Bit perfection, quality source and all that jazz...

SteveR750

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Here's a bit of a revelation as I contemplate an afternoon working from home; I have got spotify playing along not in the background, more moderate listening levels and I can safely conclude that a streamed 128kbs track played though my current system is *better* than regular CDA stuff played through the previous set up, in fact the jump from the spendors to the Proacs has a much more noticeable difference than the source differences.

So maybe Ifor was wrong all those years ago; refined junk is more satisfying than veiled perfection, or perhaps I just have no class.
 

CnoEvil

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It's not quite the same thing, but I prefer a Klimax DS playing Redbook, than the lesser models on 24 bit.

Also Audio Note claim that their NOS Dacs, with their Analogue Devices AD 1865 18 bit chip, sound better than 24 bit....and from what I've heard (in an all AN system), they may have a point.

Redbook can sound amazing, but it seems to take an expensive solution to maximize it (eg. DCS)
 

SteveR750

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The difference between my CDP and a $50 programme on a laptop was pretty small, much less than amp to amp or speaker to speaker. I suspect also that I'd need to spend >5x to improve significantly over the dac too. Though to be scientific I should probably now try an equivalent cd player in my current system which would in theory be more revealing of the upstream components. Hmmm Caspian M2 player....
 

paradiziac

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If 128kbps sounds good on your system, what about 320kbps or FLAC/wav?

128kbps is noticably inferior for me, 192kbps and above for me are generally close enough to FLAC.

That said I believe Spotify Free streams .ogg files at about 160 kbps?
 

SteveR750

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CnoEvil said:
Steve my friend, you need to hear what a Linn DS can do. :shifty:

I am beginning to think that a dedicated streamer is the next step, but it's effectively going to be a full cost upgrade, as I wont be changing the PC for something bigger and better, so the big Q is if that cost is justified for whatever gap there is.

How does a DS compare to a Cyrus CD6SE hich I used to own, and was inferior to the PC.

I have several hi res files (24/96) and they are mostly very good, but this might be because they have been remastered. Some are no different to the cd version, possibly because they are simply oversampled CD audio files.

I can detect the improvements between Spotify 160 -> cd audio (all files in FLAC) which is fine for critical listening, but 80% of the time I'm not in that zone, and to be honest the wider choice of music easily overcomes the slight sonic differences for most of the time.
 

bluebrazil

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what i lose in detail from my cyrus cd6s to the warmth i gain from either spotify free or 192 kbps files from windows via the chordette gem is really only an issue if i consider the fan noise when i am close to, or using, my laptop.
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
I am beginning to think that a dedicated streamer is the next step, but it's effectively going to be a full cost upgrade, as I wont be changing the PC for something bigger and better, so the big Q is if that cost is justified for whatever gap there is.

How does a DS compare to a Cyrus CD6SE hich I used to own, and was inferior to the PC.

I have several hi res files (24/96) and they are mostly very good, but this might be because they have been remastered. Some are no different to the cd version, possibly because they are simply oversampled CD audio files.

I can detect the improvements between Spotify 160 -> cd audio (all files in FLAC) which is fine for critical listening, but 80% of the time I'm not in that zone, and to be honest the wider choice of music easily overcomes the slight sonic differences for most of the time.

Due to the very subjective nature of describing the hierarchy of sound, all I can do is give my (very personal) opinion.

- The way things are heading, I don't think spending substantial money on a CDP is wise.

- A Streamer is a better sorted solution, than a source connected to a separate DAC.

- IMO The Linn DS is the best, most musical solution (my individual opinion), though I'm not a fan of their amps.

- A Sneaky matches £2k CDPs on Redbook and exceeds them on 24 bit.

- A Majik DS is like a highend CDP (it certainly exceeds my Linn Karik/Numerik), and I preferred it to a very expensive Mark Levinson CDP. At the time Linn claimed it was better than any CDP, but I wouldn't go that far.

- I have heard a rip sounding better than the original CD, when comparing the DS to the equivalent Linn CDP.

Now I'm happy to admit that not everyone will think as I do, but that doesn't matter....all I'm trying to do, is get you to put it on your radar and try it at some stage with your kit, when your wallet has had time to recover.

You system deserves a great source, and I think you might be surprised at the difference it can make.
 

SteveR750

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There are a few Akurate DSs on the bay at the moment, most new at £3k+ so it's going to be a hefty investment.

I don't find spotify warmer than the PC source, just slightly less detailed, more splashy treble and not quite as sharp, but remember I have a very smooth sounding system anyway.

NB yes one of the biggest drawbacks of a PC as a source is the interference from the PSU. Despite the efforts of J River to strive for bit perfection, the PC clearly imposes significant levels of distortion, even if superimposed over rather than changing the original music signal
 
T

the record spot

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Given that the thing about a "quality source" is as much governed by the source files you're going to play on it as the hardware itself, this is going to be something of a lottery to some extent. Certainly, something I found that over the years it was increasingly important to become as aware about who was behind the mixing or mastering desk as much as who was on the business end of the mike.
 

moon

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the record spot said:
Given that the thing about a "quality source" is as much governed by the source files you're going to play on it as the hardware itself, this is going to be something of a lottery to some extent. Certainly, something I found that over the years it was increasingly important to become as aware about who was behind the mixing or mastering desk as much as who was on the business end of the mike.

I think who's behind the mixing and mastering is about 95% of sound quality with a few % for Acosutics and some for other equations like source quality and hifi equipment.
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
There are a few Akurate DSs on the bay at the moment, most new at £3k+ so it's going to be a hefty investment.

