br5 fronts..br centre.. br1 rears .. small or large..?

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hi folks , i also have a yamaha rxv765 , there seems to be conflicting info on the web , some say have all your speakers set to small , even if they are floorstanders , and some say to set any speakers with a decent bass output to large , therefore utilising their bass , and not leaving all the low frequency sound to the sub . does anyone have any views on this ???
 

v1c

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From the M&K (The inventor of the SUB) sub operations manual "Set all speakers to the small setting for proper High-Pass and Low-Pass Filter operation to get the lowest distortion and maximum dynamic range. Also special note "High-Pass Filters: All Dolby Digital processor/receivers have built-in high-pass filters for the left, center, right, left surround and right surround channels. Always turn these filters ON by using the SMALL settings. If you have a THX component , use the THX setting. See the owner's manual of the processor/receiver for instructions."
 

007L2Thrill

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IMPO, I let my AMP choose by the MIC set-up, so it set all my speakers to large and I left it that way.

I have tried letting the SUB do all the bass for my speakers, so I set them to all small and set it at THX level of 80Hz and to me just sounded like there was no direction in the bass on some effects, but the SUB is deeper as mine is in my corner of the room, but my speakers are around 23 inches from the back wall and when they are set to large and doing bass duty it sounds more puncher but less deeper.

Best bet is to have ago your self try both ways and set it how you think sounds best.
 
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Anonymous

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when i ran the auto setup on the yam , it also set my speakers to large , which is confusing ..

ive now got them all set to small , and the crossover is at 80 ..

im not sure i can hear much difference , although i have a hunch that dialogue is more pronounced ..
 

007L2Thrill

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Well Max, if you can't really tell much difference then let the SUB do the bass duty as you should get deeper bass.

But on another note after looking up your speakers IMPO I would set the front speakers to large and the centre speaker to large and the rears small, reason for that is your fronts are large Floorstanders and the centre speaker you have is largish as well, and if you set the centre to small you may have all your dialogue sounding like dark vader, unless you like it that way of course, but your rears look small ish, so would set them to small.

But again it's down to your room acoustics and your taste
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Anonymous

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hmmm , ive done as you suggested 007 , fronts and centre set to large , rears small , crossover 80 ..

sounds great , unless anyone knows a better way , thats how theyre staying
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Gerrardasnails

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maxflinn:
hmmm , ive done as you suggested 007 , fronts and centre set to large , rears small , crossover 80 ..

sounds great , unless anyone knows a better way , thats how theyre staying
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I maybe wrong but unless all your speakers are set to small, your receiver will not be involved in the crossover with the sub - it will be all the sub's doing. Personally, all speakers to small and let the receiver tell the sub when to work, sounds much better.
 
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Anonymous

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i reran the auto setup , and the yam set the fronts and rears to large , and the centre to small
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Anonymous

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I like to use the fronts as large as they are floorstanders and can go as deep as 30Hz according to the spec, for the rest i set all to small, as most dedicated centre speakers won't go below 50Hz and the rears are wall mounted so I wouldn't want too much bass on them, so I set centre and rears at 80Hz.And let the Sub deal with the LFE
 

Sorreltiger

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As V1c says above, I would recommend setting all speakers to small if you have a sub, despite what the auto set-up might say. It allows the front speakers to concentrate on producing cleaner sound in the upper band - dialogue may well be clearer, as max noted.

However, many folk do leave their floorstanders on large - if this sounds best for them, so be it.
 
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Anonymous

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cheers , it seems that trial and error is the way forward for me here , whatever sounds best is what ill stick with , there isnt much in it either way
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Frank Harvey

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Ignore specs. they will give you a rough idea of frequency response, but rooms tend to play havoc with these specifications. Most floorstanders aren't going to give you much useable output below 60Hz, maybe 50Hz at a push, and standmounts around 80Hz, maybe 70Hz - you have to remember that when these speakers are producing numerous other frquencies at the same time, lower notes are usually smothered, and lack any decisiveness or impact. This is why THX recommend an 80Hz cut off point for the speakers, as it maximises a speaker's strengths - below 80Hz becomes a weakness. In this case, the sub is designed to reproduce the lower notes that speakers start to struggle to reproduce effectively.

There are two schools of thought as to whether floorstanders should be set to large or small. Regardless of this, if the centre speaker isn't exactly the same as the front pair, it should be set to small. Virtually all 'matching' centres are smaller in cabinet volume, and use smaller drivers, and don't have the same tonal balance. In the case of the Bronze range, it should be set to small.

