Bookshelf Speakers - When to add a Sub?

[Witterings]

I appreciate room size will make a difference as well but putting that aside for a second, how else would you decide whether to add a sub to a pair of bookshelf speakers.
Would you look at the speaker's lowest frequency and depending o how deep they dig decide from there (in which case what level limitation would you consider it necessary) or are there other more important things to take into account in helping decide?

 

[Integralista]

Hi, I think there is a lot of subjectivity in this topic. For me, speakers with output above 40Hz (+/- 3Hz) do not need subwoofer. Probably except when you listen organ music or grand piano. Than you will be thankful for the sub. More important I think is how do you feel reproduced music from your system. There are bookshelf speakers with subjective "full" sound, where e.g. acoustic bass is not so comprimated. Speaker like Dynaudio or Focal are quite good in this aspect. BR.

 

[Witterings]

Speaker like Dynaudio or Focal are quite good in this aspect.

I was watching a video just before I posted and they said the Dynaudio Evoke 10 were very good for bass in their size range.

 

[Integralista]

Hi, which amp do you have? And how big is the room? Dynaudio need very good amp to shine. BR.

 

[Witterings]

Hi, which amp do you have? And how big is the room? Dynaudio need very good amp to shine. BR.

Ok ,,,, this is where it may fall down, it's a Denon M39 DAB so may ne underpowered for those.

 

[Messiah]

I would always add a sub. Full stop. 😁

 

[PieterG]

If you're looking for objective criteria, the low end of the speakers' frequency range is the first one i'd think of. Integralista says that anything around 40Hz should be ok without sub - i couldn't put a number on it but it sounds reasonable.

You mention room size, and i would include speaker placement as well. Bass might improve if you tweak the distance to rear and side walls/obstructions a bit... or it might not. Maybe you don't have a lot of options to reposition the speakers.

Subjectively, i would consider a sub when the lows don't have the impact that i prefer. For example, i played with the sub from my tv surround setup in combination with my floorstanders, and i had to dial it down at least 6dB to avoid exaggerated bass. I decided i didn't need a sub with those speakers, but that's a decision based on personal taste and musical preference.

 

[Fandango Andy]

I would suggest if you think you need one there is a chance you do! It's all about personal preference.

I have never used a sub in my stereo system having never felt the need. However, my current speakers go down to 39Hz, around 10Hz lower than anything I have had before. If I went back to smaller speakers with less low end would I find them lacking and feel the need for a sub?

On the other hand, I have a small. Sub in my AV system that makes a massive difference.

 

[Integralista]

Ok ,,,, this is where it may fall down, it's a Denon M39 DAB so may ne underpowered for those.

Hi, yes Denon M39 DAB is legendary good microsystem. More grown up speakers need more grown up amplifier. When in selection process let us know, we can help with some help. BR.

 

[gasolin]

Makes not much sense if you don't have a high pass filter and want to play loud and have more bass

If you wanna play loud your speakers distorts earlier than when you have a high pass filter around 60-80hz, depending on what speakers you have

 

[Witterings]

Might be easier if I say what the problem is at the moment and what led me to exploring what options I have, although if I'm honest, due to room constraints I don't think I'm going to be able to improve much .... if any on what I have.

The driving factor behind this is, I am currently using a sub with the system ... BUT .... the wife absolutely hates where it's placed in the kitchen area and whilst on some occasions I'll dig my heels in as she'd like to hear but not see a stereo system, in this instance I actually have to agree with her and out of choice would lose it altogether. There's nowhere else it could go in the room ... unless I bought one of the wireless stereo to sub connectors.

It's a quite large Kitchen / Living area, the biggest issue is the only place I can put speakers is on the window sill which I know is far from ideal but also means I'm extremely limited on depth and need sealed or front ported speakers, my current setup is listed in my signature but have copied and pasted it here for convenience

Kitchen / Living area: Denon RCD-M39DAB, Bluesound Nano, WiiM Pro for multiroom, Elac B5.2 Speakers, Q-Acoustics Sub.

The Elacs are good speakers but probably due to room size really benefits from the sub but if I could find bookshelves that dug deeper, that would be my ideal but with speaker size limitation, maybe it's not something I'm going to be able find as they'll probably need to have a larger volume to move more air.

Speaker wise I've heard Dynaudio Evoke 10 have great bass presence but if you compare the specs the Elacs go down to 46Hz and the Evokes 47Hz so I'm probably not going to gain anything.

Think it's just one of those situations that due to constraints I'm stuck with what I have .... apart from setting the sub up as wireless (not sure is this'd create any sync issues as never heard one), in which case I can move it to a more "wife friendly" position.