best speakers to use with onkyo 5009?

[markyboy156]

hi i have the onkyo 5009 amp i want to no what would be the perfect partner 5.1 speaker package for this amp would the monitor audio apex 5.1 be good enougth or any other package that you can recommend thanks can somebody please reply asap please

 

[Frank Harvey]

I presume you want to keep the speakers relatively small?

 

[markyboy156]

yes i would like to keep the speakers small to medium size

 

[Frank Harvey]

What size is your room?

The Apex will be pretty much as good as you'll get. The main alternative would be to look at smaller bookshelf speakers and build up a 5.1 system that way. At a similar price point, you could put together a KEF R100 package, or an MA RX1 package. There will be benefits and drawbacks of all these packages, it's just deciding which you like the sound of and which you can accommodate. This type of system is becoming more popular - partly because they're generally better, and also because of a greater choice of colours.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry to jump on the thread, but what speakers would you recommend if size was no issue?( I am considering this same amp) My room is 4.4m wide by 7.5m long rectangle with screen on the narrower wall. Considering a 7.1 system rather than 5.1, and a budget up to £5000 absolute tops for speakers alone. I want this room pounding with earth shaking sound!

Cheers

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Duplicate post-sorry!

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think it would depend on what sort of package you're looking for. You can either build a package around some floorstanders, as is the popular method, or a standmount package adhering to THX guidelines (same speakers all round).

Unfortunately I've ran out of time at the moment, but I'll asnwer as soon as I can.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks David, look forward to you reply.

I was initially thinking about stand mounts, but now have significantly upped my budget and don't want to be having to upgrade any time soon so am looking for room filling sound with no compromises. So if this means floor standers I'm happy with that. Would like 7.1 but the speakers to the sides of the listening position, if stand mounted, may block the way a bit. I will have 2 arm chairs in the main listening position 3-3.5m back from the screen, and a 3 more directly behind. Still have to decide on the 3009 or the 5009 too...(BD player will be a oppo 93 or 95 and the PJ a Sony VPL95)

Hope that helps.

Steve

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

I want this room pounding with earth shaking sound!

A big bad boy sub will give you the bass. KEF R300s at the front and back with a R600 centre and a Paradigm Sub12 would be a good starting point.

 

[v1c]

MK Sound 950+ surround system.

Now extremly limited dealer wise but well worth the effort to source.

You will be hard pushed to find anything to beat MK for movies.

 

[Frank Harvey]

MK Sound 950+ surround system.

Now extremly limited dealer wise but well worth the effort to source.

You will be hard pushed to find anything to beat MK for movies.

Thngs aren't as cut and dried as they used to be v1c. I tried various speakers out to replace my old MK's, and struggled. But in the R series I found a worthy replacement. The UniQ has many benefits for AV, and this is easy to demonstrate, even with KEF's more budget speaker packages. Other than being streets ahead as far as music is concerned, they (R300's) sound more three dimensional than my old MK S150's, and are easier to drive. They're also sweeter sounding, and perform great at any volume.

Sorry to jump on the thread, but what speakers would you recommend if size was no issue?( I am considering this same amp) My room is 4.4m wide by 7.5m long rectangle with screen on the narrower wall. Considering a 7.1 system rather than 5.1, and a budget up to £5000 absolute tops for speakers alone. I want this room pounding with earth shaking sound!

I have to say Nick's recommendation is a strong one, and not one I can argue with. Although for me, the term "I want this room pounding with earth shaking sound!" is open to interpretation. What one person sees as "earth shaking", another might see as a "tickle"

If your "earth shaking" is anything like mine, you'll have to be enlisting the duties of two serious subwoofers, and looking at a pre/processor and power amp combination to recreate the immense soundtracks that some movies have nowadays with headroom to spare.

The reason I say this is that we're on the verge of an AV evolution (some might say revolution) with 4K2K. Anyone looking at putting together a quality home cinema system now will have to decide if 4K2K is going to be playing a part in their future plans - if so, it's something to take into consideration. No doubt, along with ultra HD video will come ultra HD audio too, both of which will involve less compression, and wider dynamic range. Is this something you want to take into account? Or do you just want to get the best system you can right now, fit and forget?

