Hi, With a lot of music I really enjoy my current system, but with some it seems too bright to listen to a whole cd. My system is Naim CD5x/Flatcap 2x, Nait5i2, Paradigm Moniter 7v5 Speakers, with QED Mirco Speaker cable. Since Iv upgraded to the Nait5i amp its improved, but still definately there. Am thinking possibly the speakers are the ones a tad bright? The room has a decent amount of soft things, carpet, sofa , etc etc. Im thinking if the cds that are bright on my system, are probably bright anyway? Fro the top of my head some cd's that seemed bright are...Led Zepplin - Mothership, Bon Jovi, Cranberrys, Pink Floyd seems border line, but still enjoyable. Vocal based cds sound very good however, for example Josh Groban. Any thoughts?
Bright system or just Bright Recordings?
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I wonder about the speaker cable to, its not very expensive, but is copper so shouldn't be too bright? Oh another one to add to the list... the MatchBox Twenty Exile on main stream on some of the tracks. Not as bad as other mentioned cds though. Im not sure if this is relevent or not, but the speakers only go down to ñ2 dB 54 Hz, and a Low-Frequency Extension 41 Hz (DIN). Maybe the lack of bass on some of the mentioned cds makes them bright....
Led Zep's Mothership cd has been compressed and remastered to hell. Having said that, bright recordings are always going to sound worse on a bright system than they will on a warm system. Yes some recordings are almost unbearable but if you find you're saying that about most of your collection, it's your system that's to blame.
hi, what interconnect are you using? i agree with wild willy that it is probably your system that is bright if you are having so many problems with different cds. also, though your speaker cable is copper it still may cause some brightness due to its relatively low cost. if you have a dealer nearby you should try some different cable - at home with your system to see if it helps.
trying different interconnects and speakers cables with your existing system is relatively easy and free(provided you can try before you buy) and may prevent you replacing a system component that you dont need to.
trying different interconnects and speakers cables with your existing system is relatively easy and free(provided you can try before you buy) and may prevent you replacing a system component that you dont need to.
Foo-tastic.
Cables can not tame a bright system, imo. If they can our life would be a lot easier.
Naim's treble are bright and that's it! You either like it or don't. Naim's own cables are the ones that lovely people at salisbury recommended (could be for the obvious reason).
Note: Real guitar sound bright and even brighter when the sound come out of non- valve Marshall stacks, Drum's rides and China sound bright too. The higher you go in the hifi term, the instruments sound can be heard more correctly.....the truth can be painfull (or in this case....bright!)
Cables can not tame a bright system, imo. If they can our life would be a lot easier.
Naim's treble are bright and that's it! You either like it or don't. Naim's own cables are the ones that lovely people at salisbury recommended (could be for the obvious reason).
Note: Real guitar sound bright and even brighter when the sound come out of non- valve Marshall stacks, Drum's rides and China sound bright too. The higher you go in the hifi term, the instruments sound can be heard more correctly.....the truth can be painfull (or in this case....bright!)
hi thaiman, i agree with you in some respects however, as the OP is not experiencing this brightness all the time ie. its not extreme, then i do think it may be tamed by different cables. like i said before, the worst he can do is try it - it wont cost anything and is much easier than replacing components.
i understand what you are saying about some music being bright however, i suspect the OP might mean harsh instead of bright - ie. overly-bright, or even thin or tinny?
i know what you are saying about guitars - though for me its a steel string accoustic that can lean towards the bright side. in terms of cymbals definately china and crashes however, the ride i dont usually find too bright unless its the bell you are refering to? how do you think a high-hat should sound. for me its quite thin and washy but its been so long since i heard one accousitcally in a live environment...
i understand what you are saying about some music being bright however, i suspect the OP might mean harsh instead of bright - ie. overly-bright, or even thin or tinny?
i know what you are saying about guitars - though for me its a steel string accoustic that can lean towards the bright side. in terms of cymbals definately china and crashes however, the ride i dont usually find too bright unless its the bell you are refering to? how do you think a high-hat should sound. for me its quite thin and washy but its been so long since i heard one accousitcally in a live environment...
