Bi-Wire, waste of time???

[professorhat]

[quote user="gpi"]I do not want to hear what? [/quote]

Err, you said yourself you were fed up with hearing 'try before you buy'. Since that's the whole ethos behind buying hi-fi equipment, Clare politely suggested you try another forum.

After all, we wouldn't want you to become 'fed up'.

 

[Anonymous]

I think I should create a new thread and let you guys continue your debate......

All I was looking for was a simple Yes or No.

An OPINION

I think GPI has some very valid points (Washing Machines!!) but also agree with Clare's listen before you buy, but as I said previously it can be difficult when shops just want to sell their stock and bad mouth any other cable they don't sell.
The main reason I'm on this kind of forum to get an insight from Hi-Fi Enthusiasts, Professionals & Journalists.

There you go, I'll leave you to it.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]The nearer your cables are to having no losses (zero resistance) the less point there is in bi-wiring, because it's directly connected together anyway. If you notice a difference you need better cables.[/quote]

True if cables were hypothetical objects with only the only physical property of real linear resistance and the signal was carried by electrons down the said hypothetical object.

Sadly such an object does not naturally exist in our universe. Superconductors almost fit the bill except that they are at present impracticable and have certain quantum effects which may or may not be desirable.

Firstly the signals cables carry are in the form of EM fields that surround the cable. These are directly coupled to the small scale movements of the electrons in the cable. The cable its self is made from material which has a crystal structure, the boundaries of which prevent/interfere with any long range movement of said electrons

If you assume that signal transmission down a cable is purely the long range (the length of the cable) movement of electrons and then do an analysis of the max power possible you will find that its very small and not enough to drive a speaker.

Cables have (by virture of the materials, structure/geometry etc...) an impedance which is made up of capacitive and inductive components (and possible semiconductor or non ohmic components as well). These are variable in nature in that they are also frequency dependent. This impedance is in addition to the real resistance (zero or otherwise).

The principles of bi wiring are based in separating modulations between high and low frequency modulation
generated by the action of the crossover/driver. Having zero resistance cable dose little to help this.

 

[professorhat]

Is it a full moon again?!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]

The principles of bi wiring are based in separating modulations between high and low frequency modulation
generated by the action of the crossover/driver. Having zero resistance cable dose little to help this.
[/quote]

I'm no expert but a reputable dealer did mention B-Wire is for Bi-Amping rather than Speakers.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Apologies, ssvirk, that your thread got hijacked by the increasingly tedious cable-naysayers, but hopefully we can get back to business now.

In your set-up, i'd try the Chord Crimson and the new Chord Carnival Silver Screen speaker cable (£6/m) we test in this month's issue - out today. I'd worry about biwiring at a later date, once you're happy with the sound you're getting after the initial cable change.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Clare,

I'm overcome with a sense of CALM and RELIEF....aaaahhhhhh

I spoke to somebody yesterday who recommended this combo, but they also suggested the Chord Rumour (Single) as an option.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]Try it and see and then post your opinion. Leave the speaker links off, have a listen, put the links back and listen again.[/quote]

I totally agree!

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="ssvirk"]Thanks Clare,

I'm overcome with a sense of CALM and RELIEF....aaaahhhhhh

I spoke to somebody yesterday who recommended this combo, but they also suggested the Chord Rumour (Single) as an option.

[/quote] I don't think you need to spend as much as the Rumour - at @£10/m - with your set-up. The Carnival Silver Screen (£6/m) should be more than sufficient.

 

[Anonymous]

.[quote user="gpi"][quote user="Clare Newsome"]

[quote user="gpi"]. I am fed up with hearing the 'try before you buy' cop-out and 'let your ears decide', which do nothing to excuse or back up the marketing spiel.[/quote]

If you don't want to hear it, you may prefer another Forum, [/quote] I do not want to hear what? Actually yes you're right. In future I will only post on fairly managed public forums that support and encourage free speech, [/quote]

BYE BYE then. lets face it do u you test drive a car before you hand over your money? i rest my case.

 

[Anton90125]

Its easier to trust you ears. Take a bit of care in how you do the test ie blind testing is advisable. Suck it an see. After all no one is forcing anyone to biwire, If you can hear a difference then its worth pursuing. If not then get a good quality (chosen by pre audition) single cable.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]I don't think you need to spend as much as the Rumour - at @£10/m - with your set-up. The Carnival Silver Screen (£6/m) should be more than sufficient.[/quote]

Thanks Clare,

Would you recommend Banana Plugs ? Or are they JUST for convenience ?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]
Its easier to trust you ears. Take a bit of care in how you do the test ie blind testing is advisable. Suck it an see. After all no one is forcing anyone to biwire, If you can hear a difference then its worth pursuing. If not then get a good quality (chosen by pre audition) single cable.
[/quote]

I agree Anton,

Thanks

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="professorhat"]Is it a full moon again?![/quote]

How - el !!!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="ssvirk"]Will do MasterBluster, Thanks

Any OPINION o n the cables & wires matey?[/quote]

I currently use 6mm copper multistrand that I bought on ebay for £2 per metre which sound great. Someone recommended it somewhere, I can't remember where. It's a lot of copper for your money and sure beats the hell out of the Monster stuff I was using.