 

[v1c]

I respect what you have to say David...... but you not keen on MK now are you ?.

I was really just offering an alternative suggestion..... is there any truth in Onkyo using MK when testing/desgining AV as suggested on the MK sound website ?.

On a different subject I asked you a question on subthing interesting (two actually) have you noticed ? you not answered.

 

[Anonymous]

By room shaking I do want good bass, but also clarity and balance. I dont want flabby bass! I want the room to really feel like there are explosions going off when being shown in the film. I want to blow away pals that come round for a beer and wach a film. I have been recommended the MK 950 before, but as they are stand mounted I thought I would see if there are floorstanders that can match or better them.

I have been recommended the Onkyo 3009 or 5009 so will choose which Evers most suitable. I want to make sure the room is well filled with sound, the walls will all be clad with 50mm insulation rockwool behind a black fabric, so will sound pretty dead. The ceiling will be 1/2" ply with the same black material stapled to them, the floor, concrete with thick underlay and carpet.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry David, forgot to answer you about the4k thing. How will the revolution affect my choice now? Am I right in thinking that 4k is going to take a few years to become mainstream? I'd be looking at getting 5-10years before any serious upgrades...

Steve

 

[Frank Harvey]

I respect what you have to say David...... but you not keen on MK now are you ?.

Don't get me wrong v1c, I still like the M&K sound, and I still like what they do, but I've been trying for years to find out why I couldn't find hi-fi speakers to do what M&K/MK did. I did find out part of the reason, but still couldn't find anything. As I mentioned earlier, a couple of manufacturers have taken quite a step forward with their speaker design over the past year or two, and we're now seeing ranges emerge that can match the MK's for detail retrieval, and better them for delicacy and finesse. some will say that I would say this as we're no longer MK dealers, but if that was really the case, I'd have said this two years ago when our partnership ended. Why would I wait two years just to say I've found something better? I've genuinely wanted to find something that didn't even have to better them, they only had to sound as good. Finally, I've found something. Maybe two manufacturers actually, as one stunned me late last year with their new speakers in an AV setup, and that wasn't even with the dedicated centre...

I will be interested to see how Ken Kreisel can better his original designs though - if anyone is going to be able to improve on them, it'll be the guy who knows them inside out.

I was really just offering an alternative suggestion..... is there any truth in Onkyo using MK when testing/desgining AV as suggested on the MK sound website ?.

I appreciate that v1c, and that suggestion still stands. I was only pointing out that the performance difference between hi-fi and AV speakers has changed recently, so it's not so cut and dried

On a different subject I asked you a question on subthing interesting (two actually) have you noticed ? you not answered.

Sorry, I didn't see this - do you have a link? (thread subscription please WHF!!)

 

[Frank Harvey]

By room shaking I do want good bass, but also clarity and balance. I dont want flabby bass! I want the room to really feel like there are explosions going off when being shown in the film. I want to blow away pals that come round for a beer and wach a film. I have been recommended the MK 950 before, but as they are stand mounted I thought I would see if there are floorstanders that can match or better them.

I personally never got on that well with the 950's. They sounded good, but I always preferred the 150's,and even the 750's.

Nobody wants flabby bass. It might impress some people, but the novelty of oodles of soft warm bass soon wear off. I would generally look at sealed subs, as these tend to naturally offer a more even in room response than ported ones, but because of this, won't quite reach down as deep. It's partly down to quality as well, but sealed subs offer greater control, and therefore, greater dexterity. A loose sounding sub can lack punch, and therefore detail, and sound soft.

I have been recommended the Onkyo 3009 or 5009 so will choose which Evers most suitable. I want to make sure the room is well filled with sound, the walls will all be clad with 50mm insulation rockwool behind a black fabric, so will sound pretty dead. The ceiling will be 1/2" ply with the same black material stapled to them, the floor, concrete with thick underlay and carpet.

Stopping sound reflection is a good idea in theory, but be careful not to deaden the room too much. This can completely rob the life out of a room, and it can get to a point where it doesn't matter how good a system you put in it, it'll never sound good. The deader the room is, the more powerful the system needs to be because there's so much absorption going on. Wide dispersion speakers would be needed too - they generally are for AV anyway - narrower dispersion speakers will make the system sound like you've got five or seven separate channels rather than a soundfield going on.