[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"]i understand what you are saying about some music being bright however, i
suspect the OP might mean harsh instead of bright - ie. overly-bright, or even
thin or tinny? [/quote]
Could this be speakers can not reproduce input frequancy correctly therefore the sound come out too bright or harsh (there is a big different between two words by the way)
[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"]in terms of cymbals definately china and crashes however, the ride i dont
usually find too bright unless its the bell you are refering to? how do you
think a high-hat should sound. [/quote]
The good re-production of ride and china always do it for me....I had many "hair on the neck" moment from them
suspect the OP might mean harsh instead of bright - ie. overly-bright, or even
thin or tinny? [/quote]
Could this be speakers can not reproduce input frequancy correctly therefore the sound come out too bright or harsh (there is a big different between two words by the way)
[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"]in terms of cymbals definately china and crashes however, the ride i dont
usually find too bright unless its the bell you are refering to? how do you
think a high-hat should sound. [/quote]
The good re-production of ride and china always do it for me....I had many "hair on the neck" moment from them
I will have to fall into the blame the cable camp, its thin stuff I gather and that wont be helping at all.
Is your system sat on glass shelves, or is there a lot of glass in the room? That may well be a major contributor IME...
[quote user="taxiboy"]I will have to fall into the blame the cable camp, its thin stuff I gather and that wont be helping at all.[/quote]
yes, you are spot on there. from QED's own site "QED Micro is ideal for use with Micro, Midi and Mini Systems, rear speaker Home Theatre and room to room wiring."
Kiwi Jono it really seems that for such a quality system you are really cutting corners in the cabling department... let us know what you are planning to do and how you get on.
yes, you are spot on there. from QED's own site "QED Micro is ideal for use with Micro, Midi and Mini Systems, rear speaker Home Theatre and room to room wiring."
Kiwi Jono it really seems that for such a quality system you are really cutting corners in the cabling department... let us know what you are planning to do and how you get on.
[quote user="Kiwi_Jonno"]Hi, With a lot of music I really enjoy my current system, but with some it seems too bright to listen to a whole cd. My system is Naim CD5x/Flatcap 2x, Nait5i2, Paradigm Moniter 7v5 Speakers, with QED Mirco Speaker cable. Since Iv upgraded to the Nait5i amp its improved, but still definately there. Am thinking possibly the speakers are the ones a tad bright? The room has a decent amount of soft things, carpet, sofa , etc etc. Im thinking if the cds that are bright on my system, are probably bright anyway? Fro the top of my head some cd's that seemed bright are...Led Zepplin - Mothership, Bon Jovi, Cranberrys, Pink Floyd seems border line, but still enjoyable. Vocal based cds sound very good however, for example Josh Groban. Any thoughts?[/quote]I never thought I was gonna say this, but here goes- don't waste your money on expensive cables if your not satisfied with the sound of your system. Having said that, in my experience van den Hul cables do tame a bright treble and the Gotham cables recommended by Thaiman are fantastic value for money. I own the Gotham interconnect and vdh the Name and cs-122 speaker cable. Last thing I want to add is a rectification of my premature assumption that the Gotham sounded bright- it was just the marantz player...In addition to Bigguads suggestion: (provided you haven't already,) try some wood racks instead of glas. Secondly rubber feet/halfed squash balls under your player.
He's absolutely right, expensive cables are an utter waste of money, they simply cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one.
There have been so many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to realise it's just another con. Now thank heavens there is an increasing tide of opinion against snake oil salesmen and it hasn't come a moment to soon.
If you system is harsh, it's harsh and you may convince yourself for a short period of time that cables have cured it, but soon you'll realise they haven't and you'll be cross with yourself for wasting more money.
Harshness and brightness are insidious. A few years ago an awful lot of musicians stayed up all night tweaking the tracks they laid down only to realise later that they made everything far too bright, then record companies insist on brightening the treble, lifting the bass and compressing everything and many records were awful. Reviewers too, make mistakes and often favour a bright or harsh sound. Probably it's Temporary Threshold Shift caused by listening to too long or when tired and many hi fi amps and CD players are harsher than they should be too.
