
John Duncan
Well-known member
Andy Ford:Anyway its all about enjoying the music so we shold all bow down to the likes of Beresford, CA and others for opening up a new and exciting way of enjoying music.
Hear hear.
Hear hear.
Whichever one you choose, the releatively cheap upgrade (based on sound per £) path for the DacMagic or Beresford will transform them into a product far closer to a £1000 DAC for a fraction of the price.
My experience with cheap DAC: I have a V-DAC, paid £129 one month ago. Initially I was surprised by the sound: my laptop connected through the airport express really sounds good...well, if you compare it to the analog output! But this week I've used my headphones for some nightly listenig and I compared the laptop streaming through iTunes connected to the V-DAC and the same music played through my Roksan CD player: the difference is clear, much clear using the headphones. The sounds from the laptop (or better, from the DAC) is flat, harmless while the CD is exciting, dynamic, vibrant. Then I made the same test using an old Alchemist CD player (15 years old, but pretty good at time), and again the sound coming from the laptop is lifeless. So my idea is: there's no giant killer, a £100 dac will sound as £200 cd player, I doubt that a V-DAC (I havent heard the DACMagic) will sound better then the squeezebox DAC. If you want a quality DAC have a look at BelCanto or Benchmark.
Massimiliano
Massimiliano
I don't work for Richer Sounds lol, if anyting I am critical of the relationship between CA and RS (see previous threads).
Richer Sounds
Well-known member
Hi all,
I wanted to give my feedback in response to your rather unfair comments about the Cambridge Audio Dac Magic.
Due to the pound weakening with horrendous exchange rates, a number of our supplies have implemented significant cost price increases on many of the lines we stock including the Cambridge Dac.
Having said this although there has been a price increase I do believe the product still represents incredible value for money which is born out by the fact no one else can manufacture anything nearly as good for the money anywhere else in the world!
I hope this clarifies our position here, if I can be of any more help please contact me directly via the below email address ..
john.p.clayton@richersounds.com
Many Thanks
John Clayton
Operations Director
Richer Sounds
I wanted to give my feedback in response to your rather unfair comments about the Cambridge Audio Dac Magic.
Due to the pound weakening with horrendous exchange rates, a number of our supplies have implemented significant cost price increases on many of the lines we stock including the Cambridge Dac.
Having said this although there has been a price increase I do believe the product still represents incredible value for money which is born out by the fact no one else can manufacture anything nearly as good for the money anywhere else in the world!
I hope this clarifies our position here, if I can be of any more help please contact me directly via the below email address ..
john.p.clayton@richersounds.com
Many Thanks
John Clayton
Operations Director
Richer Sounds
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