Due to the law of diminishing returns, its worth seeing where in the range, the value point is...for me that was the Majik DS. It is half the price of the Akurate, with (imo) around 80% of the performance... http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/streamer-league-table
 
T

the record spot

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For sure; if I know that the likes of Barry Diament, Bernie Grundman, Zal Schreiber or Joe Gastwirt's been involved, then I can relax about how it's going to sound. There's a few others too, Nick Davis would've been up there but for the hatchet job that was the 1976-1982 Genesis SACD boxset. His work with XTC on Nonsuch however was impressive.
 

SteveR750

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I'd agree, a well produced recording played at 160kbs is much more enjoyable than something poorly done at 24/96. The problem with most modern music is that any ambience is added electronically, as most stuff is recorded close mic'd in deadish studios. When you do come across a band being recorded (Keb Mo for example) playing together and not accompanying the track in headphones then thre sense of spatial awareness and realism is fantastic. I have recorded tracks using adobe audition which is a multi track software recoirding programme for the PC, and after mixing down to the final track sounds as 3D and as "big" as any modern rock album I have heard, well pretty close anway.
 

SteveR750

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CnoEvil said:
SteveR750 said:
There are a few Akurate DSs on the bay at the moment, most new at £3k+ so it's going to be a hefty investment.

Due to the law of diminishing returns, its worth seeing where in the range, the value point is...for me that was the Majik DS. It is half the price of the Akurate, with (imo) around 80% of the performance... http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/streamer-league-table

The sneaky looks intersting at £850 ish. What about the new CA that JD was hiding under his sig for a while...?
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
The sneaky looks intersting at £850 ish. What about the new CA that JD was hiding under his sig for a while...?

The Sneaky is great (the best vfm thing Linn makes), but I can't comment on the CA. If I was to guess (can be dangerous), I would expect to prefer the Linn's presentation.....CA's sound generally doesn't suit my ear.
 

SteveR750

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Thing is, I just want a streamer. I don't want the DAC, the power amp and all the extra stuff, just a simple pure clean streamer, with a remote control system that doesnt rely on the vagaries of my home network / wireless router
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
Thing is, I just want a streamer. I don't want the DAC, the power amp and all the extra stuff, just a simple pure clean streamer, with a remote control system that doesnt rely on the vagaries of my home network / wireless router

That's perfectly understandable....it's just that I've yet to hear a source anywhere near the price of the Sneaky, that sounds as good. It only makes sense if you use its own dac (internal amp can be switched off).

It really needs to be hard wired to the NAS, and control (at least for me) is not a problem (iThingy and laptop).

Any Linn dealer will let you see/try this for yourself, so a judgement can be made.
 

SteveR750

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Cno you are a bad influence. Ive started looking at what streamers are out there and what I might expect. I have to admit I have a thing about NAD stuf (it's irrational, like Alfa Romeo) so the C446 looked veery interesting, until I read that it will only stream up to 24/48, so rendering the 96 k stuff obsolete. It might not actually be a problem, but I'd never know, so for me is a deal killer, and surprised that WHF seemed to have missed this. Anyway for me it's a deal killer.

So, a sneaky without the DAC. Now for me, Roksan is the new NAD; similar attributes in many ways - not the most aesthetic looking stuff, the figures don't tell the full story, and a big stonking presentation married to subtle delicacy. Thinking about it then, I really really want Roksan to make a streamer and a DAC, come on Reuben you know it makes sense!
 

CnoEvil

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SteveR750 said:
Cno you are a bad influence. ...

...I do my best. >)

There are a few "stand out" products that I've heard at their price, and the Sneaky is one of them. Its amp is much better than you'd expect, but it's as a streamer, where it really shines.
 

SteveR750

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tino said:
SteveR750 said:
... it's irrational, like Alfa Romeo ...

:shame: .. irrational no, cool and different from the UK norm ... yes 8)

We know that, but you know how it is. Anyway Alfas stopped being cool after the 'sud (which was an irrational purchase because it did fall apart very quickly, both of them, and the 33 I had after them).
 

acalex

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SteveR750 said:
tino said:
SteveR750 said:
... it's irrational, like Alfa Romeo ...

:shame: .. irrational no, cool and different from the UK norm ... yes 8)

We know that, but you know how it is. Anyway Alfas stopped being cool after the 'sud (which was an irrational purchase because it did fall apart very quickly, both of them, and the 33 I had after them).

You had an Alfa 33? Nice ;)

Just to add some negative influence...I have heard myself the Sneaky and the Majik and they did sound good. With Majik being quite a remarkable step up from the Sneaky. It also looks very nice...Haven't heard the Akurate, but that might happen very soon. I want to build a personal opinion on how the Linn DS full range of products perform on my personal scale.
I will share with you the results of course ;)
 

CnoEvil

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acalex said:
Just to add some negative influence...I have heard myself the Sneaky and the Majik and they did sound good. With Majik being quite a remarkable step up from the Sneaky.

The Majik was always better, but when the Dynamik power supply was introduced, the gap got substantially wider, as the Sneaky isn't a modular design, so couldn't have it fitted.

It was suggested at the time by some, that a Majik with Dynamik, sounded as good as the Akurate without one. If you wanted to upgrade, it cost something like £450. This switch mode power supply does such a good job, that it's my only piece of kit that isn't improved by using a better mains lead.
 

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