I'd suggest leaving it for a day or two and then getting someone who isn't interested in hi fi to listen and give an opinion and if he and you think it's harsh, then you need to change direction.
Just my thoughts
Ashley
There have been so many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to realise it's just another con. Now thank heavens there is an increasing tide of opinion against snake oil salesmen and it hasn't come a moment to soon.
If you system is harsh, it's harsh and you may convince yourself for a short period of time that cables have cured it, but soon you'll realise they haven't and you'll be cross with yourself for wasting more money.
Harshness and brightness are insidious. A few years ago an awful lot of musicians stayed up all night tweaking the tracks they laid down only to realise later that they made everything far too bright, then record companies insist on brightening the treble, lifting the bass and compressing everything and many records were awful. Reviewers too, make mistakes and often favour a bright or harsh sound. Probably it's Temporary Threshold Shift caused by listening to too long or when tired and many hi fi amps and CD players are harsher than they should be too.
I'd suggest leaving it for a day or two and then getting someone who isn't interested in hi fi to listen and give an opinion and if he and you think it's harsh, then you need to change direction.
Just my thoughts
Ashley
[quote user="Ashley James"]He's absolutely right, expensive cables are an utter waste of money, they simply
cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one. There have been so
many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can
hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to
realise it's just another con.[/quote]
WOW.....we are not worthy!!!!
cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one. There have been so
many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can
hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to
realise it's just another con.[/quote]
WOW.....we are not worthy!!!!
[quote user="Ashley James"]He's absolutely right, expensive cables are an utter waste of money, they simply cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one.
There have been so many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to realise it's just another con. Now thank heavens there is an increasing tide of opinion against snake oil salesmen and it hasn't come a moment to soon.
If you system is harsh, it's harsh and you may convince yourself for a short period of time that cables have cured it, but soon you'll realise they haven't and you'll be cross with yourself for wasting more money.
Harshness and brightness are insidious. A few years ago an awful lot of musicians stayed up all night tweaking the tracks they laid down only to realise later that they made everything far too bright, then record companies insist on brightening the treble, lifting the bass and compressing everything and many records were awful. Reviewers too, make mistakes and often favour a bright or harsh sound. Probably it's Temporary Threshold Shift caused by listening to too long or when tired and many hi fi amps and CD players are harsher than they should be too.
I'd suggest leaving it for a day or two and then getting someone who isn't interested in hi fi to listen and give an opinion and if he and you think it's harsh, then you need to change direction.
Just my thoughts
Ashley[/quote]
your thoughts are sounding an awful lot like preaching Ashley. as i stated before, Kiwi doesnt have to spend any money to TRY the cables as dealers will often let you try the cables at home with your system before you buy them. If YOU dont think cables make any difference thats fine. however, there are many more people that do swear by them (lots of them are professional reveiwers who write in hi-fi mags, some are just average hi-fi enthusiasts like me). no one said that Kiwi had to buy expensive ccables - just slightly upmarket ones from what he has now. in fact the Gotham IC recommended cost about a tenner.
There have been so many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to realise it's just another con. Now thank heavens there is an increasing tide of opinion against snake oil salesmen and it hasn't come a moment to soon.
If you system is harsh, it's harsh and you may convince yourself for a short period of time that cables have cured it, but soon you'll realise they haven't and you'll be cross with yourself for wasting more money.
Harshness and brightness are insidious. A few years ago an awful lot of musicians stayed up all night tweaking the tracks they laid down only to realise later that they made everything far too bright, then record companies insist on brightening the treble, lifting the bass and compressing everything and many records were awful. Reviewers too, make mistakes and often favour a bright or harsh sound. Probably it's Temporary Threshold Shift caused by listening to too long or when tired and many hi fi amps and CD players are harsher than they should be too.
I'd suggest leaving it for a day or two and then getting someone who isn't interested in hi fi to listen and give an opinion and if he and you think it's harsh, then you need to change direction.
