Bi-Wire, waste of time???

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I'm in the market for some new cable.

Hearing conflicting views regarding bi-wiring

Couple of shops saying yes most definitely the way to go.
Couple of others say waste of time & dependent on length of wire too

???

Please Help

 

[d_a_n1979]

Only you can be the judge of that

You really could do with sitting down and listening to your system bi-wired and single wired.

To be honmest though, with your amp/CDP combo and speakers, you wont really reap any benefits so i'd just single wire and whoever youre getting the wire off, aks them to make some jumpers for you to replace the standard speaker connection bars.

 

[Thaiman]

I don't think buying double lenght gonna make much of a different (if anything at all in my experirnced) however many people seem to like Biwired cables, Anton do swear by them. If you can try before buy

 

[Anonymous]

Just spoke to a chap who say bi-wire is meant for Bi-Amping

Where 1 amp drives the Mid & treble

& the other Amp drives to Bass.

???

 

[Anonymous]

Well....I dont have the best system in the world (all in less than a grand) but bi-wiring certainly makes a difference. Swapped between bi-wire and single wire 2 or 3 times and every time bi-wire beats single wire.

Bi-wire opens everything up and creates a much less boxy sound.

Hope that helps with your decision

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your replies guys.

Any opinion on the Wire & Interconnects (from my other post):

Chord Co. Carnival Silver Plus + Chord Co. Crimson

Chord Co. Rumour (Single) + Chord Co. Crimson

QED Silver Anniversary XT + QED Performance 2

Supra Rondo 2x2.5 + Supra Dual

Van den Hul the Bridge + Van den Hul The Name

 

[gpi]

why pay more for pseudo-science claptrap?

 

[Anonymous]

If you use thick enough cabling biwiring makes no difference.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="gpi"]why pay more for pseudo-science claptrap?[/quote]

I was told Silver wire gives a brighter sound, which I prefer.

Do you think there's any truth in that

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Fr0g,

What do you think of the budget combinations I've listed above and in the other post?

Thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe I've got the terminology wrong??

I like to hear a crisp Top End but also like the smooth & Low Bottom End.

What sound is that then?

Will give the MS902's a run, how much are they?

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="gpi"] why pay more for pseudo-science claptrap?[/quote]

Why do you call it pseudo science? I trust that you have some science to back that up?

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Masterbluster"]
If you use thick enough cabling biwiring makes no difference.

[/quote]

This is something Oldphrt used to say. Each to his own. However in my experience I have always heard a difference.

 

[gpi]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="gpi"] why pay more for pseudo-science claptrap?[/quote]

Why do you call it pseudo science? I trust that you have some science to back that up?
[/quote]

This pseudo-science:

*** speaker cable consists of thirty-eight conductors of 99.999999% OFC.... Each conductor is separately encapsulated in extruded Teflon. ***** is normally terminated with 19 conductors per channel. This cable can be ordered terminated for bi-wiring. It provides a level of detail that is outstanding. Its ability to properly control loudspeaker performance is superb. It transmits signals at over 95% the speed of light. Every fine nuance of the musical performance is revealed....

Both very flexible signal conductors consist of 98 strands of high purity dense silver coated - high purity Matched Crystal Oxygen Free Copper (OFC). This high quality composition maintains signal integrity and provides maximum durability. Signal quality that lasts! The low loop resistance of 0.018 Ohm/m (and its low parallel capacitance of 35 pF/m) allows your amplifier to maintain full control over your speaker drivers' movements. Solid and tight bass, as well as natural, open and nonfatiguing mids and highs are yours to enjoy!

The **** design incorporates a number of unique features which widen its field of application and improve performance compared to regular twin lead loudspeaker cables: The cable is equipped with a heavy shield. The signal leads are placed in a so-called star quad configuration. The cable contains a separate central ground lead which is intended to serve as ground connection between loudspeaker cabinet and amplifier ground.
The above mentioned design features avoid possible audio signal interference caused by external electromagnetic noise radiating into your power amplifier' signal (feedback) path, entering through the loudspeaker lines.
Furthermore, when using digital (switchmode) power amplifiers, any radiation of residual noise from the loudspeaker lines is prevented. As such, these measures help to keep your system's noise floor down, thereby allowing it to reveal more detail.

Which descriptive text above is for £6.00 per metre speaker cable, which is describing £100 per metre cable and which is from £250 per metre cable? I presume they all use 'oxygen-free copper' whatever that is.

BTW, I don't have to disprove the claims of the cable manufacturers; it is up to them to prove to me their wires will improve the performance of my system simply by spending more on the wires that connect them.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Yes, marketing blurb - but that doesn't mean they don't work

As noted more than once elsewhere, we have challenged cable manufacturers about their claims/language.

We recommend that - like us - people ignore the overblown descriptions and just try the products (which is simple as many cables are available on money-back guarantee/via a loan from a dealer/friend).

If they hear a difference (ideally in a blind test, as we conduct our testing), and they like that difference, they can decide whether to buy or not. If they don't (hear it or like it) then they don't have to. Simple.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare,

I was told my sound preference is "Bright", but I like crisp Treble AND Deep Bass too.

What is this type of sound called?

 

[gpi]

[quote user="ssvirk"]Clare,

I was told my sound preference is "Bright", but I like crisp Treble AND Deep Bass too.

What is this type of sound called?[/quote]

broad, expansive, full?

When considering which cables to buy don't forget about the bog-standard ones you can't see on the other side of the terminals, i.e. the skinny wires the manufacturers see fit to use. Maybe you should replace those too with 'better' cable. I am fed up with hearing the 'try before you buy' cop-out and 'let your ears decide', which do nothing to excuse or back up the marketing spiel.