I would allow a little bit of reflection in certain places. If you play a little mini system or iPod dock in a heavily furnished living room, it won't go very loud, and if it does, the volume will be turned up quite high. Play the same thing in your kitchen at the same volume, and the resulting sound is much more room filling, and it'll sound louder too. I'm not saying kit your AV room out as a kitchen, but if you take that extreme, you might be able to see where I'm going with it. Sound travels when it's reflected, but it doesn't when it's dampened. Finding the right compromise there will help you reach higher volumes without pushing the equipment so hard, and playing everything so loud.

I would probably need to see some pics of the room, and get some more accurate measurements for better recommendations, but if you're aiming for the sound I have in my head based on your description (if you follow that!), then I'm afraid the current budget won't quite be sufficient. Headroom is the key word here.

 

[v1c]

Greenblood , the 950's will be avaliable as a floorstander sometime this year hopefully, along with 3 new THX subwoofers again sometime this year so worth keeping an eye on.

David i'll have to have a listen to be converted Link :- www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/subthing-interesting

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sorry David, forgot to answer you about the4k thing. How will the revolution affect my choice now? Am I right in thinking that 4k is going to take a few years to become mainstream? I'd be looking at getting 5-10years before any serious upgrades...

In an AV system, speakers and amplification generally don't change all that much, and choosing well now will allow you to get a good 10 years out of them if necessary. Processors and the processing sections of AV amps get updated every year, and knowing a good dealer in this respect generally has benefits for the regular customer (I can't really say too much on here about that). As it stands, there hasn't really been much change in processors since the current HD codecs from Bluray were catered for, but now we're on the 4K2K doorstep, this will bring new sound formats that will accompany the new 4K Bluray format, supposedly available some time next year. I would say we're roughly about 2 years away from £5,000 4K2K home cinema projectors. If this is something you want to get into, then it's worth taking into consideration. If you're not bothered, or wouldnt be bothered by it for another 5 years, then forget everything I said about it and just get a system and enjoy yourself

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry David, forgot to answer you about the4k thing. How will the revolution affect my choice now? Am I right in thinking that 4k is going to take a few years to become mainstream? I'd be looking at getting 5-10years before any serious upgrades...

In an AV system, speakers and amplification generally don't change all that much, and choosing well now will allow you to get a good 10 years out of them if necessary. Processors and the processing sections of AV amps get updated every year, and knowing a good dealer in this respect generally has benefits for the regular customer (I can't really say too much on here about that). As it stands, there hasn't really been much change in processors since the current HD codecs from Bluray were catered for, but now we're on the 4K2K doorstep, this will bring new sound formats that will accompany the new 4K Bluray format, supposedly available some time next year. I would say we're roughly about 2 years away from £5,000 4K2K home cinema projectors. If this is something you want to get into, then it's worth taking into consideration. If you're not bothered, or wouldnt be bothered by it for another 5 years, then forget everything I said about it and just get a system and enjoy yourself

Hmm I'm not catching your drift here methinks! I want a good system now, mid to high end I'd say. Was thinking of a Sony vpl95, but could be persuaded by a Sony 30 which will free up some more budget for amp and speakers. Was thinking 2-3 k on amp and 4-7k on speakers though I'd really like 7.1. Oppo93 or95 for source.

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

By room shaking I do want good bass, but also clarity and balance. I dont want flabby bass! I want the room to really feel like there are explosions going off when being shown in the film. I want to blow away pals that come round for a beer and wach a film. I have been recommended the MK 950 before, but as they are stand mounted I thought I would see if there are floorstanders that can match or better them.

I personally never got on that well with the 950's. They sounded good, but I always preferred the 150's,and even the 750's.

Nobody wants flabby bass. It might impress some people, but the novelty of oodles of soft warm bass soon wear off. I would generally look at sealed subs, as these tend to naturally offer a more even in room response than ported ones, but because of this, won't quite reach down as deep. It's partly down to quality as well, but sealed subs offer greater control, and therefore, greater dexterity. A loose sounding sub can lack punch, and therefore detail, and sound soft.