Just my thoughts
Ashley[/quote]
your thoughts are sounding an awful lot like preaching Ashley. as i stated before, Kiwi doesnt have to spend any money to TRY the cables as dealers will often let you try the cables at home with your system before you buy them. If YOU dont think cables make any difference thats fine. however, there are many more people that do swear by them (lots of them are professional reveiwers who write in hi-fi mags, some are just average hi-fi enthusiasts like me). no one said that Kiwi had to buy expensive ccables - just slightly upmarket ones from what he has now. in fact the Gotham IC recommended cost about a tenner.
[quote user="Thaiman"][quote user="Ashley James"]He's absolutely right, expensive cables are an utter waste of money, they simply
cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one. There have been so
many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can
hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to
realise it's just another con.[/quote]
WOW.....we are not worthy!!!!
[/quote]
we? sorry thaiman but you shouldnt speak for everyone here, expecially on such a hottly contested subject ;-)
cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one. There have been so
many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can
hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to
realise it's just another con.[/quote]
WOW.....we are not worthy!!!!
[/quote]
we? sorry thaiman but you shouldnt speak for everyone here, expecially on such a hottly contested subject ;-)
[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"][quote user="Thaiman"][quote user="Ashley James"]He's absolutely right, expensive cables are an utter waste of money, they simply
cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one. There have been so
many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can
hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to
realise it's just another con.[/quote]
WOW.....we are not worthy!!!!
[/quote]
we? sorry thaiman but you shouldnt speak for everyone here, expecially on such a hottly contested subject ;-)[/quote]
Sorry mate
I was more WoW to hear that the big boss from HiFi manufacture come out and post the above comment in one of the most read forum (at the moment)
I know one or two other speakers manufacture's owner that said the same thing to me but post on the forum!!!!....RESPECT to you Mr. James....However I could prove to you in 1 min flat that cables (speakers cables) do make a big different (Forum's member Huddo heard them already)
cannot make any difference at all except an imagined one. There have been so
many properly conducted, double blind listening tests done that prove no one can
hear any differences, it's surprising that it has taken so long for people to
realise it's just another con.[/quote]
WOW.....we are not worthy!!!!
[/quote]
we? sorry thaiman but you shouldnt speak for everyone here, expecially on such a hottly contested subject ;-)[/quote]
Sorry mate
I was more WoW to hear that the big boss from HiFi manufacture come out and post the above comment in one of the most read forum (at the moment)
I know one or two other speakers manufacture's owner that said the same thing to me but post on the forum!!!!....RESPECT to you Mr. James....However I could prove to you in 1 min flat that cables (speakers cables) do make a big different
(Forum's member Huddo heard them already)Expensive cables a waste of money? You might be right there pal, my cable cost less than a quid a metre and has taken my system to a whole new level! Forget paying a fortune for a name brand cable, buy the same thing for way less in Maplins and enjoy! As for the whole "noone can hear a difference" business, if anyone wants to come and have a listen feel free and if you cant hear a difference I will buy you a hearing aid!
I need to mention further that the cables that I could prove different are TCI King Cobra and Audioquest hyperLiz. Apart from that two brand, I am not too confident!
ash i just read one of your articles regarding your thoughts on 5 major brand cd player manufacturers, any clues?
[quote user="taxiboy"]...if anyone wants to come and have a listen feel free and if you cant hear a
difference I will buy you a hearing aid![/quote]LOL This could prove to be tricky....and expensive- is it a wireless hearing aid you have in mind? Maybe we should settle on the old fashioned ear horn just to make sure we purely test the cable in question. Let's face it: we wouldn't want anything to spoil our scientic approach.
difference I will buy you a hearing aid![/quote]LOL This could prove to be tricky....and expensive- is it a wireless hearing aid you have in mind? Maybe we should settle on the old fashioned ear horn just to make sure we purely test the cable in question. Let's face it: we wouldn't want anything to spoil our scientic approach.
Why do we have to get into science all the time? The great majority of people on here would agree that the quality/construction of a cable makes a huge difference to sound. Is the earth flat? Science is often proved to be flawed. Was it our ears or science that led us to this forum?