By setting the BR5's to small, you're limiting their frequency output to the same as the BR's and BR centre, helping them all to reproduce a tonal balance much closer to each other, so any panning effects sound more convincing. With differing sized speakers, panning effects can sound odd as they pass through larger speakers, then smaller ones. Having exactly the same speaker all round is the only way to have a proper match, as recommended by THX.

Bear in mind that even though the BR5's are a floorstander, they still only use the same size bass driver as the BR1, it's just that it uses two of them. It's the cabinet volume giving much of the extra depth, less so the extra bass driver. Setting the BR5's to large puts more strain on them as you're asking them to do more work, and although the extra bass driver will help with this, it's this extra work that can make speakers sound muddied or confused in the midrange/lower bass. A higher crossover point eases their burden, allowing them to reproduce the frequencies they do best in a more effortless manner, and with less colouration from lower frequencies, giving them more clarity. This can 'thin' the sound out, but you'll hear so much more detail because of it, and you soon get used to it.

Hope this helps.
 
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Anonymous

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great post david , thanks
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, that makes alot of sense , as i have said , dialogue seemed a touch better with everything set to small , your post explains why . ill set them all to small so , and thats that , cheers
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Frank Harvey

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Thanks Max.

Having said all that, some people will prefer the warmer sound of setting their speakers to large, which is fine. There's no right or wrong, just different, with people free to choose their preference.
 
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Anonymous

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FrankHarveyHiFi:

Having exactly the same speaker all round is the only way to have a proper match, as recommended by THX.

Sorry I'm a little confused here,

So basicaly the ideal system is one using the same speakers all round, Say for example the MA BR2's front left, right, centre. rear left, right? I'm not doubting your knowledge David. But why do manufacturers bother putting together packages like the BR2 AV or the BR5 AV, If a more realistic sounding system would be one using all the same speaker?
 
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Anonymous

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i could be wrong , but i understood david to mean the same setting for the various speakers , as in small or large ?
 

Frank Harvey

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Prime Cuts:Sorry I'm a little confused here,

So basicaly the ideal system is one using the same speakers all round, Say for example the MA BR2's front left, right, centre. rear left, right? I'm not doubting your knowledge David. But why do manufacturers bother putting together packages like the BR2 AV or the BR5 AV, If a more realistic sounding system would be one using all the same speaker?

Basically, there are three types of packages.

[*]Lifestyle AV packages that are made to look nice, usually with fancy shapes and material, relatively small, and usually under £1,000. Most of the time, they incorporate exactly the same speaker all round, giving a very even sounding system as far as matching/panning effects are concerned. These can produce better results than hi-fi speakers because by physical nature they're closer to dedicated movie packages than hi-fi ones are.
[*]Hi-fi AV packages that consist of a pair of hi-fi front speakers, be they standmounts or floorstanders. Added to these are a 'convenient' smaller centre speaker (usually with a smaller cabinet volume and smaller mid/bass drivers), and smaller rear speaker, basically because it's the norm for people to use smaller rear speakers for aesthetic reasons. This also goes beack to the days of Dolby Surround systems, when the rear speakers were of a limited bandwidth, so meaty rear speakers were not required. With the advent of digital surround systems like Dolby Digital and DTS, the rear speaker signals became full range like the front speakers, so larger surround speakers were required. People still stuck to smaller rear speakers and set them to small.
[*]Dedicated AV packages are purely designed for producing movie soundtracks, like the upcoming Ken Kreisel (inventor of the sub/sat system) ones for instance. There's not many around compared to the other two types of packages, mainly because it's a more specialised market. These packages use exactly the same speakers across the front, known as an LCR package. Sometimes they use exactly the same speakers for the rear too, to make sure front to rear panning effects are also consistent. These are usually THX packages, so are classed as 'real' sub/sat systems. These satellite speakers are not full range and will cut off at 80Hz, the frequency chosen by THX as the ideal crossover point between small speakers and subwoofers. Because of this, they concentrate on the frequencies they produce best, without interference from bass energy within the cabinet.

NB. Many hi-fi speaker manufacturers name their centre speakers LCR*** because they can be bought and the left and right can be stood on their ends and used like a normal speaker. This produces the same tonal balance and timbre, as well as power capabilities, resulting in a far more consistent front soundfield. Any left to right panning effects sound the same.

But to answer your question, yes, the ideal system will use exactly the same speaker all round. After all, this is the type of speaker system the film soundtracks were mastered in the first place.
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks for the very detailed reply David, that clears a few things up for me. Just out of curriosity have you listen to an LCR set up say from the monitor audio range?
 

Frank Harvey

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Unfortunately not as it's not an option many people go for, so it's unusual for a store to have 3 centre speakers the same on demo
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But it gives the same results as using matching front, centre, right.
 

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