 

[Anonymous]

Hey MB,

Did you buy your cable from ebay member "Straighthru" by any chance.

Couple of people on another forum recommended these, but I can't find them.

Do you remember who you bought off?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="ssvirk"]Hey MB,

Did you buy your cable from ebay member "Straighthru" by any chance.

Couple of people on another forum recommended these, but I can't find them.

Do you remember who you bought off?[/quote]

It was a while ago now. The cable sold by Mostwanted-productsshop looks like the same.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]The cable sold by Mostwanted-productsshop looks like the same[/quote]

Hey, have you got a link you can post please?

 

[Anonymous]

Found it : Mostwanted-products

What am I looking for exactly ??

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with Clare give cables a chance at home if you dont like them send them back, I think that for me cables can make a difference without buying new hardware.

 

[gpi]

[quote user="bobbys"].[quote user="gpi"][quote user="Clare Newsome"]

[quote user="gpi"]. I am fed up with hearing the 'try before you buy' cop-out and 'let your ears decide', which do nothing to excuse or back up the marketing spiel.[/quote]

If you don't want to hear it, you may prefer another Forum, [/quote] I do not want to hear what? Actually yes you're right. In future I will only post on fairly managed public forums that support and encourage free speech, [/quote]

BYE BYE then. lets face it do u you test drive a car before you hand over your money? i rest my case.[/quote]

That's a very silly analogy. I use a car everyday to get from A to B, I don't do the same with cables between hi-fi components. Maybe if I wanted to change a HT lead, but I wouldn't try it first I'd just buy it? Enjoy wasting your money on over-priced cables that make no difference to the sound of your gear. If my anti-foo cable views are not welcome, as they clearly are not, no one can fairly debate any subject, let alone cables, and this is not a balanced FORUM. I suppose I'll be banned now, for what reason should be made clear as I haven't insulted anyone.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[Clare Newsome]

Everyone can fairly debate any subject here - which is why we have many, many threads up here including opinions like yours such as:

[quote user="gpi"] Enjoy wasting your money on over-priced cables that make no difference to the sound of your gear. If my anti-foo cable views are not welcome, as they clearly are not, no one can fairly debate any subject, let alone cables, and this is not a balanced FORUM.
[/quote]

That is then being balanced by the views of ourselves and others who believe some (if not all) cables can make a difference.

I also find it ironic that you're accusing us of being unbalanced when the very ethos we're promoting is for everyone to form their own opinions via listening/viewing themselves - that to me would seem the very epitome of balance.

And of course you're not being banned - we've had to ban very, very few people on these Forums, and that's because of repeated breaches of House Rules on personal attacks, defamation etc.

 

[professorhat]

No one said you couldn't express your views. It's just that you said you were fed up hearing about our views, which doesn't really lend itself to free speech...

I, for one, am fed up with this argument, so shall not be posting on this thread any more!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="Masterbluster"]The nearer your cables are to having no losses (zero resistance) the less point there is in bi-wiring, because it's directly connected together anyway. If you notice a difference you need better cables.[/quote]

The principles of bi wiring are based in separating modulations between high and low frequency modulation
generated by the action of the crossover/driver. Having zero resistance cable dose little to help this.

[/quote]

Not so. If you have zero resistance cable any problems with the signal will be the same on the speaker connections whether you bi-wire or not.

 

[Anton90125]

I have no problem with anyone having an opinion different to mine.

What I have a problem is when a set of stated facts are claimed to be pseudo science but then there is no attempt to explain why? To make any kind of claim like that, you should be in a position to explain your reasoning at a appropriate level.
If you dispute the science, then you must be prepared to explain in scientific terms why the "stated fact" is actually incorrect.

[quote user="gpi"]If my anti-foo cable views are not welcome, as they clearly are not, no one can fairly debate any subject, let alone cables, and this is not a balanced FORUM.[/quote]

A debate is more the one side "saying yes it is" and the other side saying "no it isn't". Both sides need to put together reasons for point of view, which means a lot more then stating "pseudo-science claptrap". In the examples you latter gave, you never explained why in scientific terms why you thought they were suspect. Without this input there is no means of any of us to continuing a debate.

I think its a bit unfair to call this FORUM unbalanced (for lack of fair debate) when YOU are not actually debating, just simply stating in blanket terms what are very general and unreasoned statements.