I have been recommended the Onkyo 3009 or 5009 so will choose which Evers most suitable. I want to make sure the room is well filled with sound, the walls will all be clad with 50mm insulation rockwool behind a black fabric, so will sound pretty dead. The ceiling will be 1/2" ply with the same black material stapled to them, the floor, concrete with thick underlay and carpet.

Stopping sound reflection is a good idea in theory, but be careful not to deaden the room too much. This can completely rob the life out of a room, and it can get to a point where it doesn't matter how good a system you put in it, it'll never sound good. The deader the room is, the more powerful the system needs to be because there's so much absorption going on. Wide dispersion speakers would be needed too - they generally are for AV anyway - narrower dispersion speakers will make the system sound like you've got five or seven separate channels rather than a soundfield going on.

I would allow a little bit of reflection in certain places. If you play a little mini system or iPod dock in a heavily furnished living room, it won't go very loud, and if it does, the volume will be turned up quite high. Play the same thing in your kitchen at the same volume, and the resulting sound is much more room filling, and it'll sound louder too. I'm not saying kit your AV room out as a kitchen, but if you take that extreme, you might be able to see where I'm going with it. Sound travels when it's reflected, but it doesn't when it's dampened. Finding the right compromise there will help you reach higher volumes without pushing the equipment so hard, and playing everything so loud.

I would probably need to see some pics of the room, and get some more accurate measurements for better recommendations, but if you're aiming for the sound I have in my head based on your description (if you follow that!), then I'm afraid the current budget won't quite be sufficient. Headroom is the key word here.

No pics of room cus it ain't built yet...summer hopefully! Internals are4.4m wide by 7m long and 2.1m floor to ceiling. I was hoping that the reflections from the solid ceiling would help liven the room a tad, but it's not a problem to reduce the thick ness of the insulation on the walls or even mix it up a bit and loose some of the deadening as its hidden anyway.

I Like the idea of sealed subs, but wound Kef R series sub do ok in my room if I went R series?

Steve

 

[Frank Harvey]

Hmm I'm not catching your drift here methinks! I want a good system now, mid to high end I'd say. Was thinking of a Sony vpl95, but could be persuaded by a Sony 30 which will free up some more budget for amp and speakers. Was thinking 2-3 k on amp and 4-7k on speakers though I'd really like 7.1. Oppo93 or95 for source

Yeah, I think I started making a point and then didn't finish it!

My point was, speakers and amplification rarely change, so you can go wild with these products. Processing and vision products are continually improving. It's this area where you have spend more wisely.

If you are on a specific budget, and I were in your shoes, I would concentrate on getting the speakers and amplifier right - its these that are going to have to deliver the dynamics of a movie soundtrack, and fill your room effortlessly. For me, if it meant getting that right at the expense of the projector, that's the way it'd be. Projectors change every year - you can get the best for whatever price point you want at any time. I'd start off with something like an Epson Tw6000 at about £1350. Full 1080p and 3D. There's a few limitations because of the price, but looks great. Or you could pick up an outgoing model at a reduced price.

While I agree your room size will benefit from 7.1, I would stick to 5.1. Going 7.1 is just going to either add to your budget, or it'll mean you'll have to compromise elsewhere in your system if you stick to your budget. Our demo room is 5m x 5m, and we've tried many different systems and speaker packages, and I have no doubt that packages we've had work in our demo room will work in yours too. I just think what you're asking is going to take a little more budget than you have.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm happy to cOMPRAMISE on the pj for the time being, screen will be DIY unless a large screen can be bought for a sensible price. So amp and speakers are my main concern, happy to stick with 5.1 for the time being too.

So R series are the way forward then chaps? Is the sub man enough? Could a svs 12 or the like be used instead? Is there any gain to be had doing this? Ie the extra watts?

Steve

 

[Frank Harvey]

I don't think the R series sub is going to fill that size room with gut wrenching bass Steve, even mine will struggle to do that. I think you're going to have to go big, or possibly dual subs. For a single sub, I think you'd be looking about the £3k mark to fill that room. Properly, of course.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok so if one R series sub won't do the job, if I have one for now and buy another when budget allows, will that do the job? Solutions please... ;-)

Steve

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

One big sub rather than two smalls would be my choice. It depends on the timescale but I would scale back the rears to invest in a bigger sub now.