[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"][quote user="taxiboy"]I will have to fall into the blame the cable camp, its thin stuff I gather and that wont be helping at all.[/quote]
yes, you are spot on there. from QED's own site "QED Micro is ideal for use with Micro, Midi and Mini Systems, rear speaker Home Theatre and room to room wiring."
Kiwi Jono it really seems that for such a quality system you are really cutting corners in the cabling department... let us know what you are planning to do and how you get on.[/quote]
Oh that doesn't sound too promising for the cable then. With so many cables out there its hard to know whats gonna sound bright etc. Iv tried silver anniversary and it was actually an improvement in the treble (less harsh I think), but kinda polished and bright still.
By the way the cd player, amp, flatcap all sit on a glass rack. I understand that electric gutar is gonna sound bright but at louder volume the previously mentioned cds seem hard on the ears after a bit.
yes, you are spot on there. from QED's own site "QED Micro is ideal for use with Micro, Midi and Mini Systems, rear speaker Home Theatre and room to room wiring."
Kiwi Jono it really seems that for such a quality system you are really cutting corners in the cabling department... let us know what you are planning to do and how you get on.[/quote]
Oh that doesn't sound too promising for the cable then. With so many cables out there its hard to know whats gonna sound bright etc. Iv tried silver anniversary and it was actually an improvement in the treble (less harsh I think), but kinda polished and bright still.
By the way the cd player, amp, flatcap all sit on a glass rack. I understand that electric gutar is gonna sound bright but at louder volume the previously mentioned cds seem hard on the ears after a bit.
[quote user="Thaiman"]Foo-tastic.
Cables can not tame a bright system, imo. If they can our life would be a lot easier.
Naim's treble are bright and that's it! You either like it or don't. Naim's own cables are the ones that lovely people at salisbury recommended (could be for the obvious reason).
Note: Real guitar sound bright and even brighter when the sound come out of non- valve Marshall stacks, Drum's rides and China sound bright too. The higher you go in the hifi term, the instruments sound can be heard more correctly.....the truth can be painfull (or in this case....bright!)[/quote]
Am trying to reply to multi-posts at a time... geez lets not have another cable war.... I personally can hear a difference in cables for what its worth so am willing to spend some $ if its an improvement.
The interconnects between amp and cd player are Naims ones. I have to slightly disagree that Naim is bright. Iv heard my Naim system before I brought it throught Naim and Rega speakers. It seemed less forward and in-your-face. Sorry Its hard to describe. The soundstage was further back. Im not 100% sure the difference between harsh and bright. I think the current system can be harsh though on certian tracks, as the silver anniversary cable smoothed it out when I demoed awhile ago.
I wonder if the Naim cable is worth a shot? Its expensive here ($35 NZ a mitre). While the Silver Anniversary was way better, I think I can do better for my system synergy.
Cables can not tame a bright system, imo. If they can our life would be a lot easier.
Naim's treble are bright and that's it! You either like it or don't. Naim's own cables are the ones that lovely people at salisbury recommended (could be for the obvious reason).
Note: Real guitar sound bright and even brighter when the sound come out of non- valve Marshall stacks, Drum's rides and China sound bright too. The higher you go in the hifi term, the instruments sound can be heard more correctly.....the truth can be painfull (or in this case....bright!)[/quote]
Am trying to reply to multi-posts at a time... geez lets not have another cable war.... I personally can hear a difference in cables for what its worth so am willing to spend some $ if its an improvement.
The interconnects between amp and cd player are Naims ones. I have to slightly disagree that Naim is bright. Iv heard my Naim system before I brought it throught Naim and Rega speakers. It seemed less forward and in-your-face. Sorry Its hard to describe. The soundstage was further back. Im not 100% sure the difference between harsh and bright. I think the current system can be harsh though on certian tracks, as the silver anniversary cable smoothed it out when I demoed awhile ago.
I wonder if the Naim cable is worth a shot? Its expensive here ($35 NZ a mitre). While the Silver Anniversary was way better, I think I can do better for my system synergy.
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