 

[gpi]

[quote user="ssvirk"][quote user="gpi"]why pay more for pseudo-science claptrap?[/quote]

I was told Silver wire gives a brighter sound, which I prefer.

Do you think there's any truth in that[/quote]

Well, silver has a bright appearance and copper is matt and dull so obviously they must sound different. No? ;o)

 

[Clare Newsome]

[quote user="gpi"]. I am fed up with hearing the 'try before you buy' cop-out and 'let your ears decide', which do nothing to excuse or back up the marketing spiel.[/quote]

If you don't want to hear it, you may prefer another Forum, because we've always stressed (and will continue to) the importance of auditioning products before you buy, and choosing the kit that best suits your musical tastes, system and budget. We're here to help you start on a shortlist of what to try, but continue to urge everyone to take their own wants/needs into account.

This seems an eminently more sensible way of deciding which product to buy than by perusing marketing spiel! If you spent your life intently studying all the blurb for products - from cars to washing powder to (yes) cables, you'd go insane.

Try looking, listening and - most importantly of all - enjoying music and movies rather than getting so disproportionately angry about these things.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="gpi"] why pay more for pseudo-science claptrap?[/quote]

Why do you call it pseudo science? I trust that you have some science to back that up?

[/quote]

The nearer your cables are to having no losses (zero resistance) the less point there is in bi-wiring, because it's directly connected together anyway. If you notice a difference you need better cables.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="gpi"]BTW, I don't have to disprove the claims of the cable[/quote]

No you don't but you do have explain in scientific terms why something is not real science (pseudo-science claptrap), after all this is your claim.

*** speaker cable consists of thirty-eight conductors of 99.999999% OFC.... Each conductor is separately encapsulated in extruded Teflon. ***** is normally terminated with 19 conductors per channel. This cable can be ordered terminated for bi-wiring. It provides a level of detail that is outstanding. Its ability to properly control loudspeaker performance is superb. It transmits signals at over 95% the speed of light. Every fine nuance of the musical performance is revealed....

What part of this is not real science? I take it you understand cable transmission technology to accurately explain why its pseudo science with reference to any theory,scientific papers etc..

Both very flexible signal conductors consist of 98 strands of high purity dense silver coated - high purity Matched Crystal Oxygen Free Copper (OFC). This high quality composition maintains signal integrity and provides maximum durability. Signal quality that lasts! The low loop resistance of 0.018 Ohm/m (and its low parallel capacitance of 35 pF/m) allows your amplifier to maintain full control over your speaker drivers' movements. Solid and tight bass, as well as natural, open and nonfatiguing mids and highs are yours to enjoy!

Why is this also pseudo science? Do you not think low resistance is important or relevent? Are you aware that high capacitance cables can cause certain amplifiers to become unstable?

You are entitled to an opinion but when you openly dispute a fact you must have some evidence to back it up. You are probably right that there are a lot of dubious claims but there are some accurate claims as well. To make a blanked statement "pseudo-science claptrap?" (ie you are attacking the physics involved) requires good relevant knowledge of the physics, otherwise how can you separate the wheat from the chaff?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Clare, MasterBluster & Anton,

So in YOUR OPINION is b-wire everything that it is made out to be? Good or Bad ?

& in your learned OPINION


Chord Co. Carnival Silver Plus + Chord Co. Crimson

Chord Co. Rumour (Single) + Chord Co. Crimson

QED Silver Anniversary XT + QED Performance 2

Supra Rondo 2x2.5 + Supra Dual

Van den Hul the Bridge + Van den Hul The Name

Or any other budget alternatives: £10 / metre Speaker Cable & upto £50 Interconnect.


Obviously, As Always, I will be trying to demo them but it can be difficult if the shop doesn't do a couple of the options above.

Just trying to gauge some options to try and then decide for myself.

Please be gentle.....THANKS

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="ssvirk"]Hi Clare, MasterBluster & Anton,

So in your OPINION is b-wire everything that it is made out to be? Good or Bad ?

[/quote]

Try it and see and then post your opinion. Leave the speaker links off, have a listen, put the links back and listen again.

On mine it made no difference so I left the links on and the double run of wire in place.

 

[Anonymous]

Will do MasterBluster, Thanks

Any OPINION o n the cables & wires matey?

 

[gpi]

[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
[quote user="gpi"]. I am fed up with hearing the 'try before you buy' cop-out and 'let your ears decide', which do nothing to excuse or back up the marketing spiel.[/quote]

If you don't want to hear it, you may prefer another Forum,[/quote]

I do not want to hear what? Actually yes you're right. In future I will only post on fairly managed public forums that support and encourage free speech, that includes opposing views and healthy debate, not just the views of the administration.

because we've always stressed (and will continue to) the importance of auditioning products before you buy, and choosing the kit that best suits your musical tastes, system and budget. We're here to help you start on a shortlist of what to try, but continue to urge everyone to take their own wants/needs into account.

This seems an eminently more sensible way of deciding which product to buy than by perusing marketing spiel!

This applies to components largely but how many people audition cable? It's the marketing blurb that informs the decision in the vast majority of cases.

If you spent your life intently studying all the blurb for products - from cars to washing powder to (yes) cables, you'd go insane.

Try looking, listening and - most importantly of all - enjoying music and movies rather than getting so disproportionately angry about these things.

Personally I like to do some research into what I'm spending my money on. I would not buy anything without reading what it is I'm buying, that would be foolhardy. Who do you know who walks into an electrical retailers and buys a washing machine without reading its spec? PS. Apologies to the opening poster for this on his thread, bye,